Perception vs. Reality is getting out of hand on these boards

chipndip1·Nov 13, 2018·49 votes·16,533 views

I've been seeing this shit a lot lately.

" isn't all that good rn. Can she get some buffs cause she's SUPER TRASH RN?"

Now, I know you guys don't like, well...math or proof of claims on these boards, but it's literally just a few clicks on Google to pull up this:

https://i.gyazo.com/9a914ebdd42e2355f037d46e9b75083a.png

https://i.gyazo.com/110f1042bbff191265bb493662bb025d.png

What about that is in need of buffs, again?

Or that Riven thread that prompted me to make this thread.

"Riven's super countered and has no keystone and needs bu-"

https://i.gyazo.com/be088241e07ebbb3854bfe52e22e3257.png

https://i.gyazo.com/106c60393484386e6de4363eab0ed274.png

https://i.gyazo.com/2d77fc516213fd49c883151478768130.png

Like...I get it. You guys hate using stat sites, but they're there for a good reason.

171 Comments

Genghis KhatNov 13, 201847 votes

Ye i honestly do not know why people want kat buffs. I constantly keep telling "some" users who keep hijacking any assassin thread and turning it into a "plz buff kat" thread. It is genuinely sickening at this point. They think that taking off CAST TIME of an ability is QoL... that buffing CD and slight damage is QoL.... I really hope no one takes them seriously at this point.

Some kat players right now are genuinely worse than shaco mains, like let's be honest.

kargishNov 13, 201815 votes

Seems to be the case for... every insert group of mains here ever.

The Rengar community received heavy backlash as well when they made the board's first megathread.

TheSnowyLeopardNov 14, 20182 votes

I think that goes for the hate groups too, like people complaining about irelia and akali

McsquzzyNov 13, 20183 votes

I agree with you on definition of Qol being misused.

Example: teemo aa still possible to cancel after he makes the blow sound should be fixed. Qol change Teemo poison has an additional tick. Buff

AAlso I need to stop making posts on my tablet. Autocorrect is killing me

BONUS DMG 2NOOBSNov 13, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I agree with you on definition of Qol being misused.

Example: teemo aa still possible to cancel after he makes the blow sound should be fixed. Qol change Teemo poison has an additional tick. Buff

Does the fact that rengar has had a Q bug for over 6 months going unfixed qualify for QoL update? (5-10% of the time if you go to AA+q+AA rengar will just stop autoattacking) Sounds like no big deal but often it costs kills or gets you killed.

ŚhunpoNov 14, 20183 votes

[deleted]

Genghis KhatNov 14, 20183 votes

Hey did u see how many games i got this season?

370wins -368 losses. more than 700 games but for some reason op.gg only shows 100 games? did u notice that? It's cause i did a server transfer. and guess what before i transferred i had a 60% kat with 400 games :) I had peeked and became hardstuck at p2-d5 rank and here my mmr before playing 1 game was at d5 so i lost a lot. Please check yourself before you wreck yourself. When i get home i can show you my EUNE account before i transferred

also you have 12 games this season so how do you even dare to mention someone elses stats? ^ hate to use someones op.gg to prove my point but uhh this is more than amusing. If you want i can make a new account place silver 5 and then have 100% winrate until im P5. not hard.

Reset MachineNov 14, 20183 votes

Well, what we truly want is something that will smoothen her gameplay while being more or less power-neutral. She FEELS bad to play (hence perception IS AS MUCH IMPORTANT as the "reality" of stats)

If they did something like:

reduce AP scaling of daggers from 0.55~~1.0 to 0.55~~0.75 and base damages at levels 6-18 from 280 max to 250, while
reduce daggers' drop time from 1.25 to 1.25 -0,01 per level (1.2 at level 6, 1.15 at level 11, 1.10 at level 16, 1.08 at level 18)

it would be a change that makes her more fun to play for both sides. Because current problem with kat is :

her kill times are arguably slowest for any assassin and 50% of times she is dead before her W dagger even hits the ground;
Half the game's roster can literally cross the whole dagger in the time it falls;
If for some reason enemy is retarded and can't dodge daggers then they get instagibbed with one dagger.

She is fine in midgame, where she actually needs to proc 2 daggers in a combo to kill, later it becomes just one dagger, but landing that becomes reliant on enemy being plainly stupid and nothing that correlates to your own skill. Her combo speed should therefore be amped up with levels at the cost of damage so she is forced to dance around enemies more and stick to them to actually do damage, in exchange giving Kat players more of the dagger fantasy in their lives.

Genghis KhatNov 14, 20186 votes

I disagree. I for one do not have any of these problems you have said. and i make new accounts quite frequently so i know how she is silver5-d5 :/ and alot of challenger kat players do not have this problem. ALSO i barely ever die so fast that i cant get my w down? like seriously when do you use it? its QEW= 1 second combo. or EWQ= delayed 2 second combo. :/ who kills u so fast? Not even a rengar can instagib me that fast :/ I need some proof for this.

KatsarosNov 14, 20182 votes

Just because you dont die immediately when you go in doesnt mean everyone else is the same. I've had kayn, rengar khazix all instant gib me before. If you wear right in the middle of their whole team in a team fight. You are gonna die. A lot of people do that.

Genghis KhatNov 14, 20185 votes

Improve your play then. :/

Yuung FappyNov 17, 20181 votes

[deleted]

Genghis KhatNov 17, 20184 votes

Ironic. all you just did was call me a piece of shit. also i have 5 kat games per day???? also no other kat player is reasonable. they just say im wrong cause they are true kat mains who dont even play the champ but only complain. like you

ZephyrDrakeNov 13, 201812 votes

Because if people used stat sites like 80% of complaints would instantly become invalid

Genghis KhatNov 13, 20185 votes

Logic is not allowed when talking about balance.

Frog goes mooNov 14, 20188 votes

I agree with you that riven and kat don't need buffs, but if you're taking stats from pros and one tricks of champions as proof that they don't need to be buffed, you're sadly mistaken.

I used to one trick ivern when I was playing in low silver elo like 2 months ago and had at most a 61 percent winrate on him https://imgur.com/gallery/K1jlvve (which is now lowered to 55), that doesn't mean that he didn't deserve the buffs he got a patch ago, it just means that people that know and dedicate themselves to a champion will do better than others.

ZT XperimentorNov 13, 20186 votes

The rates, even when all three are taken together, only show a fraction of the champion's issues, good or bad. They can point to potential problems, but don't expect them to give any accurate feedback.

For example, a high win rate, but low pick and ban rates; would be common for mains playing their favorite obscure non-meta champion. An average win rate, low pick rate, and high ban rate; could be demonstrating a champion frustrating to face, or could also be pointing towards another sheep wave banning whatever is meta.

Data points require content AND context to be useful for making judgement calls.

chipndip1Nov 13, 201812 votes

I didn't cut any context. You have their play rate and win rate, and if you need any more context just go to Lolalytics for the rest of it.

Katarina is "carried by mains", but why does that mean she needs a bunch of "QoL" fixes like cast time removals and base damage buffs? NOTHING ABOUT HER STATS says anything about needing buffs.

The problem I have is people come to ridiculous conclusions about champion power levels and say bullshit when they're called out on it.

ŚhunpoNov 14, 20186 votes

"Katarina is "carried by mains", but why does that mean she needs a bunch of "QoL" fixes like cast time removals and base damage buffs? NOTHING ABOUT HER STATS says anything about needing buffs."

Because she's not fun right now. That's not even subjective, it's the majority that shares this opinion. Her stats. do actually reflect this since her pick rate keeps dropping every patch due to her mains quitting the game out of frustration.

If a champion is not fun, then the players who play that champion will not play that champion, ergo something is very wrong with that champion. The same shit happened in the marksman patch this season, but I guess double standards apply, huh....

Genghis KhatNov 14, 20184 votes

Majority? you mean that one discord chat with 30 people who made a fake post?

"Kat does need buffs" - Barrack Obama

You think that is believable? Cause that post just had half names who don't play kat and half names who barely played kat. And literally, every high elo kat disagreed with that post. ALSO. champions fun IS SUBJECTIVE i and my friends consider kat fun. you and your strangers who don't even play kat (including you) mr.12games per season kat. think she aint fun. Once you start playing kat then ill even consider your posts worth something. cause right now, they are worth as much as my used socks (nothing)

"If a champion is not fun, then the players who play that champion will not play that champion" who stopped playing her cause she is "not fun" name one person who did that but that person needs to have at least 150 games with kat.

Yuung FappyNov 17, 20181 votes

[deleted]

Genghis KhatNov 17, 20184 votes

Check my acc? 5 games with kat daily :D so idk what ur talking about tbh

are you that guy who upvoted shunposcastime posts literally 15 seconds after he posts em with a giant wall of text?

chipndip1Nov 14, 20183 votes

{quoted}

"Katarina is "carried by mains", but why does that mean she needs a bunch of "QoL" fixes like cast time removals and base damage buffs? NOTHING ABOUT HER STATS says anything about needing buffs."

Because she's not fun right now.

That isn't a balance problem.

ŚhunpoNov 14, 20184 votes

I'm implying that I want QoL changes. So yes, that isn't a balance problem, that is a dynamic problem to do with the champion that needs to be addressed.

I don't care for buffs as much as I do bugfixes and QoL changes. But I suppose I am making my intentions confusing.....althooough, her being awful in lane does lower her fun which inherently makes it a balance problem.

Also, please address what I said about marksman, cause it's quite literally the same issue. Marksman became lackluster in lane for 1 patch and were stronger outside of lane and they continually received positive changes because they expressed that they weren't having fun. Assassin mains have tried doing this, and guess what, we get nowhere unless we scream for months on end like Rengo and LB mains. So again, double standards.

chipndip1Nov 14, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I'm implying that I want QoL changes. So yes, that isn't a balance problem

Good, cause this is a balance thread.

Also, your idea of QoL changes are nothing but net positive changes...which are buffs.

ŚhunpoNov 14, 20183 votes

Wait, fixing her dagger interactions with certain abilities and interactions with Shunpo has with certain abilities are buffs? Okie dokie.

Removing her cast time would be a slightly positive buff yes. But I have stated that I'm up for alternatives. Just anything to make her less "clunky".

But if this is a balance thread what do you think of +5 damage to passive early game, +2 to MR and +1 to armour and possibly +5 movement speed? I feel like those buffs are more than possible and don't completely break her, with the biggest buff being +5 movement speed bringing her back to 345 movement speed.

chipndip1Nov 14, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Wait, fixing her dagger interactions with certain abilities and interactions with Shunpo has with certain abilities are buffs? Okie dokie.

Fixing bugs is exactly that. That's different from your namesake, and you keep asking for unnecessary buffs.

ŚhunpoNov 15, 20183 votes

Unnecessary? Why can't a champion just get buffed? I fail to see the problem here. Yes, your statistics are convincing, that still doesn't mean that there's room to buff Kat.

Whatever, let's just agree to disagree and fix daggers and Shunpo, no buffs needed.

chipndip1Nov 15, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Unnecessary? Why can't a champion just get buffed? I fail to see the problem here.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

HungryAngry2SPPNov 13, 20185 votes

Like...I get it. You like to use numbers instead of reality (Not saying numbers are always wrong, but are almost never credible)

My Waifu VanillaNov 14, 20186 votes

Except those numbers are EMPIRICAL data. Your "reality" and perception of how strong/weak the champion is, on the other hand, is COMPLETELY anecdotal and thus should never be taken seriously in any discussion about balance and/or change.

chipndip1Nov 14, 20185 votes

I'm glad that my case can be proven and yours can't so you can look like a child saying "No u" instead of a person with a point to be made.

HungryAngry2SPPNov 15, 20182 votes

Quick overused example: Ryze

chipndip1Nov 15, 20182 votes

Ok...we don't let Ryze get anywhere close to 50% win rate or he terrorizes the LCS...what have you accomplished?

Fízz v2Nov 13, 20183 votes

Tbf 4% pick rate is pretty low so her win rate should be higher. But yeah, I dont think Kat is as weak as kat players say she is unless you are in challenger maybe

chipndip1Nov 13, 201816 votes

Higher than 55 percent?

Can we buff Sona then?

Necro Warrior87Nov 13, 20185 votes

Holy shit, I didn't realize under 55% was underpowered! TIME TO BUFF NASUS GUYS

LichKing234Nov 14, 20182 votes

Buff board Nasus now gains 6 stacks from regular minions and 12 stacks from champs, mosnters and cannon minions when he first Rs he gains 50% movespeed that decays over 2 secs XD

Spicy RiceNov 14, 20183 votes

#MakeJungleNasusGreatAgain

Blackii7Nov 14, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Higher than 55 percent?

Can we buff Sona then?

Kat doesn't really need buffs, just adjustment to her E delay. But riven on the other hand does need buffs. The only ones that play her are Riven mains, and 55% for a riven main is pretty look. Look at other mains with 60%-70% winrate on their champion. Let alone the amount of skill it takes to master the champion is insane.

chipndip1Nov 14, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Kat doesn't really need buffs, just adjustment to her E delay. But riven on the other hand does need buffs. The only ones that play her are Riven mains, and 55% for a riven main is pretty look.

I fucking can't...

Genghis KhatNov 13, 20186 votes

Dude i swear if kat gets buffs ill quit league.

ŚhunpoNov 14, 20184 votes

You don't even play her much anymore though....so it wouldn't really effect you.

Genghis KhatNov 14, 20184 votes

800 games per year with one champ is not enough. :/ i mean okey. but your 12 games are more than enough ;D wait why do you even care about kat you got 12 games.

ŚhunpoNov 14, 20184 votes

Because I want to go back to playing her on my main. I can't exactly play her in Diamond when she just gets dumpstered by everything....with a brain, and surprisingly they have brains up in Diamond (good on em tbh). I can play her in Plat though, that shit hella easy, so I just play on other accounts.

Also it's not 800 games, you have 76 games, you're just as bad as me hotshot. If we're counting normal games though then both of our opinions are valid since we've likely played Kat over 1k times.

Genghis KhatNov 14, 20184 votes

Check op.gg and tell me how many ranked games i have in total. and how many i got on all champions combined ;)

also i do have quite good games with kat in diamond elo. :)

link to main?

also here is my rank decayed eune account that i transferred to euw :) current account bad winrate is because at the start of the season i had like 2-22 in my first 24 games in euw because botlanes were 0/8 before 4th minute. in eune people play alot better than euw that i can guarantee you. http://eune.op.gg/summoner/userName=K%C3%8E%C5%A2%C5%A2%CE%A5K%C3%82%C5%A2K%C3%82%C5%A2%C3%82R%C3%8E%C3%91%C3%82