Exexutioner passive needs to be an active instead.

Irelia Bot·Nov 7, 2015·77 votes·2,184 views

And also effect heals from champs like soraka and Nami.

4 second active where physical damage applies grievous wounds to the target for 3 second would be good for Executioners calling 90 second CD. Mortal reminder should be a 5 second period where physical damage applies grievous wounds for 4 seconds 75 second CD. This allows for windows to punish someone who used the active poorly where a say a Vlad can then outsustain them or the like. The idea is to allow healers and self healers to be useful if they can survive that window of grievous wounds being applied.

A window of 4 or 5 second to make the enemy healers and self healers less useful is far more balanced then always being able to make a mundo near useless but soraka is unaffected.

That will not kill off Soraka or Mundo but would give some kind of way to counter their power that is not too over the top.

34 Comments

thewire666Nov 7, 20158 votes

The effect reduces your own heal ( your abilites, lifesteal, regen etc), not the allies heal Champions like mundo or vlad are fucked Healers like soraka,nami and sona are better, because off the new maesteries and the fact that grievous doesnt reduce their heals

Irelia BotNov 7, 201511 votes

{quoted}

The effect reduces your own heal ( your abilites, lifesteal, regen etc), not the allies heal Champions like mundo or vlad are fucked Healers like soraka,nami and sona are better, because off the new maesteries and the fact that grievous doesnt reduce their heals

I am saying make it a window where all forms of health regen or heals are reduced by 40% instead of just fucking over vlad and mundo all the time. It should also effect heals form Soraka and Nami but not be a passive and instead an active. IF someone fails to kill the target in the period that GW are applied then all heals and regen return to normal.

HighH1Nov 8, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HKeavcpA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-07T22:37:13.469+0000)

I am saying make it a window where all forms of health regen or heals are reduced by 40% instead of just fucking over vlad and mundo all the time. It should also effect heals form Soraka and Nami but not be a passive and instead an active. IF someone fails to kill the target in the period that GW are applied then all heals and regen return to normal.

You see Riot the community just did your job for you.

YuGiHoNov 8, 20155 votes

Yes! it needs to be an active effect that would make it so much better and give ad champs more active items than just hydra or bork/cutlass

Goddammit SkarNov 8, 20152 votes

Four seconds with a 90 second cooldown? That's basically saying that we just shouldn't buy it... again.

Irelia BotNov 8, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Four seconds with a 90 second cooldown? That's basically saying that we just shouldn't buy it... again.

that is basically saying it should be situational and not somehting making a fair number of champs have to hid their face the whole game. If you are facing a mundo and use the active agaisnt the enemy Leona why should you be able to jsut start attacking the mundo freely and stoping his ult? If we did somethign like that then Thornmail should counter lifesteal by having a passive disabling stealing life fro mthe one with thornmail. That is in effect what the current PBE Executioners calling does to champs like Mundo.

It is called a reasonable counter with drawbacks not a make this champion useless counter.

And the giant slayer one should actually be more like 75% more total health for + 15% damage instead of 500 since an Ahri with crystal scepter and 2 levels higher will have 500 more health then a Vayne In this case the Ahri is punished for building defensive. In other words it should be a tank killer not a slay anything that built a bit defensive killer.

The Bearded BardNov 8, 20154 votes

item 3157 only lasts 2.5 seconds and has a 90 second cd, yet apparently it's the most broken item in the game according to non-mage players.

The item should be an active, actives don't last for long.

MacbethAndCheeseNov 8, 20152 votes

THIS, yes there needs to be a way to play around it

Urgonnalearn2dayNov 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

THIS, yes there needs to be a way to play around it

Put a counter ability in the mastery tree for tanks.

Penguin EclipseNov 8, 20152 votes

It really shoudn't affect heals from Nami/Soraka/Sona/etc. Healing supports DO NOT need nerfs. They are already the weakest class of all supports. Soraka might need a little tuning but not gutting nerfs which is exactly what this would do to her.

Irelia BotNov 8, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Penguin Eclipse,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HKeavcpA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-11-08T05:36:43.593+0000)

It really shoudn't affect heals from Nami/Soraka/Sona/etc. Healing supports DO NOT need nerfs. They are already the weakest class of all supports. Soraka might need a little tuning but not gutting nerfs which is exactly what this would do to her.

They actually gone buffs from new masteries so the 40% from this is justified.

Penguin EclipseNov 8, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HKeavcpA,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-11-08T05:56:47.356+0000)

They actually gone buffs from new masteries so the 40% from this is justified.

Whatever buffs they got from the new masteries are far outweighed by the easy access to more life steal and the itemization changes that will nerf their early game and buff other classes of supports.

weeaboomerNov 8, 20152 votes

Idk... Being ran over by a mundo or vlad because you're not ap with morello is pretty cancerous. They don't have to give up TP pressure to carry ignite... Vlad is already cancer to lane against.

The Bearded BardNov 9, 20153 votes

Cassiopeia Chogath Darius JarvanIV Irelia Hecarim Gnar Fiora KogMaw Kennen Karma Maokai Malzahar Lulu Lissandra LeeSin Nasus Olaf Pantheon Riven Rumble Renekton Swain TahmKench Teemo Warwick Zyra Volibear

There's a list of every champion that shits on Vlad. I probably missed a couple.

item 3211 item 3155 item 3157 item 3165 Here are some items that counter Vlad. Notice some of them aren't even expensive.

Ethereal311Nov 8, 20152 votes

Alternatively they could have done it like this. Bilgewater Cutlass: ACTIVE: Your next basic auto attack deals a bonus 100 magic damage, slows the target by 25% and applies Grievous wounds for 1 second. For every basic auto attack against the target the duration is increased by 0.5 seconds, up to a maximum of 2 instances for a 2 second duration. (90 second cd)

This goes further into BotRK, Hextech Gunblade and FROZEN MALLET.

BotRK: Active: Your next basic auto attack deals double the passive damage, steals a decaying 25% (25-5%) of your targets movespeed and applies Grievous Wounds for 1.5 seconds. For every basic auto attack against the target the duration is increased by 0.5 seconds, up to a maximum of 3 instances for a 3 second duration.

Hextech: Basically slows and applies Grievous Wounds for 2.5 seconds.

Frozen Mallet: NEW ACTIVE Hammer Diplomacy: Deals a % of resistances in physical damage, slowing the target's attack and Movement speed by 50% (25% for ranged) and applying Grievous wounds for 1.5 seconds. The duration of the Grievous Wounds is increased by 0.5 seconds per basic auto attack, up to a maximum of 5 instances for 4 seconds of Grievous wounds. Range is equal to 200+(50% of your attack range).

This additionally means that Frozen Mallet has a new build path of BlgC+Giant's belt and now has 8% lifesteal.

silverbaconNov 8, 20151 votes

Since when do grievous wounds not affect ally heals? I've not seen anything indicating this item is an exception.

KrinuNov 8, 20151 votes

It was part of the PBE changes. Grevious Wounds is currently a 40% reduction to self-healing, regardless of source.

https://twitter.com/ReinaSweet/status/662055048369717248

It's a pretty big nerf to sustain champions like Vlad, Aatrox, and Mundo while providing a small boost to sustain supports in teamfight scenarios.

RyzeReworkNov 8, 20151 votes

I'm sorry for you vlad mains to tell u there's actually counterplay to your non stop healing how fair is it that ad champions in general have to suffer against self healing champions and now they made an item that doesn't have good stats just like the old exe but can be built into something and everyone goes fucking crazy?

Rundus1Nov 8, 20151 votes

Screw Vlad. Make the item "+50% damage to Vlad" for all I care. I'm here for Mundo. He already isn't meta bc his damage isn't monstrous and LS makes you mostly able to outheal his damage long enough to kill him (especially if you got someone packing an ignite). He needs not more problems. He was recently buffed and plays well at the moment. He's not op or up, he's just okay. I don't want to see him nerfed by not just 1 item (giant slayer) but 2 that ADs can now build to slaughter him faster. At least BOtRK got hit a bit first. That is my only solace.

RyzeReworkNov 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Screw Vlad. Make the item "+50% damage to Vlad" for all I care. I'm here for Mundo. He already isn't meta bc his damage isn't monstrous and LS makes you mostly able to outheal his damage long enough to kill him (especially if you got someone packing an ignite). He needs not more problems. He was recently buffed and plays well at the moment. He's not op or up, he's just okay. I don't want to see him nerfed by not just 1 item (giant slayer) but 2 that ADs can now build to slaughter him faster. At least BOtRK got hit a bit first. That is my only solace.

I don't expect seeing Mundo tops yet I think Mundo won't be played because of the power shift to adc's means your ganna want some all in and Mundo just a meat shield even tho its outdated I'm still a fan of Mundo jungle infinite slows and his base q does allot of damnage

CrazedPorcupineNov 8, 20151 votes

Executioner's calling actually had it's Grievous wounds effect modified multiple times through it's history. First, it was on autos. Then it was changed to an active in season 2, then in season 3 it was changed back to an auto attack modifier, then it was removed because no one bought it because it had no upgrade.

Now it's actually worth buying and people are complaining about it despite it being an insanely powerful item throughout it's existance.

20% crit was a sizable chunk. And getting it on GP was fantastic, Since IE, PD, Trinity and Executioners would give 95% crit chance, and make it impossible for anyone to duel you. Toss in a Bloodthirster, and you'd become an insanely powerful carry that couldnt' be killed.

sreggadNov 8, 20151 votes

I'm fine with it being a passive. IT should however only last 1 second and calling should only be at 20% effect and mortal be at 40% effect.

you should be required to continue hitting the champion to have an effect.

EROTIC RAID BOSSNov 8, 20151 votes

I kind of feel like it's ignored that the main point is to choose between tank busting power and adc killing power with the new last whisper

Irelia BotNov 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Twink Azir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HKeavcpA,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-11-08T16:55:51.029+0000)

I kind of feel like it's ignored that the main point is to choose between tank busting power and adc killing power with the new last whisper

Both of the new LW upgrades are really strong to the point that they will both likely need some kind of change The giant slayer should honestly be increased damge based on a % instead of a flat 500 and the GW on ever auto makes champs like Vlad and Mundo basically pointless.

SlashStrikerNov 8, 20151 votes

i do not agree without executioner calling healing would always feel underpowered they even reduced the GW down to 40% but i do think that 3 secs is way too long instead it should be 1.5 sec while you are attacking also the effect should be stackable 15% stack up to 60% GW for 1.5 or 2 sec

with GW thinks like healings should be buffed even more than it is currently nami heal for example sucks alot

look at veigar for instance he can 1 shot you even if you have 0 AP madafaker is stupidly overpowered beyond imagination

Irelia BotNov 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

i do not agree without executioner calling healing would always feel underpowered they even reduced the GW down to 40% but i do think that 3 secs is way too long instead it should be 1.5 sec while you are attacking also the effect should be stackable 15% stack up up to 45% GW for 1.5 or 2 sec

with GW thinks like healings should be buffed even more than it is currently nami heal for example sucks alot

look at veigar for instance he can 1 shot you even if you have 0 AP madafaker is stupidly overpowered beyond imagination

what part of healers got buffs through masteries do people not understand?

SlashStrikerNov 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HKeavcpA,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2015-11-08T19:25:49.010+0000)

what part of healers got buffs through masteries do people not understand?

i kinda failed to understand what you trying to say

kile147Nov 9, 20151 votes

I like the idea of stacking GW. Someone with innate sustain shouldn't be punished as hard by poke, but should lose that sustain when you get into a fight. This change would slightly reward you for good poke (15% healing reduction) but wouldn't completely invalidate their healing unless you all-in them

CronofugeNov 8, 20151 votes

No more vlad? Sign me up.

On a more serious note once upon a time it was a targeted active with 20 second cooldown and nobody bought it. I wouldn't be surprised if the giant slayer was bought in 5x more games since it's better at doing damage in all scenarios and most champion who will buy LW want to maximize their damage.

As for top laners buying a simple 800g item to shut down their healing opponent that is a real issue and I agree it should be addressed.

Irelia BotNov 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No more vlad? Sign me up.

On a more serious note once upon a time it was a targeted active with 20 second cooldown and nobody bought it. I wouldn't be surprised if the giant slayer was bought in 5x more games since it's better at doing damage in all scenarios and most champion who will buy LW want to maximize their damage.

As for top laners buying a simple 800g item to shut down their healing opponent that is a real issue and I agree it should be addressed.

To be honest giant slayer is more flat out broken and should be based on a say every 5% more health the target currently has has over the attacker with the item increases the damage to that higher health target by 1% maxing out at 75% more health for 15% more damage so a mage with crystal scepter and a level advantage is not getting 15% more damage taken.

So in other words a 1500 health vayne with this item facing a 1900 health Ahri would only be getting about 5% more damage from giant slayer because of the 26% more health this ahri has over the vayne.

now in a different case where it is say late game and the smae vayne has 2000 health and is attacking mundo who has 4500 health it would cap at 15% more damage even though the mundo has 150% more health which if there was no cap would mean 30%. Since it caps at 75% more health in this case.

Both items are by all means a major step up from the current live LW in the right situation but I will say Riot is going overboard with a lot of it.

LlaniteNov 8, 20151 votes

Does not work as all the self-healing champs have some sort of time buying (Vlad E, Swain Zhonya, Mundo sprint, etc) making the active useless.

SlashStrikerNov 8, 20151 votes

My personal opinion on why Healing Reduction should stay and everything in the game must have counterplay. With Grievous Wounds things will be much better balanced. IMO the only thing about EC is that duration of 3 seconds is way too long. If its reduced to 1.5 sec it would be fine forcing you to stick to your target not just harass them once every 3 seconds to keep completely deny them

for instance MasterYi Master yi - Restores up to 880 health over 4 sec and gives 70% damage reduction. Ok? compare that to your favorite "overpowered broken" soraka. Soraka soraka - Tons of people will disagree with me but IMO Most unhealthy concept i ever saw. Soraka is suppose to be the doctor of the league instead right now she is a vampire that donates and steals health and she cannot heal herself. Ok? Which doctor you know in real life that cannot heal themself? Aint a shame that you are the best doctor in the world and do not know how to heal yourself from a flu that we already know? So you are vampire "Doctor" and you have to go drink some blood to restore your health? SENSE? 10% Max Health cost makes no sense. Its just there so there would be some counterplay to her on top of that she cannot heal herself. She has no mobility, or any kind of defense mechanism. Once focused she dies. Simple as that! She is literally in very unhealthy state right now. That makes sense to build health items like item 3027 item 3116 item 3143 so you would be able to take some of the burst from enemies I personally the only thing i can do with soraka is just die and everyone call me useless. I just cannot figure her out and i just straight gave up on her. Before her current rework i played with her but not any more vladimir - Transfusion - 4 sec at rank 5 on a manaless champion! Sonavabich has low CD on Q, is not even skillshot aka Q on someone for tons of damage and heal, no way to dodge it, no condition on which he is suppose to be healed and with Spellvamp the madafaker is unkillable aka he resotres 40% health with 1 Q. He just didnt have any counterplay at all. Not to mention the Zhonya Trollpool. Basically untargetable for the entire teamfight with low chance for his opponents to fight back. He deserves 99.9999% GW! WIth champions like AP shaco that has tons of mana cost on his spell he cannot trade with vlad at all. And for that reason i also think Nomicon should get buff just like EC. I like vlad alot i played him many times but the madafaker has no counter play. Nami Nami is one of the worst healers in the game. The best thing about her is her CC Bubble everything else sucks to the max! bonus movement speed for 1.5 seconds??? Are you fkin serious? What the hell is that suppose to do exactly? Heal: 65 / 95 / 125 / 155 / 185 (+ 30% AP) - isht that enough prove that the fish is underpowered? 30% ap scaling? Then why champions can do 100% ap damage then? Why dont they do 40% AP damage instead? It costs 130 mana at rank 5! Why do you even main this champ??? her ult sucks so much that entire parody was made for it. When was teh last time you played nami anything else but support??? Top or mid maybe? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR5smR4aDnQ DrMundo Mundo - without GW mundo is suppose to kill you because Sustain is his primary concept. Building GW is a MUST to counter him Fiddlesticks - he is a very strange creature. While his Drain is 6 second CD, it damages you it also heals himself the entire fight. Champions without any CC have really hard to answer to that. If you dont have ignite you are screwed not to mention that his Fear is about 2.25 sec! Thats where EC comes in play so you are able to successful answer to that!