Veigar, the Master of Evil and Trumping Two Ultimates with One Normal Skill

CitadelOfIce··3 votes·1,130 views

Okay, we all know the little black mage known as Veigar Veigar . He's seen a good amount of professional play and I believe is starting to get into solo que as a power pick. And it is easy to see why. Veigars kit is very powerful, his Q is a skill shot that grants permanent AP on kill, his W calls down an ungodly amount of damage as it scales off 100% of his AP and his E creates a zone of perfect crowd control for 3 seconds. Finally we have his Ultimate skill that not only scales off 100% of his AP but also uses 80% of the targets AP resulting in it almost always one-shoting any AP biased champion that the skill hits. While I do believe that no champion should be allowed to have 100% AP scaling is excessive, especially when 2 of his 4 skills have that level of scaling, that is not my main point. What I wish to point out is that Veigar get a Crowd Control effect that has very little chance of escape and is potentially a hazard for up to 5.5 seconds after its casing. Veigar's Event Horizon creates an area of crowd control that trumps all other skills of its type, including supposed "ultimate" skills.

The first example I would like to bring up is Leona Leona. Leona's ultimate skill Solar Flare creates an instantaneous burst of crowd control that scales off 80% of her AP and only stuns targets that are in the center of it slowing all others by 80% for 1.5 seconds. In comparison Veigar's E creates an area slightly larger then Solar Flare but units cough within the skill can not pass the perimeter with the singular exception of the Flash summoner 4 summoner spell. While Event Horizon dose no damage it compensates for this by lasting a minimum of 3 seconds and leaving victims stunned for a minimum of 1.5.

The second example I will go in-depth with is Thresh Thresh. Thresh's ultimate skill The Box, is a very similar skill to Veigar's E, in fact their animation is eerily similar. The one big difference is that Thresh's box can only harm one target and deals at most 550 + 100% AP with a 99% slow for 2 seconds while anyone past the first only gets the slow. While Thresh's ultimate can be quite powerful it still lacks the zone control of Event Horizon as The Box at least can be thwarted by one member of the team biting the bullet and soaking up the damage allowing for the rest of the team to either proceed through the newly broken side of The Box or only take a 2 second slow.

In short concussion Veigar 's E, a skill a player may take at first level should they choose, out performs the ultimate skill of 2 other AP biased champions who, while having very different play stiles from each other as well as Veigar, are still easily comparable. Should Riot see the validity of this argument or at the very least seek to humor the idea of making things seem a bit more fair, I propose that Veigar's E be maid so that if the edge lands on a unit they are stunned, but if they walk into it after they are silenced for the same duration as the stun would have been. As many of Veigars typical lane opponents are skill biased the silence would force them to flee from The "Master of Evil" rather then try to fight him. At the same time if a Veigar player was particularly skilled they could land the edge of the Event Horizon on their target resulting in the stun. This would open up opportunities for counter play as well as add another method of inducing mass silence to the game.

20 Comments

Jamaree7 votes

Question, why weren't you complaining about him the good few months since he actually started getting played?

CitadelOfIce1 votes

I was waiting to see if Riot was going to hit him with him. I don't just jump into things saying they should be changed because they are strong right now. I sat and thought about this before posting it. I think Veigars E just needs one minor tweak. I mean even increasing its cool-down so he cant spam it as much would be enough. As it is right now I've seen Veigars drop Event Horizon, miss it, get ganked, and then drop it only a few seconds later for the counter gank.

Stars Shaper5 votes

They even introduced a delay so that slowpokes could get out of the stun easily. Still failing at that? Not Veigar's fault.

Blazer Hellsing1 votes

They reduced the delay, so your point is stupid.

Stars Shaper2 votes

Since the range of ths skill is quite telegraphed I didn't even need a delay to dodge it to begin with.

Blazer Hellsing1 votes

Veigar dominating worlds atm so get ready for veigar nerfs

Stars Shaper2 votes

I really hope not. I never played him but it's one of the few guys I like to have in team and against me because I came to know about him enough to make his life hard or easy depending on with who he is standing :P

CitadelOfIce1 votes

He dosn't need nerfs in the plural. Over all his kit is fine I just think his E needs to be toned down a little. Something as small as decreasing the stun duration to match the duration of the skill would work. If the wall is up for 1.5 seconds and you get Lee kicked into it have the stun end when the wall goes away not 1 second after. That way if you land it early you still get a long stun.

Iota Theta2 votes

You realize the last time they reduced the delay on his stun was in patch 5.5. The delay on Dark Matter, his meteor, was what was reduced recently in patch 5.18

Lugg4 votes

Fizz Yasuo Alistar Chogath Ekko Gangplank Jinx Leblanc Lulu MasterYi Mordekaiser Morgana Nidalee Riven TahmKench Varus Vayne Viktor all have normal abilities that are similar to ultimates.

Blazer Hellsing2 votes

Those champions dont have high winrate.

Lugg2 votes

You have to be kidding.

Ralanr2 votes

I know I laughed.

Chuck Charles3 votes

all blinks get through event horizon. fizz can troll poll through it as well. unstoppable things like vi ult and malph ult also go through it. event horizon functions perfectly fine. veigar creates a zone of protection around himself. if he places it wrong he is screwed. even if he does he might still be screwed if he is being flanked from multiple spots. people forget how vulnerable veigar is without his horizon and even with it. He has no mobility and simply raw damage and zoning.

the real issue I feel with event horizon is the cooldown is really really short cuz you build max CDR on veigar and i believe its around an 8 second cooldown which is pretty short for how strong it is.

CitadelOfIce1 votes

Actually Fizz cant hop over the wall last time I saw one try it. Also Kha'Zix cant jump over it, and I don't think Tristana can either but that one I've only heard by word of mouth. If they fixed it so that Champions with a jump skill could vault the walls then that would at least give us something to work with. Right now its only a very limited handful of champions that can get out with out getting stunned. Vi can blast through but still gets stunned, and the stun is what kills with his 100% AP ratio. You'd need to one shot him or he'll just turn around and drop a star on your face.

I do agree that increasing the cool-down would be enough to balance him out, my example of making it so you had to land it on the guy to get the stun was just the first example I could think of. I just think he needs something to make the E a little more balanced.

Chuck Charles1 votes

{quoted}

Actually Fizz cant hop over the wall last time I saw one try it. Also Kha'Zix cant jump over it, and I don't think Tristana can either but that one I've only heard by word of mouth. If they fixed it so that Champions with a jump skill could vault the walls then that would at least give us something to work with. Right now its only a very limited handful of champions that can get out with out getting stunned. Vi can blast through but still gets stunned, and the stun is what kills with his 100% AP ratio. You'd need to one shot him or he'll just turn around and drop a star on your face.

I do agree that increasing the cool-down would be enough to balance him out, my example of making it so you had to land it on the guy to get the stun was just the first example I could think of. I just think he needs something to make the E a little more balanced.

yes fizz can, look at first c9 vs ahq game of worlds. if you time the playful part of it you are untargetable on top of the stun and become targetable off the stun. west door did it multiple times.

Blazer Hellsing2 votes

Veigar is retarded and OP.

MrTortellíní1 votes

This might as well have been your only post in this thread. Veigar's strength lies in drawing out the game so that he can farm ap. All you need to to in order to beat him is stay out of his potential stun range until you can lock him down and kill him. He has no mobility besides flash so if you dodge his stun all he can do is waddle away and hope you don't catch him. Don't approach him if you have alot of AP and don't know if his ult is up (unless you know how to use zhonya's) because you will get surprised. Don't move predictably so that you always dodge his w. If you don't have the tools needed to avoid his ult's damage then you shouldn't try to duel him. If you let him farm his q all game and keep walking into his already set up stun, then you don't have the mechanics needed to outplay him.

Blazer Hellsing1 votes

stfu he will get nerfed, Meddler confirmed it hahahaha, stay mad freelo abuser.

Sinister Anubis1 votes

Comparing a mage to supports lolz.

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