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Blue side advantage needs to go. It has been going on for too long.

After3perma··29 votes·16,743 views

Most of the games I play in solo queue or see in competitive is, the blue side will win majority of games. The only time the red side wins games is by some miracle that the blue side threw the game away and the red side can win, but in a normal game where there is no shenanigans or clown fiesta the blue side will win the game the majority of times.

Even if the red side has a better team comp, they will still lose because blue side has better advantages in map layout and other stuff, plus in competitive blue side also gets first pick and stuff like that. Also in jungler pathing, the blue side gets a better start with red buff with 2 people while the red side has to start on blue side with 2 people and loses the early ganking/dueling trades. Camera angles might also affect blue side win rate even if the camera is unlocked because you naturally see further on blue side than you do red side regardless of locked screen or unlocked screen and the UI blocking some of the red side view doesn't help.

Blue side has advantage in baron because there is no wall while the red side has to walk around.

One suggestion is remove the wall surrounding the dragon and baron pit and make it open for both sides. Another suggestion is in pick/ban, make the red side get first pick instead and leave the map how it is.

37 Comments

iPooUnicorns19 votes

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/blue-vs-red/na

UrPalAl1 votes

Thank you, I was looking for this

Frog goes moo7 votes

{quoted}

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/blue-vs-red/na

TLDR: Riot forces a 50 percent winrate on both sides by placing higher mmr teams on the side that is performing lower for the period. It's better to use better controlled environments such as LCS.

You're quoting solo queue where teamates are given from rng and there's a forced 50 percent winrate on both sides. Not both teams. BOTH SIDES. This stat doesn't mean that players as an individual play the same both blue side and red side. This only means that the system's forced 50 percent winrate for both sides is working.

Take for example. Blue side, for half of the week, has 3 percent more winrate than red side. For the rest of the week, or until red side's winrate almost equates to blue side again, they will place higher MMR teams on the red side to try to even it out.

This doesn't help either players.

A better source to go off of is a more controlled environment such as LCS stats here: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/blue-vs-red/lcs

**Where blue side wins 66 percent of the time. **

This is an environment where riot's system of "if blue's winrate is higher right now, put the higher mmr team on red" won't work because these teams are premade and are allowed to choose if they want to be red or blue side after a loss.

Don't let the forced 50 percent winrate fool you, because if you even look at bronze, where map position should affect winrate, due to bronze's usually playing with locked screen and having a clear disadvantage and many them knowing almost nothing about team comps and counterpicking, giving red side's advantage away, it still remains near 50. Because again, there's a forced side winrate. This is one of the main reasons why whenever many are talking about balancing a champion and someone brings up winrates, there will always be that one person that says "winrates don't mean anything." Because winrates can be inflated and lowered just due to blue or red side's equation status at the time.

Thank you for reading my bible of a comment.

Edit: spelling error and forgot some periods lol.

DrCyanide2 votes

I think it's interesting to look at the by Champion win rates by side. Many champions win more on Red side than on Blue, which doesn't mesh with the MMR balancing.

Also, don't trust their LCS stats right now, it looks like they've only got 6 games.

Frog goes moo1 votes

{quoted}

I think it's interesting to look at the by Champion win rates by side. Many champions win more on Red side than on Blue, which doesn't mesh with the MMR balancing.

Also, don't trust their LCS stats right now, it looks like they've only got 6 games.

Riot doesn't try to guess what champion you're trying to play next, if that's what you're saying. No they don't try to guess what you're going to play and then base the game's "expected loss/win" off of that, but if, let's say blue side has a 5 percent more winrate for the day, the matches will be more red side heavy with mmr, and if there are more people playing kat on red side for the day, kat's red side winrate would be higher for that day. It doesn't mean that the champion is stronger on red side, it just means for that period of time, red's winrate was artificially inflated.

**Not every champion will have the same winrate on each side because obviously, each champion isn't played at the same time. **

This only moderately affects the champion's side winrate. It's still reliant on the experience of the person with the champion on the side than anything else, but the more the stat deviates from the 50/50 the more games made with the forced 50 percent side winrate there will be.

charge attack1 votes

{quoted}

TLDR: Riot forces a 50 percent winrate on both sides by placing higher mmr teams on the side that is performing lower for the period. It's better to use better controlled environments such as LCS.

You're quoting solo queue where teamates are given from rng and there's a forced 50 percent winrate on both sides. Not both teams. BOTH SIDES. This stat doesn't mean that players as an individual play the same both blue side and red side. This only means that the system's forced 50 percent winrate for both sides is working.

Take for example. Blue side, for half of the week, has 3 percent more winrate than red side. For the rest of the week, or until red side's winrate almost equates to blue side again, they will place higher MMR teams on the red side to try to even it out.

This doesn't help either players.

A better source to go off of is a more controlled environment such as LCS stats here: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/blue-vs-red/lcs

**Where blue side wins 66 percent of the time. **

This is an environment where riot's system of "if blue's winrate is higher right now, put the higher mmr team on red" won't work because these teams are premade and are allowed to choose if they want to be red or blue side after a loss.

Don't let the forced 50 percent winrate fool you, because if you even look at bronze, where map position should affect winrate, due to bronze's usually playing with locked screen and having a clear disadvantage and many them knowing almost nothing about team comps and counterpicking, giving red side's advantage away, it still remains near 50. Because again, there's a forced side winrate. This is one of the main reasons why whenever many are talking about balancing a champion and someone brings up winrates, there will always be that one person that says "winrates don't mean anything." Because winrates can be inflated and lowered just due to blue or red side's equation status at the time.

Thank you for reading my bible of a comment.

Edit: spelling error and forgot some periods lol.

Lmao. Looking at pro play.

There are metas when ride side wins more and metas where blue side wins more. Red side is usually forced to ban the OP picks so blue side can’t first pick them in LCS. No such system exists in SoloQ.

Often time the 3 red side bans are set in stone.

Small brain post. Try again.

Frog goes moo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=charge attack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrHIMypB,comment-id=000200010001,timestamp=2018-11-11T17:14:19.455+0000)

Lmao. Looking at pro play.

There are metas when ride side wins more and metas where blue side wins more. Red side is usually forced to ban the OP picks so blue side can’t first pick them in LCS. No such system exists in SoloQ.

Often time the 3 red side bans are set in stone.

Small brain post. Try again.

Do you have any stats for that, or is that just conjecture? Also, it doesn't matter who is first ban in LCS if they're doing traditional champion select. Both teams ban before a team is able to select a champ.

Double also, believe it or not, there are more than 5-10 meta champions or champions that do exceptionally well in competitive play.

A small example would be the fanatic vs c9 games where Sneaky was forced to play Viktor ADC just to keep it away from fanatic's top laner (still lost btw).

charge attack1 votes

{quoted}

Do you have any stats for that, or is that just conjecture? Also, it doesn't matter who is first ban in LCS if they're doing traditional champion select. Both teams ban before a team is able to select a champ.

Double also, believe it or not, there are more than 5-10 meta champions or champions that do exceptionally well in competitive play.

A small example would be the fanatic vs c9 games where Sneaky was forced to play Viktor ADC just to keep it away from fanatic's top laner (still lost btw).

It’s obvious you don’t watch a lot of LCS. Maybe watched this worlds.

There are metas when red side is favorable - and metas when blue side is. In metas where counterpick mid/top is required, red side is favorable (see last year worlds or LCK finals - top side counterpick was most important).

Compare that to early season 7 - where Camille/Leblanc were 100% ban on red side. Effectively making red side lose their bans.

More often than not, red side is forced to ban specific champions where blue side is not. Worlds 2017, Kalista. Worlds 2016, Nidalee. Which gives blue side an unfair advantage in most competitive matches.

Once again. You made a small brain post. Move along.

Frog goes moo1 votes

this one link invalidates your entire argument. lmao: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/lcs/lcs-win-stats/lck-2017-summer-split

You can navigate between every year's split with the selection tool at the top right and you'll see that every single split in every region starting from 2016 (that's as far as it goes) has a higher blue side winrate.

"Obvious you don't watch alot of lcs"

I guess you were talking about yourself huh? Good conversation though. Glad that we had to include insults in the conversation to only make ourselves look even worse when proven wrong. :)

charge attack1 votes

{quoted}

this one link invalidates your entire argument. lmao: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/lcs/lcs-win-stats/lck-2017-summer-split

You can navigate between every year's split with the selection tool at the top right and you'll see that every single split in every region starting from 2016 (that's as far as it goes) has a higher blue side winrate.

"Obvious you don't watch alot of lcs"

I guess you were talking about yourself huh? Good conversation though. Glad that we had to include insults in the conversation to only make ourselves look even worse when proven wrong. :)

Like I said in most metas blue side is favorable because of the ban system. Then you link LCK summer split which I never mentioned (I only mentioned finals). I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you have a problem reading though.

However there are metas when red side is favorable. Also its matchup dependant (some teams care more about Solo lane counterpicks - such as IG).

Then again, idk why I respond to you. Just another clueless small brain boards poster randomly looking at stats cause they have 0 brain cells of their own. Instead of trying to convince silvers on boards how about you try and bring your tier A analysis to actual high-tier league analysts so you can laughed at. I think it'd make for good content.

Frog goes moo1 votes

All I hear in this response is "Oh damn you really showed me up with these statistics. Let me try to insult you a little more to make up for the fact that my argument was debunked."

Stop talking please. My small brain can't take it anymore REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE lmao

charge attack1 votes

{quoted}

All I hear in this response is "Oh damn you really showed me up with these statistics. Let me try to insult you a little more to make up for the fact that my argument was debunked."

Stop talking please. My small brain can't take it anymore REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE lmao

I stated in the first 2 paragraphs why your stats are bad/support my argument. Poor reading comprehension. Not suprised.

Frog goes moo1 votes

Yes. Let's not use stats and facts. Let's use our feelings. Well since you feel that red side is better I guess it is then huh? Good conversation man. Have a great day.

charge attack1 votes

{quoted}

Yes. Let's not use stats and facts. Let's use our feelings. Well since you feel that red side is better I guess it is then huh? Good conversation man. Have a great day.

Never said red side is better. I explained that red side is not always better and more importantly that the reason blue side is usually better is usually very specific to the professional banning system - which doesn't effect SoloQ.

Jesus, you really have poor reading comprehension. Like its one thing to have a discussion on the forums - but when the other guy can't even read, whats the point?

Frog goes moo1 votes

You said based on certain metas ride side is more favorable or better. I've proven with statistics that blue side always has a higher winrate. Next argument please. And drizzle an insult on the top to keep it warm for me.

Frog goes moo1 votes

Also my entire argument was towards lcs. I even said that solo Q has a forced 50 percent side winrate. The ending statement is irrelevant.

Denni8 votes

I believe blue side advantages aren't as bad as you think. Blue side gets baron advantage, red side gets dragon advantage. Sight is limited to fog of war. (and sometimes red side sight can be abused better than blue can e.g. Caitlyn traps in bot lane)

Jungle pathing is dependent on the meta, currently red first is usually favoured which makes leash a little better on blue side, but this isn't always the case.

Also, blue side is first pick, but red side is first to be able to pick two champions. Furthermore, red side has last pick as well.

Terozu7 votes

First pick is a disadvantage though.

Tahminatrix 3 votes

This has been suggested many times, people even designed a map layout to show exactly what you described no walls around baron and dragon, just having them in the middle of the river in a sort of crater area where scuttle would normally drop their vision zones.

Problem is riot staff arnt responsive to these posts, no matter how many upvotes they get or how many people want questions answered.

Woodakoodashooda3 votes

Invert the camera for red so that to red side players north is blue team's base. Remove the walls surrounding dragon and baron pits. Switch the positions of Red AND Blue buff on red side, the other camps can remain the same. Have a random number generator decide if red or blue team is allowed first pick in champion select.

charge attack2 votes

Stop playing on lock screen

BiasZebra1 votes

[{quoted}](name=charge attack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrHIMypB,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-11-11T02:50:10.806+0000)

Stop playing on lock screen

It's not just locked screen, he's talking about the angle. It's not a big issue, just annoying.

Yuno 022 votes

It's this guy for real? I may be Silver 2 but that's really really stupid. It's not a shooter so that one team has a map advantage. If you see that you always lose by playing jgl and you follow the same route all games then you should change your path or try new champs not saying that one side it's on an advantage. That's dumb dude. Just my opinion.

FilDaFunk2 votes

So you're saying the game is a coinflip (pick a side). 50% winrate.

Quiet Dude1 votes

Correct me if Im wrong, but dont they compensate for the advantage by goving red side a slight mmr advantage? I could be wrong. Im probably wrong.

Unvictus1 votes

No you're right actually, at least at one point that's how it was, and unless i missed something it still is a thing. If I recall, red side also gets a little more LP for wins, as well as losing less LP for a loss.

That being said, I personally still hate how much of an advantage blue side has and I would like them to actually do something about it, other than putting a bandaid on it.

SSW Talon1 votes

blue side gets more lp, loses less but has an MMR disadvantage red side gets less lp, loses more but has an MMR advantage. the reason you get less lp and lose more on red side is actually because of the MMR advantage you get.

Unvictus1 votes

But the reason there is a MMR advantage in the first place is because blue side has an unfair advantage due to camera angle. From what I’ve seen with my own LP gains and losses I’ve always gotten more and lost less when I’m red side.

Emerald Fang1 votes

Camera angles might also affect blue side win rate even if the camera is unlocked because you naturally see further on blue side than you do red sideregardless of locked screen or unlocked screen and the UI blocking some of the red side view doesn't help.

This I agree with, but how are they going to change it??

Also in jungler pathing, the blue side gets a better start with red buff with 2 people while the red side has to start on blue side with 2 people and loses the early ganking/dueling trades.

Riot is forcing minion spawn time to 35s instead of 1m5s and this will probably clear up a lot of the invade issues.

Blue side has a HUGE bot lane disadvantage because of the extra path junglers can take to gank. It requires blueside to double up on warding both in jungle and river bush. Also, a lot of meta jungles are very mobile and do a lot of damage so they're able to take that jungle path to really screw over enemies.

Redside has that on top lane but in this meta bot usually has a somewhat larger influence on the game than top.

Also redside has drag advantage which is probably more influential in most cases because it can decide which way the snowball rolls. Baron is usually for closing out games when you're already winning / last-ditch efforts when you're losing.

Jungler Rimuru1 votes

LoL no

The only time map layout is unfair if you are on right side (redside) of toplane This doesnt symetricly translate to botlane because botlane has more warders

As a multiple times ex chall you can quote me on this, I guarantee this

Leto GT1 votes

I win most of my games on redside. It's easier as a jungler in the current meta because of lvl2 ganks.

FakeGravity1 votes

i think beside picks and bans the issue is baron pit, why not move baron pit to the center of top lane kinda like how vilemaw is? would be at least interesting to see how hard the meta shift to dominant top lanes

Profirix1 votes

They just need to follow TT's example and make it left-right.

LordGeovanni1 votes

red side has to walk around to baron but baron is also closer to their fountain than it is blue side. not to mention that we were to go with your definition you just gave every dragon to red side.

Xeronic1 votes

And red side get the next 2 picks in champ select. They got no walls to dragon. Some junglers that prefers single target camps likes bottom side red side, because the camps are either 1 or 3 creeps.

5050BS1 votes

The UI is what gets me mad when Im red side. I want to MOVE IT so much. Why is the games UI not editable? MANY other games you can unlock and move/resize each element. Why not in this game?

Woofie1 votes

this game has anti-competitive aspects to it that were fixed by switching to HOTS.

Symmetrical BGs, no advantage based on side. Its pretty fun. you guys should give it a try.

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