Dear Riot: How to fix the game pace in the 8.2 patch

Lil Homie busta·Jan 8, 2018·8 votes·877 views

1: Decrease the First Tower Gold (a.k.a first turret blood) from 300 (split between nearby allies) to 150;
2: Increase the duration of Fortification buff (outer turrets; decreases damage taken by 50%) from 5 minutes to 7 minutes;
3: Increase turret stats: [HP] ~~3600/3800~~ --> 4000/4200 (+400 hp) | [Initial armor and MR] ~~40 and 40~~ --> 55 and 45;
5: ????
6: Profit.

Decreasing the first turret gold means less snowball, since most of the time the winning team is the one that takes it.

Increasing the duration of fortification means less scenarios where teams get first turret at 6 minutes.

Making turrets more tanky not only increases directly the duration of mid and early game, but it also affects the speed that the teams get global gold, which decreases snowball as well.

14 Comments

CrystalyskJan 8, 20182 votes

While i agree turrets are paper and something has to be done about it i think first blood tower giving 300 gold is fine. Considering that players take some risks to take first tower, 150 gold don't seem that much rewarding.

InvidieJan 8, 20182 votes

tell them to stop eating burgers and get their fatasses back to work.

Whisper87Jan 8, 20181 votes

Also remove Demolition.

I'd also say put in a viable trade option top lane so that when the inevitable 4 man gang bang happens bottom for tower first blood and first Drake, 1-2 people can take something on the top half in trade that is more valuable than blue buff.

RocketRelmJan 8, 20181 votes

Unpopular opinion? Demolition is fairly healthy. Giving not-adcs the ability to meaningfully harm towers is not the problem. The problem is that towers are too flimsy in general.

My personal change-list would be something more like Reduce Turret FB to 150 Reduce damage dealt to turrets by Ranged Champions by 20%. Reduce damage taken from auto attacks from the (higher of 100% Bonus AD or 50% AP) to (higher of 60% Bonus AD or 40% AP) Increase all towers to 4000 HP. Remove the ability

and work from there. Sure, this does fairly little to stop Demolish and Sheen users from wrecking towers, but I feel like it'd be healthier for the game overall if we shifted the role of "tower shredder" from Marksman to Melee Carry, or at least put them on equal footing.

Whisper87Jan 9, 20182 votes

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'd just like to know your reasoning. Why is it healthier for melee to be tower shredders than ADC. My thought have always been that melee typically come online quicker in terms of combat so it's ok if ADC are better at tower hitting for most of the game.

Can you explain?

RocketRelmJan 9, 20181 votes

1: Counterplay, melee need to be in melee to hit the tower. Demolition needs the tank to sit near it for several seconds. This is significantly easier to reach/threaten than the tank maneuvering to that position to vanguard and the adc 600 units back being the DPS on the turret.

2a: A niche, both for items and melee in general. Sheen items (especially trinity) get to shine better in their role as tower-shredders. 2b: As for melees, my standpoint is "Let Melee Have Nice Things". By and large, the short end of the stick goes to melee, because having range is such an advantage.

3: Adcs will still be good at the job. Even with this specific rollout of changes, it's likely that ADCs will still be the preferred wall-breakers simply because of their relative safety, and the fact that they're better in team fights. Additionally, they're allowed to build full-glass which means the total dps they can bring to bear on a tower might still be higher.

To answer your specific reasoning, we're past the days where "melee comes online quicker" is something I can subscribe to. Sure, technically they do, but ADCs come online fast enough (and towers are frail enough) for that to not be exceptionally relevant.

Additionally, there has ~~nearly~~ always been a marksman on each team in every serious game of league, and I don't foresee that ever changing. They're the best scalers, the best tower pushers, and they do more than that (because if they literally only did those two things there'd be like, 5 marksmen at the most) (ex: Utility/Lane bullying/Aoe Ult/Waveclear&Siege).

Thus, I figure marksmen can take the power hit, and this is one of the few ways that's easy to implement/measure, only hits their tower clear and not their teamfight/survivability, and hits the whole class evenly without playing whack-a-mole with the FotM ADC. High on game health, low on relative player dissatisfaction.

Wow, that got wall-of-texty, sorry to whoever had to wade through that (Also, one more change I'd like to make would be removing that +10% minion. damage they randomly threw in as compensation for 300 more HP on turrets, 100% unnecessary).

tldr: "Let Melee Have Nice Things", adcs will still probably be better at tower-smashing even with those changes.

Whisper87Jan 9, 20181 votes

ADC's are the least mobile and the squishiest targets in the game. And in most cases can't really be proactive and create plays unless they have team mates either engaging or peeling for them.

(obviously there are outliers with specific champs against specific garbo comps, but you get what I mean in general)

Here's my deal, I agree that ADC are high value in scaling and in team fights cuz of their damage style, but I think if you make ADC's pretty much do nothing until they hit their fighting power spike, we would see a world where ADC's are no longer a 100% role. You'd see other stuff played bottom, and I don't even know if you'd always want a fully dedicated support at that point either.

Being decent at hitting towers and neutrals is what makes ADC worth anything in the early game. I mean I know you don't want them to be high value early I get that. But if there is no reason to play them at all in the early game I feel like it becomes not necessary to have a marksman every game. A true ADC would become like a niche pick, or rather bot lane would be open to other picks with more fighting potential. Which might actually might make bottom even more of a 4 man gank clown fiesta. Which maybe some people want to see, IDK.

RocketRelmJan 11, 20181 votes

First off, I do agree that one of the fundamental issues of the Marksman is that it's got a very low conversion of power-to-fun ratio, because of an absolute lack of proactivity, this is a big problem with the class, but is largely separate.

ADCs would still be decent at tower-taking (approx 75%-80% of current), and their dragon dps wouldn't be affected at all. Additionally, lots of adcs are worth a truckload from Lvl 1 now, and that's fine (or at least, they're meant to be). Even the hyper scalers are moderately good in the early game right now when appropriately peeled for.

The days where ADCs needed three items to power spike are past. Now it happens at 1-2 items, same as most other champs. I don't see shaving off some tower damage bunting them out of the meta, simply because no other class offers anything on remotely the same level of raw DPS. It'd take something insane like the tower change being "literally just marksmen deal 50% less damage to towers", to seriously dent their place in the meta this way, imo.

xelakerJan 8, 20181 votes

RIot: ok guys we've listened and gave towers 100 health and 3 armor, but playtesting suggested games were getting too long so we've decided to buff demolition so it stays a viable option.

Lil Homie bustaJan 8, 20181 votes

lmao, turret buff fiasco 2 - the return of the card tower