The Conundrum of ADCs and the Botlane

ProfDrDeath··3 votes·646 views

Recently, there has been a lot of discussion about ADCs and their effect on the game. Allow me to offer another, slightly different perspective.


First, why does virtually every game have at least two ADCs in the gold-gaining role in the bot lane?

Simple answer: Because this kind of champions is less negatively affected by having access to less XP than the other classes in the game. That boils down to two factors:

For one, range is its own form of survivability. Having an attack range themselves allows champions to stay out of the enemy focus, meaning that they don't need as much stat-based durability to survive, as they are far from guaranteed to take damage - can't hurt what you can't hit, can you? Contrast melee champions, who by necessity move into range of the enemy focus, meaning they are virtually guaranteed to take the enemy's damage - especially since their lower range also limits their position relative to the target they want to attack. As such, melee champions demand a lot more stat-based durability, which is expressed in higher base stats. And since base stats scale with level, melees are worse off when sharing XP than their ranged brethren. Especially given how base stat tankiness tends to at least triple between levels 1 and 18.

The other part lies in the auto-attack focus of these ADCs. In contrast to ability-focused champions, the increases in auto-attack efficiency are far lower with additional levels than the increases in ability efficiency. In addition to increased base damages, abilities can also gain increased utility, decreased cooldowns or even increased scalings. For the same effectiveness increases in gold, a champion would need to pay quite a price (for instance, an increase in 40 damage in an ability that scales 0.7 with AP would require 57 AP, which is almost a NLR at 1250 gold - for a single level-up). Contrast the effect of level increases on auto-attack damage: The most damage a champion gets for a single level is about 4.5 AD, or 162 gold. This effect is even more pronounced for ADCs, whose base AD increase between levels 1 and 18 is seldomly even enough to double the initial value - and, for most of the class, is not significantly over 40 AD. 40 AD, which is the equivalent to a single BF sword at 1300 gold, for 17 levels of base stats. Compare the above value for a single additional rank in an ability.

So, auto-attack focused, ranged champions scale well with gold, but proportionally less affected by getting less XP than other classes. Of course, additional level never hurt, but if one were to decide between getting an additional level on an ADC and on a tank/mage/assassin/Juggernaut...


With that established, how does it affect the rest of the map and general champion variety on a coordinated level?

By always having a ranged, auto-attack based champion on the bot lane, teams will have a solid foundation in the sustained damage and (usually) physical damage departments. As this is the case, priority on these two departments decreases for the other roles.

This negatively affects the viability of sustained damage focused champions in other roles on the coordinated level, as bringing something like a Skirmisher or Juggernaut will mean that your composition has a lot of physical damage, but will be lacking in other important team-building departments. For the two classes mentioned above, bringing a Skirmisher would usually result in a hit to fight control, tankiness and/or engage ability, whereas bringing a Juggernaut results in a loss of engage ability and an increase in kiteability. As such, these kinds of champions are mainly restricted to niche roles, when their specific strengths are suitable against the enemy/with your own team or their weaknesses do not lead to an exploitable team comp. Or they are numerically so overtuned that the weaknesses don't really matter.


How could that be changed?

A good solution to this particular problem will be difficult to find without changing the game utterly. An approach (that would render the game less fun, imo) would be to make XP sharing grant both partners the full value (or even distribute earned XP among the whole team). That's what Heroes of the Storm does - and it is a vastly different game for it. Another approach that might be more feasible would be to design champions (not items, but specific champions) that are of a non-ADC class, but that function equally well when sharing XP. And, and this is the crux, that are not too powerful if they get actual solo XP. A good example for a potential mechanic for such a champion could be found in the first reworked Cass passive: This passive would give her boni (at break points, which is less optimal) if she had accumulated enough stacks. And she would gain stacks by applying poison to enemy champions, making her even better in duo lane: More targets to poison = more stacks. Now, in Cass' case, this would result in a magic sustained damage champion (still filling the need for sustained damage), but I can't see a reason why a similar system should not work for a burst mage.

In any case, League would need a few of these non-ADC XP sharers, or teams would be forced to early-pick the existing one and thus lose a lot of flexibility on the draft.


TL;DR: Resource allocation makes ADCs the optimal farming botlane choice. Having a source of sustained physical damage makes additional sustained damage dealers less attractive, lowering their viability. To overcome this, League needs working non-sustained damage bot laners, which are difficult to properly design.

18 Comments

HeresyHorus2 votes

Nice try comparing ability to auto scaling with levels while completely ignoring the fact that ADCs too have abilities that scale with levels, and many times they scale just as hard as mages abilities do or even harder with just levels, just look at Caitlyn Corki Graves Quinn Xayah

Now combine their ability scaling + auto scaling + innate benefits ( Ranged auto, 0 Cd/Resource auto, targeted auto, quadruple scaling, one stat scales both auto and ability ) and u end up with a class that scales better than other classes with levels and with gold.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

Alternatively, make them not AA focused. Or turn AAs into skillshots. Or implement a "dead zone" - a minimum range on marksmen AAs, that would function like Cass W's minimum range. Doing either of the latter would reduce the stat check that ADCs effectively are. The solution here is to hobble marksmen with the nerf hammer.

Kaìju1 votes

I think that might be too much though, and would gut them in low elo. I get what you mean, but I don't think turning ADCs into worse Aurelion Sol's is the right idea. However while I highly x 10000 think that auto attacks won't ever be skillshots, I would like that, but they would need more range to compensate that loss in ease of damage application since now it's just flat put harder.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

Part of the problem inherent to ADCs though is that so long as they aren't extremely behind, they are a stat check upon finishing 2 items and it's effectively impossible to 1v1 them.

Khristophoros2 votes

{quoted}

Part of the problem inherent to ADCs though is that so long as they aren't extremely behind, they are a stat check upon finishing 2 items and it's effectively impossible to 1v1 them.

Fizz Zed Yasuo Akali Irelia Leblanc Syndra Camille JarvanIV LeeSin Pantheon Diana Jax Katarina Riven MonkeyKing MasterYi

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

None of those champions are pure stat check champions that kill you with two point click AAs the moment you walk into their 600 range AAs, as soon as they finish two items.

All of the champions you mentioned actually have counterplay. ADCs do not.

Kaìju2 votes

Ashe is a stat check? Last I checked she actually has no real burst, a single DPS steroid, and doesn't scale as harshly off crit. If you can't 1v1 a 2 item Ashe as any sort of reasonable equal enemy champion like a diver, assassin, or some fighters, you are doing it wrong. I've kited entire teams before at 6 items, but Ashe is still weak at 2 items.

Khristophoros1 votes

{quoted}

None of those champions are pure stat check champions that kill you with two point click AAs the moment you walk into their 600 range AAs, as soon as they finish two items.

All of the champions you mentioned actually have counterplay. ADCs do not.

You said "upon finishing 2 items and it's effectively impossible to 1v1 them" My response is a list of champions who kill ADCs in 1v1 basically without even trying.

also LOL @ you thinking all of those have counterplay. Some of them do but some of them definitely don't.

I take it you've never played as or played against Pantheon. The TLDR is he automatically wins lane and if you don't respect him he'll kill you 5+ times before laning is over. Because he's Pantheon, and because fuck you, that's why.

Also take Fizz for example. His only "counterplay" is dodging his ult. If you dodge it he doesn't have to commit. Missing does not explicitly open him to any punishment, but landing it gives him an easy engage from a screen away at which point he just kills you because he's Fizz and you can't do anything about it.

"COUNTERPLAY!"

And in a 1v1 with an ADC the rest of the champs I listed might as well not have counterplay because of how much of an advantage they have in that 1v1, but I'm not going to say all of them are necessarily badly designed because of that alone.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

The only way ADCs should win a 1v1 is if their opponent disconnects.

Executioner1 votes

This is why, no one will take you seriously. Even though we know it's hard to detect sarcasm over typing. However I got you. Thanks.

Executioner1 votes

I never try to 1v1 any of these champions. I have to know, do they have flash, or whatever that could potentially fuck me. Exhaust up? Fuck no, ignite? Possible, but most of the time, no. Fash up? Never fighting them. Plus I will need red buff, and if I am horrendously fed, only then will I decide to fight them 1v1.

Siyther1 votes

turning aa into skill shots isnt viable. No one would or could use them effectivly. Champs are to mobile for that to happen abd would prob be the end of this game. Adc wouldnt even be played at all xayah maybe the only exection but also it would require a new game level rework on a hell of a lot of champs. I dont ever see that being a option. I just dont get why u ppl always want to nerf marksman into an unplayable state it baffles me. Trust that it hard enough to get enough gold most games to be worth a fuck mainly due to first tower blood and 4 man bot every 3 waves. Lord forbid if u have a melee support into a double ranged lane might as well afk for all the good you will be.Adc have clear weakness and its not the marksman fault if you dont abuse them

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

turning aa into skill shots isnt viable. No one would or could use them effectivly. Champs are to mobile for that to happen abd would prob be the end of this game.

No, it would be the end of marksmen. And that would be a good thing. The very concept of a marksman is poor design in this game when they deal extremely high consistent DPS while being very safe.

I'm sick and tired of the game being decided by whether or not your ADC wins lane. I'd rather have a meta where ADCs are absolute trash than this asinine "protect the 2 ADCs" meta that we have right now. The period in early 2017 where this was the case went almost far enough, but rather than buff other ADCs, Riot should have just nerfed Jhin and Varus into the ground, the last two playable ADCs.

Kaìju2 votes

So what you're saying is I should just feed every game I play Ashe?

Siyther1 votes

the end of markman would be the end of this game. Every adc main would quit. Do u have anyidea how many ppl that is. No ranged champs worth a fuck i and everyone i know would ditch that shit in a heartbeat.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

Every other class in the game has had at least one season where they were outclassed in every aspect by another class. Mages have had seasons where assassins were better. Bruisers and tanks have been good and bad interchangeably. Marksmen are literally the only champion class that hasn't gone a full season without being meta.

I'm not saying ranged champions in general would suck, I'm saying that ranged champions that deal all their damage through AAs would be worthless.

Khristophoros1 votes

It hasn't been about levels since like season 1. Solo lanes aren't that far ahead in exp unless they get fed. ADCs usually catch up in midgame when everyone starts roaming and they continue to focus on farming.

ADCs are the best choice for farming in bot lane because there are two lane opponents. Melee champions are less reliable at farming in that situation because there's more kill and harass potential which makes it riskier for them to get last hits. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Unironic SJW1 votes

{quoted}

It hasn't been about levels since like season 1. Solo lanes aren't that far ahead in exp unless they get fed. ADCs usually catch up in midgame when everyone starts roaming and they continue to focus on farming.

ADCs are the best choice for farming in bot lane because there are two lane opponents. Melee champions are less reliable at farming in that situation because there's more kill and harass potential which makes it riskier for them to get last hits. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Solo lanes are usually 1-3 levels ahead of the duo lane. Each level is worth 500+ gold on average, with almost all ADCs towards the bottom (for example, if Ekko lanes against Corki (the highest champ that's even remotely arguable as a marksman) he basically has a kill and an assist worth of stats over Corki at level 11 regardless of how the lane goes. Therefore it's far more efficient to have your bruisers, tanks, assassins and mages (in that order) in solo lanes. This is just stats, btw, ignoring that ADCs generally (with some exceptions like Lucian) get less damage out of their base damages than from scaling, and you need levels to get more base damage.

Also melee champions are worse at farming but better at all-inning the problem is that supports just happen to counter all ins. In a solo lane against Darius, the ADC should poke and kite Darius for the first 6 levels at minimum, but one misstep means the ADC is dead no questions asked. In a duo lane, if the ADC missteps into the Darius Leona lane, Janna presses Q and E and no harm no foul.

The only way to ever force ADCs out of being "mandatory" botlane is to as OP said, create non adc champions that scale into late game without needing levels. At the same time though, this is not really a problem except on Boards which has had a hate boner for ADCs for 3 seasons, and use ADCs being optimal in a shared lane (and there MUST be a shared lane on Summoner's Rift) to make the class out to be "Riot's favored child" when the issue is that Summoner's Rift is such a badly designed map that you have to have a particular class SOLELY because it's suboptimal to put any other class in that position)

Right now ADCs are super strong because enchanter itemization is wildly overtuned (really, Heal and Shield Power should not be a thing, and Ardent/Redemption should have worse stats, but it's only going to get WORSE with the CDR > AP conversion rune) but people on boards are sympathetic to support players so they don't see how support itemization is stronger right now than any class's itemization has been since, idk, Cleaver era? or Season 2 tank era, so they default to blaming ADCs because that's the circle jerk on here (I think the jerk comes from several factors, for example guys like Doublelift pretty much set the standard for what people think ADC players are like, also Hashinshin is really popular on here)

"Part of the problem inherent to ADCs though is that so long as they aren't extremely behind, they are a stat check upon finishing 2 items and it's effectively impossible to 1v1 them."

Only if you're playing really badly or they're playing really well. ADCs simply don't have enough damage to sit there and rightclick shit to death without their support, unless the ADC is really fed. If a given ADC seems impossible to kill, it's probably because their support is Lulu or Janna and they have Ardent completed.

"ADCs too have abilities that scale with levels, and many times they scale just as hard as mages abilities do or even harder with just levels"

Corki: Basically a marksman/mage hybrid, honestly he'll never be balanced until they make him pure AP, his kit is inherently broken (he's literally a mage that gets significant DPS) Quinn: Explicitly reworked to not be an ADC anymore Caitlyn: her abilities suck outside of W, and Q has horrible base damage Graves: Plays in melee or near melee range, really closer to K6 or Lee Sin than he is to Tristana. Xayah: she only has one good ability and she needs to build crit to do a lot of damage with it

Now, the ADC you're REALLY looking for is Lucian

These hybrid ADC designs from S6 are cancer, but that's not an "ADC problem", that's a "shitty champion design" problem.

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