Maokai needs one thing.

StoryDuck·Jul 14, 2017·3 votes·474 views

A faster base attack speed or at least a faster passive auto attack animation. I've been playing a lot of him lately and I always felt that his passive auto attack animation was SUPER clunky. Struggling a bit learning him in the jungle role I looked up some guides and advice and I have come to learn that a lot of Maokai players are picking Attack Speed ruins to fix this! How ridiculous is that? An AP tank is forced to pick attack speed ruins instead of having ruins that actually synergize with his kit like MR, AP, CDR, or Armor ruins. That is so messed up it's crazy! If his auto attacks are so bad that players need to give up ruin space for it could we please just have the attack speed added to him to fix it? Heck, probably just making the attack animation faster would fix the issue.

19 Comments

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 14, 20171 votes

tank junglers have always used attack speed runes in the jungle its nothing new ... this is old school

why take magic pen on a tank in a jungle when non of the jungle creeps have MR and you dont have AP early game to make it worth a damn

(maokai main by the way )

StoryDuckJul 14, 20171 votes

That...is really stupid. "I'm going to play a tank jungler! I better get attack speed runes!" Why is Riot okay with this? No wonder tank junglers are always second tier to all the damage junglers. They have to give up runes just to fix their damn auto attack speed. Also, it's the same for him in top lane too, AS runes.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 14, 20171 votes

a tank should be 2nd tier in damage... its the trade off you have for being a tank, having sustain, cc etc

i dont think you are understanding how you are suppose to clear jungle and or farm

even in lane you have to auto to farm. it helps

i personally i have 5 rune pages for him alone ( i can use for a few other champs) the one i use the most currently is a mixture of ad /as reds, flat hp seals, 2 armor quints 1 cdr quint. and cdr blues

i get +3.8 ad rounded to 4 , +8.5% attack speed rounded to 9%, 8.5 armor rounded to 9, 72 hp lvl 1, and 10% cdr you take that with 5 points in attack speed mastery and you take natural talent gives you more as/ad from there you build tank...

tanks have high base damages therefore really dont need AP/Magic pen in order to do damage

if you care to do damage as maokai as jungle you can run flat attack speed reds, 3 ap quints, 9 armor seals and whatever blues you want... mr vs heavy ap teams. cdr, ap per lvl etc

a build of item 1401 while taking 72hp boost the passive hp you get... then you pair that with item 3001 giving you more magic damage including more aoe magic damage from item 3751 plus more bonus hp , cdr, mana, hp, the catalyst passive that heals you when you use a spell and gives you mana when you take damage from enemy and it helps your APC or other magic damage on team do more damage too...

and if you really need more AP as a jungle such as maokai considering all of his abilities are cc/slows item 3151 does wonders cuz of magic pen, hp, ap and the dot passive % damage which all synergies with item 1401 item 3001 and the rune /master set up you take... if you dont want to take the extra attack speed with masteries take sorcery for 2% more damage on spells which will help your over all damage as well

StoryDuckJul 14, 20171 votes

Okay, that's just insulting. I know you need to use auto attacks to farm. I'm in diamond rank okay. Granted, I am currently trying to learn jungle role which I historically have not played. The problem is the auto attack animation. It's too long and cumbersome. Maokai's passive empowered auto attack in particular is very slow and much slower then his normal attack. I am now coming to learn that there is a complete break down of tank junglers all needing attack speed...and that's just wrong. There should never be a need for tank junglers to build AS.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 14, 20171 votes

he still has one of the highest base ad and attack speeds in the game

and how am i insulting you...

im trying to have a conversation over a champ and play style in jungle , somewhere some how you wanna say youre insulted and pull rank

i not once have said anything to you personally attacking you or your knowledge /skill or rank

StoryDuckJul 14, 20171 votes

i dont think you are understanding how you are suppose to clear jungle and or farm

even in lane you have to auto to farm. it helps

How is that not insulting?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 14, 20171 votes

http://lolalytics.com/champion/Maokai/Jungle/

if you look at the runes the highest win % runes for maokai is attack speed reds

StoryDuckJul 14, 20171 votes

And that is the damn problem. Why does a TANK a damn TANK need Attack speed runes? Why can he not have armor or MR? Why is everyone fine with this?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 14, 20171 votes

you do take armor and mr ... but in order to clear jungle and farm you need to auto attack just like ALL OTHER CHAMPS

StoryDuckJul 14, 20172 votes

So you think it is fine for a tank to build attack speed? You want Maokai to have less armor because you want to be forced to build attack speed? I just want to be clear what you are arguing for here. You are arguing that giving maokai attack speed is a terrible idea and that he SHOULD be forced to use attack speed runes instead of health/armor/mr runes.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 14, 20171 votes

the best runes for marks for a tank currently is attack speed not armor the armor best runes are either quints or seals

look at the stat valves of the runes

1.7% attack speed per mark or .91 armor per mark where as seals give you 1 armor per seal its a matter of what gives the best stats and most efficient in the slot the provide

marks are typically offensive runes they have most value seals are typically defensive runes they have the most value glyphys are typically utility runes / some what defensive quints are your big power runes if you are ad you want ad, if you are ap , then ap and so on...

and you get armor quints , hp seals you dont get attack speed in these type of runes

of you can go attack speed reds, armor seals and ap quints like i stated

StoryDuckJul 14, 20171 votes

You didn't answer my question. Don't avoid it just because you don't like your answer.

Do you want Maokai to have less armor because you want to be forced to build attack speed?

(also, guides and advice I have been finding recommend using quints for AS too, some are from diamond+ players, all stating the same reason. His auto attack animation is too slow.)

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 14, 20171 votes

NEVER AVOIDED THE DAMN QUESTION

HOW DO YOU HAVE LESS ARMOR BY TAKING ATTACK SPEED REDS

YOU GET ARMOR EITHER VIA SEALS/QUINTS AS I EXPLAINED THOSE GIVE YOU THE BEST VALVE OF ARMOR

and on top of ALL THIS.... YOU DONT BUILD AS IN GAME... YOU BUILD TANK/ARMOR ITEMS AND THAT IS HOW YOU GET MORE ARMOR PLUS THE SCALING OF THE CHAMP

StoryDuckJul 14, 20172 votes

It's a yes or no question. It's not hard to answer. I reread your response and you give an excellent explanation for why you pick AS reds and not armor reds. However, you didn't answer my question. Yes or no, Do you want Maokai to have less armor because you want to be forced to build attack speed?

You see, you are creating another argument while ignoring the original intent of my post. Maokai shouldn't be required to build AS. He should be free to get armor reds. He shouldn't have to use quints for AS. I understand that these AS reds are to help his early clear speed but the fact is, maokai has great clear speed without (why do you even need that AS when your 1 rank into E is so powerful early?). However, later his awkward and clumsy attack animation pretty much freezes him up causing a self stun for a moment for every attack. His passive attack in particular has an even slower animation then his normal auto attack and it can be really punishing. I see why AS runes help that isn't the problem. My problem is that he even needs them in the first place.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJul 14, 20171 votes

how does he lose armor by taking attack speed... that question make zero sense

are you going to take armor marks?

StoryDuckJul 14, 20171 votes

Lol, okay whatever. Maokai should always need AS runes. I can see there is no point in debating this with you, so you win. Congratulations. I hope Maokai always needs the AS runes. I can see it is pointless to even bring it up. I was foolish to think that tanks shouldn't need AS rune. In fact, I hope they nerf his attack animation more requiring players to use more runes for AS because apparently that will make maokai players happy.

ZelorxonJul 14, 20173 votes

That's exactly the problem that i raised in the thread about the new runes, this is something people need to realize, basically every tank now goes 3 quints of attack speed just to fix their auto animation. If they don't do it welcome to league of 0.5 self-stun each time you auto.

Edit: Little correction, not AS quints, AS reds.

StoryDuckJul 14, 20173 votes

Which is what has been happening to me. I can't tell you how many times I have died just waiting for my auto attack to finish to get the heal. I mean I know I'm new to jungling but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that there is something seriously wrong with Maokai (or other tanks) when they need to get AS runes instead of runes for a tank.

RookPusherJul 20, 20171 votes

If that's the major concern then I'd honestly build Nashor's Tooth. It's got the AS you want, an AP boost, 20% CDR - I don't personally build AS but that would be my suggestion for doing it.