I'm doubting ancient coin as a viable choice

Brascus·May 22, 2017·9 votes·731 views

Can set up your movements to be more predictable to pick up the coins, which grants additional zoning power to the enemy laners, allowing them to possibly gold starve you significantly more than the old bandit+ancient coin combo.

https://i.imgflip.com/m36dg.jpg

How about every time you get hit per x seconds, the attacker drops a coin, so tank supports are rewarded for being the meat shields they're meant to be?

Your allies can pick up the coins for you, so if you did your duty and tanked all the damage, allowing your ADC to pick up the double kill they can pick up your coins after sweeping up.

31 Comments

KoKobotoMay 22, 20174 votes

Meh, it's just like Thresh playing for souls, Nasus playing for stacks, Veigar playing for stacks, Sion playing for stacks etc.

Except it's easier to get coins than it is for Thresh to get souls.

BrascusMay 22, 20171 votes

Aren't gold items there to help the fact supports don't farm? Does this item not make it more problematic compared to the others?

DeathBurstMay 22, 20172 votes

No it does not. It's not harder to collect gold than it is to proc Spellthief or get in range of minions to proc Relic Shield. Just try it.

GreatWhiteNorthMay 22, 20172 votes

BAM Doublekill

BrascusMay 22, 20171 votes

A I walk up and get my coin get AA'd hooked burn everything I got to get away B Play ultra aggressive, losing control of zoning and positioning C I just don't get my coin D Just get 1 of the other two gold items

DeathBurstMay 22, 20172 votes

You can pick up the coin in a radius of 200-300 units, you don't need to walk right over it. Largely enough to dodge/bait skill-shots and stay out of range of AAs.

Do try it and come back after that. 'cause all I can see on your profile is Bot games playing Darius, so not exactly the most relevant experience to complain about how Ancient Coin works. I did try it myself, and it's really not as bad as it sounds on paper. It's not harder to pick up coins than it is to proc the other gold items, like not at all. Relic Shield forces you to get in melee range of the minions (typically 125 units), so even closer than Ancient Coin, and Spellthief forces you to interact with enemy champions, not just minions.

KoKobotoMay 22, 20171 votes

You're over exaggerating. I can show you how viable coin is from my experience with a very selfish Janna build if you'd like. Also if coin was really that bad we would've saw a decrease in win rate for supports like Janna or Soraka but nope not really. Decrease by 1% but they're still above 50% which sounds like a good place to me.

KoKobotoMay 22, 20171 votes

I don't see a huge problem. Your main point in OP is that "Can set up your movements to be more predictable to pick up the coins, which grants additional zoning power to the enemy laners, allowing them to possibly gold starve you significantly more than the old bandit+ancient coin combo".

All I can say to that is play around it, coins stay on the ground for a very long time in comparison to a Thresh soul and you can pick them up from further range as the game goes on. It is similar to how an ADC farms but all you have to do is walk up a bit. If you know the enemy is trying to punish you for every coin (which is frankly a waste of time in my experience) than don't move up to pick up every coin right away. Wait for the carry to focus CS or wait for the support to back off. If the enemy support plays in the minion wave your support should be able to harass for free. Try to zone them off with your abilities first like Janna tornado or Soraka Q than go get the coin.

Also what do you mean farming? I guess there is a problem here because farming when you have this item does not stop the gold generation passive. However the item gives no stats so idk. Also you don't even need to worry about whether or not your carry can farm. All allied units proc the coin drop, even minions.

EschetonMay 22, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Meh, it's just like Thresh playing for souls, Nasus playing for stacks, Veigar playing for stacks, Sion playing for stacks etc.

Except it's easier to get coins than it is for Thresh to get souls.

But Thresh can just lantern an area to fish for souls. Safely and at the cost of a cooldown and some mana. But safely.

BrascusMay 22, 20171 votes

https://www.askideas.com/media/48/Funny-Safety-Meme-Safety-First-If-Not-Your-Gonna-Have-A-Bad-Time-Picture.jpg

Fondling GemsMay 22, 20175 votes

Yes but coins have a longer pickup range and last quite a bit longer than souls. As such if enemies want to zone you off of them they have to sacrifice their positioning far longer than they have to do for Thresh souls.

KoKobotoMay 22, 20171 votes

If I ever saw a Thresh casually using his lantern to pick up souls I'd be face palming hard. 22S CD at rank 1 and you max the ability last. Such a powerful ability used like that, Thresh would start losing the lane. It's okay if you're on the back foot and using it, for example the wave is pushing towards you, but still. Overall can't compare that to picking up coins.

You can still safely pick up coins as a passive support, Janna Tornado and move up, Soraka Q (force the enemy to move) and get the coin.

SarchiaponMay 22, 20173 votes

It's interesting that in a meta that anyone is calling "early stomp and whoever get first tower wins" it was considered a viable strategy to play passive with old coin. Still, it should be clear at this point that RioT would rather have a snowballing game where being passive is discouraged than a slog that last 50 minutes and it's mostly a stalemate. Can't say i don't agree.

BrascusMay 22, 20172 votes

I loved old coin because I could just pay attention to the map, zoning, adc and enemy champs, not worrying about getting farm. Now I must must worry about farm.

ErockandrollMay 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's interesting that in a meta that anyone is calling "early stomp and whoever get first tower wins" it was considered a viable strategy to play passive with old coin. Still, it should be clear at this point that RioT would rather have a snowballing game where being passive is discouraged than a slog that last 50 minutes and it's mostly a stalemate. Can't say i don't agree.

Playing passive kinda forces a stalemate. It's not a strat that should be innately good, rather just something to stall for time. Though breaking that stale mate seems a little easier because of first tower blood, and the pench for diving the bot lane. But that said, passive supports can be super annoying, to deal with, simply because playing passive gives them enough safety.

An example would be raka. Her kit being a Health battery is obnoxious if she's allowed to be that passive. You can't focus her ADC because she's keep healing him up, and you can't focus her if she's able to stay 3 paces behind her ADC. Which is why Riot has been trying to force her into a more active play style.

While I think Riot is making the right move, there's obvious backlash when a support who predominantly wants to play passive, doesn't have a passive gold item. However, the problem lies with the champion and not the item. Any support that Riot sees as too passive should probably be looked at for a potential update.

BrascusMay 23, 20171 votes

The counter to a stalling lane is push wave and pick another. They will either stay in lane and let another lane get rekt or they will try and aid going along the fastest path which you can hide in bush and punish them.

RalanrMay 22, 20171 votes

Yeah I'm not a fan of these quests. Not sure why Targon's has the same health requirement since it usually ends up taking longer to get gold from it than coin.

BrascusMay 22, 20172 votes

I've never been a true fan of Relic shield because it requires a level of co operation your ADC isn't always aware of, some people just think you're stealing farm, and I've caught myself thinking the same way too.

Imagine if it was an active you placed on your adc to double up and share gold for a few seconds while granting a shield.

MysterQMay 22, 20171 votes

Thinking about. Quests are too stupid and easy. I get it, it shouldnt be something ridiculous. But it is like play mormally and you will get a new ability. I think in my mind quest just connotates so,ething diffficult which current quests are not. Maybe if if if only one team got the quest. That would be intense. Either pick a different item or you got to play better.

BrascusMay 22, 20171 votes

Like whoever finishes first? Like vying for objectives?

I can see it.

MysterQMay 22, 20171 votes

It would be way more competitive and meaningful vs just do whatever and eventually you get it. A little too competitive, maybe just give the other team a weaker version. Like instead of 50% movespeed only 25% or something.

DeathBurstMay 22, 20171 votes

The point isn't that you get your quest reward eventually. The point is that you want to get it before your opponent, to exploit the powerspike before they got theirs.

MysterQMay 22, 20171 votes

For the majority of players, that won't happen. So it is just get the quest eventually.

DeathBurstMay 22, 20171 votes

In every single game, one of the support is getting his quest before the other. Why would that not happen for a majority of players?

MysterQMay 22, 20171 votes

Exploiting the powerspike won't happen. Because the majority of players are sIlver/bronze and won't really exploit it.

NymzoMay 22, 20171 votes

''Powerspike''

A shield, a movement speed buff or a pseudo-level up is not a powerspike.

These quests are here to make our job less tedious, that's it.

ErockandrollMay 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Thinking about. Quests are too stupid and easy. I get it, it shouldnt be something ridiculous. But it is like play mormally and you will get a new ability. I think in my mind quest just connotates so,ething diffficult which current quests are not. Maybe if if if only one team got the quest. That would be intense. Either pick a different item or you got to play better.

For a group of people bashing Riot about this snowball meta, it just doesn't sound like a good idea to make quests one sided. That simply gives a big FU to the slower support. Because that quest is suppose to be a permanent boost, Making the slower team lose out, means a permanent step behind that they can't recover. (And Quests shouldn't have that permanent impact that Neutral objectives do.) However, the time between the faster and slower support completing their quest, is the main power play.

The whole purpose of the quests was to give supports a leg up, without actually having to adjust XP or gold levels. As a support main myself, I theory crafed that they should scale over time. (Imaging a support with the likes of a tear) And some supports have this time scaling in their kit, doing so task related to said supports theme. (Thresh's soul collection, Bard's chimes) So doing it in the form of Quests like this, tied to support items, is really an elegant way of performing that scaling.

MysterQMay 23, 20171 votes

I like your points.

Just Blame JennyMay 23, 20171 votes

Why does everyone seem to assume you have to collect every single coin for the item to be useful? Don't collect that ones that'll result in you dying, you silly.

BrascusMay 23, 20172 votes

A decade of super mario has conditioned me to indiscriminately collect all the coins.