So is there any real tradeoff to rushing Maw/hexdrinker?

Somebody Love Me·Aug 6, 2017·6 votes·940 views

So I was laning against Lucian mid as Kat, and I was doing fairly well. Had pressure on him because he was really scared. Even managed to kill him and his jungler (who was camping the shit out of me btw).

Lucian rushes hexdrinker. I still manage to kill him, though I die for it because the shield let him live long enough for Lee Sin to kill me for him. Lucian, being the pussy he was, goes on to rush the full Maw, and even though I was 6/2/2, while he was 0/4/2, he is able to 1v1 me because of the Maw shield, as well as the spell vamp that goes with it when the shield pops.

I should also note that he also had merc treads, to my tabis.

What do AD champs really lose for rushing Hexdrinker or Maw? If a mage rushes Seekers/hourglass, they lose damage and mana sustain. If an AP assassin rushes it, they lose a lot of damage and lane pressure.

18 Comments

Edge of DaybreakAug 6, 20175 votes

Anyone buying hexdrinker is delaying their big ticket damage items and chances are if they needed it it is because you are already killing them. Plus lucian in this case is a carry he is going to eventually get stronger if he is building to counter your burst.

PrinceOfStormsAug 6, 20172 votes

Hexdrinker is so cheap it doesn't delay by much- and there are a good number of AD mids that buy it early so that they can pretty safely all in any mage.

Somebody Love MeAug 6, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stabby Dude,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HXw3giUV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-06T06:54:49.959+0000)

Anyone buying hexdrinker is delaying their big ticket damage items and chances are if they needed it it is because you are already killing them. Plus lucian in this case is a carry he is going to eventually get stronger if he is building to counter your burst.

Well, in the case of an assassin, their items are really cheap. Hexdrinker is only 1300, so it isn't delaying by much. They can get Hexdrinker, as well as say...Duskblade before someone like Kat can finish her gunblade or hourglass, on even footing.

Need Gold 4 TentAug 6, 20173 votes

They lose the ability to lose to you :P

Somebody Love MeAug 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yi Shenpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HXw3giUV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-06T06:07:06.141+0000)

They lose the ability to lose to you :P

Smh I didn't even notice

Critmaster GarenAug 6, 20173 votes

the tradeoff is 1300 gold.

really, what kind of question is this? is there a tradeoff to getting any item? no. champion kits can have tradeoffs. items dont.

zxinferxzAug 6, 20171 votes

Ain't you the brightest tool in the shed. Hexdrinker completely obliterates any sort of all-in pressure for the ridiculously low cost of 1300, and Maw should scale with the player's stats to make it less of a "I rushed this to automatically win my lane" kind of deal, kind of like Sterak's, if people could rush Sterak's the same way they can rush Maw, everyone would throw a fit, but since it's only Maw and it only screws the AP champs, most people don't care

Critmaster GarenAug 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Ain't you the brightest tool in the shed. Hexdrinker completely obliterates any sort of all-in pressure for the ridiculously low cost of 1300, and Maw should scale with the player's stats to make it less of a "I rushed this to automatically win my lane" kind of deal, kind of like Sterak's, if people could rush Sterak's the same way they can rush Maw, everyone would throw a fit, but since it's only Maw and it only screws the AP champs, most people don't care

im just pointing out the flaw in the op's argument.

no item in this game has tradeoffs. a tradeoff would imply that youre giving up one thing to gain another. what tradeoff does morellos have? what tradeoff does ludens or death cap have? none.

because all items exist to support champions strengths without drawbacks.

if he wants to make a case of hexdrinker being too cheap or too easily accessible to ranged champions, thats a different thing. but thats not how he opened his discussion.

zxinferxzAug 7, 20172 votes

Items do have tradeoffs: What's the tradeoff of Mundo rushing item 3068 in lane instead of item 3742 ? That he spent a load of gold on one of the worst items in the game, instead of buying a good item, that's the tradeoff

What's the tradeoff for rushing Luden instead of Morello? That you hit harder, have more burst, but also have less mana available to use; this isn't rocket science, and your nitpick of an argument really doesn't make any sense, because you perfectly know the context of OP's question

Critmaster GarenAug 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Items do have tradeoffs: What's the tradeoff of Mundo rushing in lane instead of ? That he spent a load of gold on one of the worst items in the game, instead of buying a good item, that's the tradeoff

What's the tradeoff for rushing Luden instead of Morello? That you hit harder, have more burst, but also have less mana available to use; this isn't rocket science, and your nitpick of an argument really doesn't make any sense, because you perfectly know the context of OP's question

thats not a tradeoff though. its just how items synergize differently with champion kits.

if you buy a lichbane on garen, you havent made a tradeoff. you just bought a shitty item on him. it still increases your damage, but synergizes poorly with his kit, so it increases your damage less than a black cleaver would have.

CochoAug 6, 20173 votes

I looked at their team, you were screwed the minute that game lasted too long lmaoooo

My main focus, would have been clearing the wave and leaving that lucian to kill that weak bot lane.

I would've just bought item 1082 item 3191 (sit on this) item 3020 item 3146 and ran my ass bot every time I could lol.

Or rush a item 3135 2nd if I really needed to.

If you had a problem against the enemy team late game with your build, I would look to replacing item 3285 with item 3151 and maybe item 3089 with item 3156 or item 3065 . It looks like you needed that GA.

I like having more health later into the game rather so I just dont blow up from a flick lol

Somebody Love MeAug 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I looked at their team, you were screwed the minute that game lasted too long lmaoooo

My main focus, would have been clearing the wave and leaving that lucian to kill that weak bot lane.

I would've just bought (sit on this) and ran my ass bot every time I could lol.

Or rush a 2nd if I really needed to.

If you had a problem against the enemy team late game with your build, I would look to replacing with and maybe with or . It looks like you needed that GA.

I like having more health later into the game rather so I just dont blow up from a flick lol

Lucian wasn't really a problem tbh. After getting camped (Lee and Luc rushed Maw) I made a million trips bot and got fed as shit. Didn't really matter because the game was over when Vayne and Singed scaled. I have no problem with that.

My problem is the fact that you lose all kill pressure when the AD mid rushes Maw, and he loses nothing for it.

Somebody Love MeAug 6, 20171 votes

Also I'm new to boards. How do I reply to a comment without quoting the whole damn thing

LauchmelderAug 7, 20171 votes

Hit the reply button on the bottom-left of the post you want to answer to.

LyingOnLineAug 7, 20171 votes

Basically? Tanks walk all over them.

No penetration, bad AD, a burst shield that doesn't prevent them from getting locked up and DPSed down, and sustain that's irrelevant in anything that's not a 1v1. If it's not crit, tanks really don't give a shit.

Somebody Love MeAug 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Basically? Tanks walk all over them.

No penetration, bad AD, a burst shield that doesn't prevent them from getting locked up and DPSed down, and sustain that's irrelevant in anything that's not a 1v1. If it's not crit, tanks really don't give a shit.

But you don't buy Maw for tanks. You buy it to negate magic burst. But the thing is, while negating the burst, it also gives you 50 AD (a decent amount), even more AD when lifeline is popped, lifesteal AND spellvamp, as well as the MR you get the item for.

I feel like you're not really losing much by rushing Maw, especially in this Lucian's case, who would normally rush BORK. All he lost was the attack speed from BORK, but that's not really much of a tradeoff considering all that Maw gives.

LyingOnLineAug 7, 20171 votes

Correct. They don't buy it for tanks, which is why tanks walk all over them.

Somebody Love MeAug 8, 20171 votes