The thing I hate most about Worlds time

chipndip1·Aug 31, 2019·42 votes·15,171 views

Everyone on these boards act brand new every dang year like we don't know that changes at this time are catered to making Worlds not boring to watch. "Why is Riven getting buffed?" "Why are they buffing Lee Sin?" "Why nerf Aatrox?" If you thought about it for 3 seconds, it's Worlds time soon and they're making small shifts here and there for the Worlds patch. Solo queue focused work comes around after that while Riot then starts to prepare for the preseason of next year.

We should KNOW this by now. It's 2019. We shouldn't be at a loss for how things go in 2019.

62 Comments

FSRERAug 31, 201913 votes

The only thing that makes me excited for worlds 2019 is Dumbs.

Metal JannaAug 31, 201911 votes

True that... I wonder which hook support will be given the few seconds of CD buff they need to chain CC infinitely this time?

Pendergast891Aug 31, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HW8ABzQI,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-31T04:30:19.359+0000)

True that... I wonder which hook support will be given the few seconds of CD buff they need to chain CC infinitely this time?

my bet is thresh or pyke. Maybe a lux q mana and/or cd buff

ProfDrDeathAug 31, 20191 votes

Does your name reference 891 Riverside Drive?

Pendergast891Aug 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Does your name reference 891 Riverside Drive?

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Lord SesshomaruAug 31, 20199 votes

I think it's not so much that people don't understand that the balance changes are for worlds (I mean Riot quite literally states that it is), I think their problem is that Riot is making significant changes that affect millions of players, just for the sake of less than a hundred people, for a couple of weeks in the spotlight.

Buffing Lee Sin might be nice for the 15 or so Junglers in worlds, but it negatively affects millions of players around the world as well.

I think that is the crux of people's complaints. That Riot would rather please a handful of pros, than the majority of their loyal player-base.

musixxalAug 31, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Sesshomaru,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HW8ABzQI,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-31T09:25:02.897+0000)

I think it's not so much that people don't understand that the balance changes are for worlds (I mean Riot quite literally states that it is), I think their problem is that Riot is making significant changes that affect millions of players, just for the sake of less than a hundred people, for a couple of weeks in the spotlight.

Buffing Lee Sin might be nice for the 15 or so Junglers in worlds, but it negatively affects millions of players around the world as well.

I think that is the crux of people's complaints. That Riot would rather please a handful of pros, than the majority of their loyal player-base.

more people watch worlds than people play league surely, so your numbers aren't checking out if the benefit of the few vs the many is being weighed up. 200 million viewers for 2018 worlds allegedly. rito have yet to announce that they've exceeded their player count of 100mil so i'm going with there being more viewers than players.

Lord SesshomaruAug 31, 20193 votes

more people watch worlds than people play league surely

Sounds suspect, but if you're sure I won't argue. If that is correct, essentially what you're saying is: People who watch the games for a few weeks, are more important than all the people who actually play the game all year round?

XonraAug 31, 20192 votes

More people in China alone play League than probably all the people that watch worlds. You are very wrong.

musixxalAug 31, 20192 votes

{quoted}

More people in China alone play League than probably all the people that watch worlds. You are very wrong.

you're wrong, Google is a click away don't do this to yourself or me I detest it truly. 100 million player count is riots global numbers including China.

Kai GuyAug 31, 20191 votes

Here. You may find this helpful in the future mate. http://letmegooglethat.com/

MorticianjohnSep 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

you're wrong, Google is a click away don't do this to yourself or me I detest it truly. 100 million player count is riots global numbers including China.

I'm more curious about how the number of people who watch worlds is gathered. I bet they are counting some people multiple times as viewers drop and come back throughout the day.

DeνiruchiAug 31, 20192 votes

Remember all those missions during worlds for watching matches? That's how they do it. "Millions" of players "watching" a stream afk just to complete missions and rito luring "viewers" for statistics so people like you can later on point them out. Congratulations.

musixxalAug 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Remember all those missions during worlds for watching matches? That's how they do it. "Millions" of players "watching" a stream afk just to complete missions and rito luring "viewers" for statistics so people like you can later on point them out. Congratulations.

ok so i HAVE TO be on the client and be bothered enough to watch this thing when rito wants me to and through a source they want me to because? this doesn't account for the double the player numbers for viewership during worlds. just employ occams razor. the same thing happens with the internationals for dota where the tournament itself is more popular than the game. you can account some 20 million of that 200 million to off-site hijinks like "related" stats sites counting as viewership, rito wouldn't be the first nor the last to do that. interestingly rito are achieving these numbers before permitting gambling on match results.

chipndip1Aug 31, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Sesshomaru,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HW8ABzQI,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-31T09:25:02.897+0000)

I think it's not so much that people don't understand that the balance changes are for worlds (I mean Riot quite literally states that it is), I think their problem is that Riot is making significant changes that affect millions of players, just for the sake of less than a hundred people, for a couple of weeks in the spotlight.

Buffing Lee Sin might be nice for the 15 or so Junglers in worlds, but it negatively affects millions of players around the world as well.

I think that is the crux of people's complaints. That Riot would rather please a handful of pros, than the majority of their loyal player-base.

So just fuck over Worlds when the LCS is one of the main reasons why Riot is where it's at today?

Hell, pro League is one of the main reasons why gaming in general is where it's at today, and we fuck the whole thing over because Silver Sally and Platinum Patrick don't like Lee Sin Q's in their games? Isn't that selfish as all hell?

Lord SesshomaruAug 31, 20197 votes

LCS is one of the main reasons why Riot is where it's at today?

The only reason League of Legends and Riot even exist at all, are the millions of players worldwide playing the game. I'd say they owe much more to those players than they do to the LCS (which is essentially just glorified advertising for the game itself).

Hell, pro League is one of the main reasons why gaming in general is where it's at today

Gaming is where it is at today because of all the people who come home from school and work each day and play some games. Without that core demographic, the gaming industry is _ literally nothing_. Pro players couldn't be further from the core demographic. Quite literally the only purpose of a pro player is to be a walking billboard for the game and other related companies.

Isn't that selfish as all hell?

Isn't it more selfish that millions and millions of players worldwide have to deal with a misbalanced game, just so a handful of pros can have a mildly easier time for a couple of weeks? That is practically the definition of selfish.

chipndip1Aug 31, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Sesshomaru,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HW8ABzQI,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-08-31T15:28:10.131+0000)

The only reason League of Legends and Riot even exist at all, are the millions of players worldwide playing the game. I'd say they owe much more to those players than they do to the LCS (which is essentially just glorified advertising for the game itself).

Gaming is where it is at today because of all the people who come home from school and work each day and play some games. Without that core demographic, the gaming industry is _ literally nothing_. Pro players couldn't be further from the core demographic. Quite literally the only purpose of a pro player is to be a walking billboard for the game and other related companies.

This is the equivalent of me saying "The reason that man got his PhD is because he worked hard and studied constantly." and you following up with "He got that PhD because his parents had sex and gave birth to him."

Well NO SHIT there's a gaming industry in the first place because of people buying games. That doesn't mean that you forsake the growth and evolution of gaming as a culture because of your own selfish reasons, nor does that mean you blatantly ignore the catalysts for that growth because you're salty that a character is getting buffed.

Isn't it more selfish that millions and millions of players worldwide have to deal with a misbalanced game

The game is imbalanced BECAUSE OF SOLO QUEUE.

Do you not realize that Riot has to intentionally balance the game wrong to appease people that don't play organized 5v5's? League is a team game. You can't balance a team game around people that aren't playing as a team no matter how much you cry about it. Period. If you can't accept that, play a different game or waste more time being mad about it because there's literally no other option.

musixxalAug 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

This is the equivalent of me saying "The reason that man got his PhD is because he worked hard and studied constantly." and you following up with "He got that PhD because his parents had sex and gave birth to him."

Well NO SHIT there's a gaming industry in the first place because of people buying games. That doesn't mean that you forsake the growth and evolution of gaming as a culture because of your own selfish reasons, nor does that mean you blatantly ignore the catalysts for that growth because you're salty that a character is getting buffed.

The game is imbalanced BECAUSE OF SOLO QUEUE.

Do you not realize that Riot has to intentionally balance the game wrong to appease people that don't play organized 5v5's? League is a team game. You can't balance a team game around people that aren't playing as a team no matter how much you cry about it. Period. If you can't accept that, play a different game or waste more time being mad about it because there's literally no other option.

dontcha know you aren't allowed to mention that skill gaps in soloq present balance nightmares larger than 6 akali reworks for the dev team?

Kai GuyAug 31, 20191 votes

The game is imbalanced BECAUSE OF SOLO QUEUE.

I would strongly argue that the game is imbalanced because the game is inherently designed with Perfect imbalance as a core concept. Its a time proven method to extend a games life, MTG for example. As long as there are no game breaking outliers imbalance is acceptable and so long as players are provided the tools to counter what ever is "meta" the games health is fine.

Unless a majority of players don't realize that flexibility and adaptability are positives. But well... OTP mains who only care about climbing confuse the hell out of me. OTP because you love the kit and enjoy it. Because its fun. OTP just because of a tier list to try and make Challenger is absolutely insane and just sounds miserable to me.

Metagameing used to be taking outside game knowledge to give yourself an edge. Rock is the most commonly thrown hand? You throw paper. Meta now apparently means mindlessly obeying what everybody else does and throwing rock as well. -sips tea- but that none of my business.

chipndip1Aug 31, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HW8ABzQI,comment-id=00030001000000000001,timestamp=2019-08-31T18:54:53.161+0000)

I would strongly argue that the game is imbalanced because the game is inherently designed with Perfect imbalance as a core concept. Its a time proven method to extend a games life, MTG for example. As long as there are no game breaking outliers imbalance is acceptable and so long as players are provided the tools to counter what ever is "meta" the games health is fine.

That isn't "perfect imbalance". That's just balance. Good game balancing does not suggest that everything has a perfectly equal chance of winning. Good game balance suggests that different picks and/or strategies have reasonable odds of winning. The better the game balance, the more this holds true, but it's impossible to have a game state where a game's perfectly balanced.

Unless a majority of players don't realize that flexibility and adaptability are positives. But well... OTP mains who only care about climbing confuse the hell out of me. OTP because you love the kit and enjoy it. Because its fun. OTP just because of a tier list to try and make Challenger is absolutely insane and just sounds miserable to me.

Metagameing used to be taking outside game knowledge to give yourself an edge. Rock is the most commonly thrown hand? You throw paper. Meta now apparently means mindlessly obeying what everybody else does and throwing rock as well. -sips tea- but that none of my business.

That's kind of off-topic, but it does help reemphasize the point that things like 1-tricks and rigid teammates are part of why "balancing the game" has proven so difficult. People in organized games try different strategies and work around different strengths and weaknesses. People in solo queue will take their Riven pick or their Akali pick or their Volibear pick and put that shit on everything like BBQ sauce. If it works? Great, the game's shit because they can put that shit on everything. It didn't work? Great, the game's shit because I can't play my champion.

There's a good deal of strategic elements that should round out some of the rough edges of the game that don't apply to the solo queue mindset and I don't understand why this isn't understood.

Kai GuyAug 31, 20192 votes

The designer concept still Needs to be clarified because far FAR to many folks think Balance = 50% for all things or Balance = Identical viability and power curve.

Its like they never played a fighter or class in RPGs.

There's a good deal of strategic elements that should round out some of the rough edges of the game that don't apply to the solo queue mindset and I don't understand why this isn't understood.

Because its Autofill keeping them down, not their inability to function if their single useful pick is banned/taken/countered. Back in pick order times you got flamed if you came into ranked with out the skill set for multiple roles cuz there was no assurance on getting your position.

Want to climb as high as you can as fast as you can. OTP your best champ. Want to be better at the game. Learn multiple roles and champions. The two are different things.

chipndip1Aug 31, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HW8ABzQI,comment-id=0003000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-31T20:25:21.392+0000)

The designer concept still Needs to be clarified because far FAR to many folks think Balance = 50% for all things or Balance = Identical viability and power curve.

Its like they never played a fighter or class in RPGs.

Well, I've done both extensively, so I guess that's where I differ from the boards.

Because its Autofill keeping them down, not their inability to function if their single useful pick is banned/taken/countered. Back in pick order times you got flamed if you came into ranked with out the skill set for multiple roles cuz there was no assurance on getting your position.

Want to climb as high as you can as fast as you can. OTP your best champ. Want to be better at the game. Learn multiple roles and champions. The two are different things.

You can blame positional queues, but that doesn't necessarily matter in the long run.

The positions aren't the problem. The champion classes within those roles are, in the sense that people just pick their favorite pick in that lane and go to work on it. I personally pick utility picks so it effects me less, but I'm not perfect, and I also could draft better if I was better at different types of champions. That doesn't stop me from finding strategic workarounds for my shortcomings whenever I can. It's a mindset problem more than it's anything else, although positional queues allow people to break from their comfort zones even less than they used to.

Example: Yesterday, I was playing Poppy in ranked and the enemy got second pick, so they picked Neeko top with Glacial. The enemy mid was Yasuo and my mid was Malzahar. Now, as someone that ALSO throws out the occasional Neeko top...I know I'm about to get ran over. I have 3 options.

Get ran over and come to the boards to cry about mages in the top lane later.
Take some early game sustain and try to tough it out as long as I can.
Lane swap so Malzahar doesn't get ran on by Yasuo and I don't get ran on by Neeko.

Picked 3. Won the game. Felt good. People don't even think about what they can do outside of the things they always do. It's a lousy mindset to have, and solo queue reinforces this mindset instead of one focused around team work in a team game.

Tomoe GozenAug 31, 20191 votes

I like the fact how you make is seem as if "the core demographic" is the only party that needs to be catered to. As much as you'd like to believe we're the lifeblood of the gaming community that plays games, our participation would be worth nothing if we didn't actually have a game to play in the first place. A machine without cogs won't run and cogs without a machine are just scrap metal. It's a closed system that needs both things in order to work.

We all have to suffer from time to time. It's just how life is. It's how you adapt to the changes that makes you who you are. If you have a problem with a champion, you can ban them or learn to play around them. That's what the bans are for.

Isn't it more selfish that millions and millions of players worldwide have to deal with a misbalanced game, just so a handful of pros can have a mildly easier time for a couple of weeks?

You answered your own question, right there. If the pro scene is the advertisement for this game, why do you think millions of players who do not advertise League need to be catered to? If you wanted the simplest math, there it is. But this issue here is far from being as simple as that.

Lord SesshomaruAug 31, 20191 votes

I like the fact how you make is seem as if "the core demographic" is the only party that needs to be catered to.

I'm not saying 'Ignore the pros', I'm saying find the common ground, buff/nerf champions in pro play that WONT wreak havoc in the game proper. But if it comes to one or the other, the vast vast vast majority of the community should have priority when it comes to balance changes. (and the pros can waste THEIR ban instead)

If the pro scene is the advertisement for this game, why do you think millions of players who do not advertise League need to be catered to? If you wanted the simplest math, there it is. But this issue here is far from being as simple as that.

You're joking right? By far the biggest advertisement for league is word of mouth. The promo videos on YouTube, the LCS etc are peanuts compared to friends getting friends into the game, and in time those friends bringing their friends etc. The LCS just creates hype.

The game became popular without pro-play, it isn't required for the enjoyment of the game. Of course, I'm sure creating that hype extends the lifespan of league, but it by no means made the the game what it is today.

If someone isn't interested in league at all, they're not going to watch worlds, and if they're interested in league, chances are they've probably played it at some point.

mark6028Aug 31, 20193 votes

{quoted}

So just fuck over Worlds when the LCS is one of the main reasons why Riot is where it's at today?

Hell, pro League is one of the main reasons why gaming in general is where it's at today, and we fuck the whole thing over because Silver Sally and Platinum Patrick don't like Lee Sin Q's in their games? Isn't that selfish as all hell?

What?

LCS has only lost them money every single year. Riot is basically bruteforcing LCS to be popular. Riot should have invested more into their content creators freely advertising and drawing people to the game instead of losing money on LCS and despite all their effort pro play is at its lowest it's ever been. Regular LCS matches in season 5 would have 300-500k viewers when now the finals barely break 200k on twitch but oh wait it was all viewbots back then. Now 180 billion chinese drones watching MSI finals are realistic numbers tho x)

Ofc riot has to be given credit as well as dota mind u that esports transitioned from back in my days were we were sitting in some fuckin abandoned factory building with a hundred people playing over LAN to huge stadiums what it is now but not at the cost of their core audience because shockingly there are people playing above platinum and above d4 who want to have fun with the game and not pick 20 champions determined by riot to be the best fuckin thing ever or go fuck yourself.

As everything there needs to be some kind of balance and how hard riot fucked the core gameplay in hopes of making pro play more appealing WHILE ACHIEVING THE EXACT OPPOSITE is hilarious at best and extremely sad for the passionate fans and players at worst.

Edit: To your other comment you are literally rewriting history now it's hilarious really. It's not "imbalanced" because of soloQ it is imbalanced BECAUSE OF PRO PLAY. The exact opposite happened. Pro play was top tier soloQ gameplay at best. Riot FORCED THE TEAM ASPECT into the game changing the core gameplay around organized 5v5 gameplay instead of 1v9 solo carry with a bit of teamwork in there. Now we can argue about pros and cons of either direction but don't fuckin come here years later and tell people to look for another game if they can't accept pro play is where the game should be balanced around. LEAGUE WAS POPULAR BECAUSE OF SOLOQ RANKED, PRO PLAY CAME LATER AFTER HUGE INVESTMENTS FROM RIOT AND CHANGING THE CORE GAMEPLAY TO FIT PRO PLAY NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND.

Holy shit man.

ModCaptainMårvelousAug 31, 20196 votes

Caters to PUB play year round. "zzzz rito never listen 2 us"

Makes balance changes focused around pros for around 1-2 months. "WTF RIOT CATER TO LC$ YET AGAIN".

RagnaveilAug 31, 20195 votes

Alright, so lets buff Riven because she was "bad" for a patch, but leave Aatrox in the dumpster for 3, 4 patches (everyone remembers that)? Nothing could ever convince me more that they are trying to heavy cater to Riven mains so they can make more flashy plays and drive more toplaners insane than this.

Tomoe GozenAug 31, 20192 votes

Regardless on how you feel about Riven, she is underperforming. She's only a pro pick in very narrow matchups.

RagnaveilAug 31, 20192 votes

And I could care less if she was right now. She was left without an actual nerf for 12 fucking patches. 12 patches in total where she was the Queen of Toplane.

GelsominoKillerAug 31, 201927 votes

{quoted}

Caters to PUB play year round. "zzzz rito never listen 2 us"

Makes balance changes focused around pros for around 1-2 months. "WTF RIOT CATER TO LC$ YET AGAIN".

This would be a reasonable strawman if only the first sentence wasn't completely, utterly, shamelessly made up.

Considering that balance changes this year were heavily (I stress, heavily) centered around proplay issues. We witnessed an endless stream of changes/mini reworks for the usual Aatrox, Akali, Tham, Galio, Puke etc.

Those guys have an immense presence in the balance patches (I believe Aatrox has a ~50% presence in patch notes since his rework released), and they suck up all the developer time for more deserving, less problematic champions that would benefit a lot more from similar scope of changes/attention.

Instead we gotta try yet another iteration for Aatrox, god forbid working on carving niches and updating long forgotten, low pickrate champions made outdated by stupid power creep.

chipndip1Aug 31, 20193 votes

{quoted}

This would be a reasonable strawman if only the first sentence wasn't completely, utterly, shamelessly made up.

Considering that balance changes this year were heavily (I stress, heavily) centered around proplay issues. We witnessed an endless stream of changes/mini reworks for the usual Aatrox, Akali, Tham, Galio, Puke etc.

They've been making those changes to those champions because they've been trying to close the gap between solo queue and pro play performance on those champions for months. They've also been making changes to remove solo queue frustration for some of those champions, like Tham and Akali.

They always make some pro play changes...but who said they aren't making solo queue oriented changes all the time, either? It's a mix of both all year round save for this time of year. To say otherwise on either side is disingenuous.

GelsominoKillerAug 31, 20195 votes

{quoted}

They've been making those changes to those champions because they've been trying to close the gap between solo queue and pro play performance on those champions for months. They've also been making changes to remove solo queue frustration for some of those champions, like Tham and Akali.

They always make some pro play changes...but who said they aren't making solo queue oriented changes all the time, either? It's a mix of both all year round save for this time of year. To say otherwise on either side is disingenuous.

You want to know how Morello would have handled Aatrox?

Let's go back in time, to a time when balancing this game was a serious things, with principles and direction.

Morello notices a month-long 100% Aatrox pick/banrate on proplay. Then, he tries a round of changes or two. When he realizes that those changes are ineffective, bam! The Nerf bat hits Aatrox hard, and he's "Olafed": basically unplayable due to crippled numbers.

He concludes that there is a deep rooted issue in Aatrox kit and that can only be solved with systematic work of appropriate scale.

We're talking about a champion that has dominanted (and by dominanted, I mean that had 90%+ pick/banrate) the toplane in the pro scene, for more than a year now, despite countless nerfs and several mini reworks. He's an issue for the variety and integrity of competitive league that has been left in an unacceptable state for too long.

chipndip1Aug 31, 20192 votes

{quoted}

You want to know how Morello would have handled Aatrox?

Let's go back in time, to a time when balancing this game was a serious things, with principles and direction.

Morello notices a month-long 100% Aatrox pick/banrate on proplay. Then, he tries a round of changes or two. When he realizes that those changes are ineffective, bam! The Nerf bat hits Aatrox hard, and he's "Olafed": basically unplayable due to crippled numbers.

He concludes that there is a deep rooted issue in Aatrox kit and that can only be solved with systematic work of appropriate scale.

We're talking about a champion that has dominanted (and by dominanted, I mean that had 90%+ pick/banrate) the toplane in the pro scene, for more than a year now, despite countless nerfs and several mini reworks. He's an issue for the variety and integrity of competitive league that has been left in an unacceptable state for too long.

So, after people have complained about "Olaf/Sejauni/Zac/Poppy/Whatever'ing" champions to the point of unviability, Riot decides "We'll be less destructive to champions because people like these champions". Now that they AREN'T shoving champions into the pit of uselessness, we now start complaining that they...aren't shoving champions in the pit of uselessness, and that they should start doing this again.

Imagine if they started doing this and targeted champs you DIDN'T want them to target, like Kench? It's easy to tear down someone else's fun. It ain't so easy when it's potentially YOUR fun, so why wish that on someone else's champion?

GelsominoKillerAug 31, 20192 votes

{quoted}

So, after people have complained about "Olaf/Sejauni/Zac/Poppy/Whatever-the-fuck'ing" champions to the point of unviability, Riot decides "We'll be less destructive to champions because people like these champions". Now that they AREN'T shoving champions into the pit of uselessness, we now start complaining that they...aren't shoving champions in the pit of uselessness, and that they should start doing this again.

Imagine if they started doing this and targeted champs you DIDN'T want them to target, like Kench? It's easy to tear down someone else's fun. It ain't so easy when it's potentially YOUR fun, so why wish that on someone else's champion?

I used to play the shit out of Rengar when he was an "Olafed" trollpick, many years ago. I loved Galio to death, and was incredibly sad when he was slowly made unplayable. I wish they didn't bench the Kench, because Kench is life.

But I understand and accept when those measures become necessary.

Rengar stealth bursting from point blank was incompatible with league standards at the time.

Both Kench and Galio polarized proplay for too long (even if the case of Galio is a bit... More complicated).

When the time comes, you gotta pull the plug. Because the alternative in this case is dedicating way too much time in solving with endless trial and error problems that can't be solved.

In all honesty, how many nerfs and mini reworks did Aatrox endure? Did they matter? Did all this time spent on him made him anything less then an absolute monster in pro? No.

What I'm saying is that when you try multiple times and get zero progress (Aatrox even lost his iconic revive and he's stronger than ever), moving on is the only reasonable way.

Tomoe GozenAug 31, 20192 votes

It's funny how now Morello's work is being praised when in the past, when this person is saying we need to "time travel to", the community dreaded champions being "Olaf'd" and "Sejuani'd". I have nothing against Morello and i'd personally love to hear from him again since he's in the D&D trenches for who knows how long and he may or may have not seen the sun in years.

But it's also funny how the community now goes full circle on things they used to dislike because now, Riot's not destroying champions with a nerf bat and calling it "unbalance-able mess that needs deeper, systematic changes". What years ago (previously) used to be called reckless and forceful removal of champions from their top (and bottom) spots, is now actually being encouraged by the same community because they just don't like seeing Aatrox in top lane, in pro play for months.

Riot's definitely trying to bridge the gap between pro and "casual" and they don't want to be forced to pretend there's only a pro version of specific champions and leaving it at that for a long period of time. Ryze almost ended up on that slab.

chipndip1Aug 31, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HW8ABzQI,comment-id=000400010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-08-31T22:39:04.650+0000)

It's funny how now Morello's work is being praised when in the past, when this person is saying we need to "time travel to", the community dreaded champions being "Olaf'd" and "Sejuani'd". I have nothing against Morello and i'd personally love to hear from him again since he's in the D&D trenches for who knows how long and he may or may have not seen the sun in years.

But it's also funny how the community now goes full circle on things they used to dislike because now, Riot's not destroying champions with a nerf bat and calling it "unbalance-able mess that needs deeper, systematic changes". What years ago (previously) used to be called reckless and forceful removal of champions from their top (and bottom) spots, is now actually being encouraged by the same community because they just don't like seeing Aatrox in top lane, in pro play for months.

Riot's definitely trying to bridge the gap between pro and "casual" and they don't want to be forced to pretend there's only a pro version of specific champions and leaving it at that for a long period of time. Ryze almost ended up on that slab.

This entire post is true. A lot of the work Riot's done is to try to make things good enough for both realms.

musixxalSep 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HW8ABzQI,comment-id=000400010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-08-31T22:39:04.650+0000)

It's funny how now Morello's work is being praised when in the past, when this person is saying we need to "time travel to", the community dreaded champions being "Olaf'd" and "Sejuani'd". I have nothing against Morello and i'd personally love to hear from him again since he's in the D&D trenches for who knows how long and he may or may have not seen the sun in years.

But it's also funny how the community now goes full circle on things they used to dislike because now, Riot's not destroying champions with a nerf bat and calling it "unbalance-able mess that needs deeper, systematic changes". What years ago (previously) used to be called reckless and forceful removal of champions from their top (and bottom) spots, is now actually being encouraged by the same community because they just don't like seeing Aatrox in top lane, in pro play for months.

Riot's definitely trying to bridge the gap between pro and "casual" and they don't want to be forced to pretend there's only a pro version of specific champions and leaving it at that for a long period of time. Ryze almost ended up on that slab.

i don't mind champions not getting olaf'd, or if we really take it back in time getting eve'd. lol I still remember buying eve way back and being disappointed that she was a troll pick for the then foreseeable future in season 2. i could understand that approach to potential problem champions in the past because the roster wasn't as varied, now I don't mind problem champs because I must surely have a pick to deal with even the overloaded champs, perhaps an overloaded champ of my own.

today I only complain about things that are genuinely unplayable like true stealth, where all my potential solutions in every role cannot do anything against the mechanic over the course of a game and the advertised solution is to n not interact at all. and I make sure there are observations of all player presented solutions failing. there's very little in the game that does that now, you can probably count it on one hand and riven doesn't make the cut but the boards would start a flame war at the idea.

XonraAug 31, 20197 votes

Except the part where they dont cater to anyone but pro players 80% of the time the rest of the year these days. They even say as much so not sure what you are on about

Kai GuyAug 31, 20191 votes

I was under the impression they balance a majority of the game around Plat and Diamond MMR.

LatetotheRaceAug 31, 20191 votes

Moderators are getting more and more pandering towards blind riotism. Really kind of depressing, but understandable from someone who has to lick feet to keep their position.

ModCaptainMårvelousSep 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Moderators are getting more and more pandering towards blind riotism. Really kind of depressing, but understandable from someone who has to lick feet to keep their position.

It's less "blatant pandering" and more so facts.

Truth is Riot has always catered far too much to casuals, much to the detriment of game health, and now we're at the point in the games life cycle where further catering to casual play is going to do irreparable damage to the game because a casual playerbase will always move on while pros are left with a game that attempted to chase that market.

WoW classic perfect example of this: Blizzard spent years chasing after the casual market and constantly making changes to benefit said market. Fewer people play now than their peak. Yet a return to the good/original market (Notice that most of the people playing WoW classic aren't casuals but the most dedicated hardcore crowd) is met with applause.

If anything, Riot caters far too much to casuals and it's about time they start focusing on good play. Hell, doesn't even have to be pro scene: Diamond 2+ is a great metric. Plat's certainly not high ranking and medium plat balancing is a joke. Just ask any high-ranking streamer, pro or even board users here.

LatetotheRaceSep 2, 20191 votes

The crime is not in the balancing towards casuals, or professionals. It's the fact that for years riot couldn't decide on one or the other.

I've also heard that there's some potential that the Pro scene itself does not produce any real money for the company as a whole leaving the income to come from casuals. So as long as the game is still visually appealing from proplay/advertisements then they could easily justify balancing for casuals.

Personally I'd advocate for better casual balance simply because the longer someone plays this game the more they get invested into skins and champions as a whole, driving more $$$. I'm no business tycoon, but I'm pretty sure it's just follow the money right?

(Final note, I'm pretty sure that streamers drive more players over proplay and the good streamers have dropped like flies overtime. The top ones we've got left are objectively terrible and more often than not terrible people.)

MasterDCloneSep 1, 20191 votes

i've actually been noticing the opposite lol, there was that tft bashing thread a couple days ago, there was the state of the game post a few weeks ago. Actually now that I think about it most mods have opinions that aren't that different from the average players

LatetotheRaceSep 2, 20191 votes

I'll just say that we may be looking at different threads as a whole or perhaps see it differently. -Shrug-

chipndip1Sep 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Moderators are getting more and more pandering towards blind riotism. Really kind of depressing, but understandable from someone who has to lick feet to keep their position.

Blind Riotism? I used to make massive threads just to complain about shit I didn't like. Like essays over shit I didn't like. I just feel like the boards lack self-awareness. Why should I complain about stuff I don't like about the game when you guys do it for me 75 times over? I'd rather just use my posts for something else.

Rock MDSep 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Moderators are getting more and more pandering towards blind riotism. Really kind of depressing, but understandable from someone who has to lick feet to keep their position.

Disliking boards' balance philosophy =/= pandering to Riot. It just means the person doesn't snack on paint chips while posting.

Boards complains and boards whines and boards isn't even close to right about the things it's upset about. It's literally rose-tinted glasses conservatism stylized romanticism about a time when, "the game was just better" without addressing the terrible things about the game at the time, and what it'd look like now if that sort of system was still in the game.

One of my favorites is masteries. You know what the complaint about masteries and runes were back in the day?

They're expensive
They're boring
They don't lend weight to gameplay, they only paywall new players

Players asked for them to be removed because they didn't like them, but you know what Riot did? They made them cheaper, and last season they made them free. They made them simpler, more dynamic, fewer noobtrap runes, and they actually have timers (where they are and aren't off CD), and they bring more to the gameplay.

So while older players didn't like the route Riot took, they respected it because it solved a lot of the issues they had with runes. The only issues they had (and they were right about this) is that there's too much sustain and that's part of what's making this meta so stale.

You know what newer players are saying about runes? To revert them. 1% crit chance was an "interesting choice" and being able to pick from a wide pool of noobtrap runes was "interesting and customizable."

I respect the older players who had their own opinion about what to do with runes because they were trying something new.

I don't respect newer players whose phenomenal idea of balance is to go back to old garbage because they don't like new garbage, especially when they have completely warped ideas about how "great" old garbage was. This is 90% of boards posts. Long-term mods such as Cap feel the same way.

LatetotheRaceSep 2, 20191 votes

Older players simply want the runes removed, it makes balancing a nightmare, and since the balancing team has 0 foresight for how things indirectly effect the others. That way they have little to no excuse in the terms of balancing a champion correctly, as the champions stats are the only thing that need to be changed.

That being said, my overall opinion of the Fmods isn't just about game balance, it's about their blind backing of the automated report system, monetization, blind story reworks, etc etc.

It almost feels like the lot of them are either controlled by the same person, or brownie point positions for low level rioters.

we havent metSep 1, 20191 votes

They primarily focus balance on pro/high elo play. please stop talking you sound super ill informed here. Not a good look

Daddy AntsSep 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serpentine Queen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HW8ABzQI,comment-id=00040005,timestamp=2019-09-01T01:26:53.864+0000)

They primarily focus balance on pro/high elo play. please stop talking you sound super ill informed here. Not a good look

They do balance around average and skilled play.

Evelynn's recent nerf was aimed at that level of play for example.

Xplosion101Aug 31, 20191 votes

Why don't they apply said changes to a specifically modified patch for Worlds only? Seriously... I don't get this. Why not have two versions of League, one for Pro Play events and one for us common peasants? I mean, it would solve many balacing issues and also I think most people wouldn't mind not playing the exact same game as the pros.