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Tribunal? What does history have to do with it? Fear of abuse!

Occams Raiser··1 votes·788 views

Why is the amount of games you have played a factor in your punishment? Seem like you would expect poor gamesmanship to decrease with experience. I think Riot has the expectation of its loyal base growing weary o f playing for victory. In the threads I have read, there seems to be a bigger fear of having a system of punishment that will be abused by players over the fear of the punishments against those that deserve it.

Are there a bunch of people abusing the power of a citizen's arrest? You bring up punishing trolls and someone will knee jerk the straw-man of those who break the meta or are unskilled. You know what a goddamn troll is and it's not someone playing Teemo. It's the non-communicator that is so clueless as to playing a team based game that you think he is a bot. Its the guy that leaves 3-5 of his has last 15 games. How bout the guy that starts the game by saying "he is so high right now" and proceeds to feed 20 deaths in 20 minutes. What does the previous 400 games I have played have to do with the fact that I have turned the corner and started to troll my last 10 games?

24 Comments

DWT123452 votes

tribunal no longer exists, so it dosent matter anyways

Occams Raiser1 votes

Haven't read anything about that.

Pryotra2 votes

It's been closed so long and there is a new automated ban system that scrapes the most straight forward cases and bans them.

Lyte says the tribunal will come back, but something was wrong with how it was building cases, so only the most obvious of cases were getting built. That's why he took it down in preseason 4. I honestly find Lyte and his department tends to move more methodically than other departments, but IMO that's a good thing. Better quality tends to be the result, as he implied how fast the community grew had impacted the formula for making cases, and as a result it needed to be rebuilt. I'm patient enough to wait for a quality tribunal, rather than a slipshod one that comes out fast but with tons of issues and abuse cases.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Thanks for the update.

disregardable2 votes

None of the issues you stated really warrant a ban/mark on your account on their own, though. Which is REALLY what the "trolls will ban meta breakers and unskilled" argument is, people have different definitions of what trolling/toxicity actually are and even more importantly how to prove that someone is toxic. The reality is that no matter bad someone seems to you in a game, you can always be taking his actions the wrong way.

I get called a toxic troll trying to throw the game FOR SPLITPUSHING at least twice a week. I'm not a toxic troll for taking free objectives. It is not my fault we lost when you chased kills in the jungle, died 3v5, and gave them a free baron. Lots of people disagree with that statement. That's fine. You don't have to agree with me. You just can't have the power to punish someone for doing something you disagree with.

If my split pushing is really trolling and detrimental to the teams I play, Riot will eventually ban me. Until then? I'm gonna keep splitting and muting you.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Who in the hell would call you a troll for split pushing? That is the straw-man argument I am talking about. The only time split pushing is bad is when you push without vision and kill -die when you push. It keeps your bounty high and gives a the other team a consistent stream of gold vs your slow push.

If you are truly effective at splitting, the other team fears you, fears team fight engaging, or wandering too far from home making them tighten up their game. If the latter describes your push, I want to play with you.

If you are consistently being called a troll, maybe you are being left alone on an ineffective split push cause the rest of your team is being decimated. Consider it?

disregardable1 votes

It was an example. It doesn't matter how you feel about split pushing. It SHOULDN'T matter how you feel about split pushing.

Occams Raiser2 votes

It should matter how you are playing . AS AN EXAMPLE: you are splitting and it is costing your side the game cause you are bad at it and you are not helping in team fights and you do it at inappropriate times, then why wouldn't it be considered trolling?

Doing it ineffectively. Doing it in an untimely fashion. Not being there for engagements and team push objectives. Getting killed for it. Insisting it is working while you are losing. Ignoring the rest of your team wanting to use a different strategy.

If you get a check in all these categories, then the only difference between you and a troll is the troll knows what he is doing is failing and you don't. This is just using your example.

disregardable1 votes

So I SHOULD be reported for no reason other than you think I'm causing the loss? Wat lol. Take responsibility for your actions, and judge your own play please, not mine.

Occams Raiser1 votes

That means you think no one should be reported.

disregardable1 votes

No, it means I think that you aren't god or Riot. Maybe my split pushing was a fail, maybe your reaction to my split pushing was a fail. Either way I wasn't harassing you, having a negative attitude, assisting the enemy team, or refusing to communicate. You have no grounds to report me as a troll for picking a strategy and informing you that I'm taking it. The only thing "But you made us lose!" is reportable on its own for is "Unskilled". By all means, report me for unskilled if we lose cause of my shitty splitting.

Occams Raiser1 votes

We are just talking here. You are saying besides harassment, giving up entirely, or feeding there really is no other course of action that should get you reported. What about kill securing all the kills, but being too afraid or just not taking turrets? You would have all the kill damage but no push. And you would be stealing kills from others. If you felt that you work better with a lot of gold and it helps you get kills, is that alright?

That is like being a ball hog but can't shoot. That is him doing his best to win and being a detriment to your team. AND YET WIN OR LOSE, people hate ball hogs. As long as he doesn't cuss you and call you out of your name... he's cool.

It just seems you have a narrower view of what is negative for team spirit. I personally don't mind people cursing and smack talking. But i can't stand people who try to go it alone. AND FAIL

disregardable1 votes

Kill stealing isn't real, first of all. You can hate that person all you want. He is doing nothing wrong. Bothering you is not under any circumstances reportable if it was in no way intentional.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Waiting outside of combat wit no risk of dying only to swoop in and snipe a kill, then proceed to NOT use that power to progress the game to a victory IS NOT unsportsmanlike conduct? Wow. You do have a very narrow view of what is reportable. That bothers everyone. You don't adc do you?

disregardable1 votes

Do you see my summoner's icon? I main Jinx. My whole shtick is chilling in the back and hitting tanks with rockets. That's literally how I got all 3 of my pentas with her.

And our disagreement over whether "kill stealing" should be reportable for negative conduct is just proving my point. Players aren't responsible or consistent enough to differentiate between what's annoying and what's wrong.

Occams Raiser1 votes

So this is a question of whether you live in your ideal world or do you strive for it. There is a reality where an adc would get mad if a support took his kills over and over again. There is also a team where (like i do) the support is a mage like Heimer and it doesn't matter if he gets fed too and the team doesn't mind. One scenario is expected but if I don't follow it and I don't get reported.... does it make a sound? In an ideal situation the adc wants and needs those kills. If everyone but you is following the meta strategy, getting the adc fed and you are deliberately going against the model the only question is did you win and will they report you. Working against your teams interests is a factor of trolling win or lose.

disregardable1 votes

Of course, I disagree completely. Giving players the power to punish people for a game isn't closer to creating an ideal world, it's just creating an inconsistent one. I would get reported for:

trying to communicate "too much" not trying to communicate "enough" split pushing trying to group roaming staying in my lane initiating teamfights never initiating teamfights farming leaving farm using my ultimate during a teamfight we lost not using my ultimate during a teamfight we lost

And many more scapegoat things all because we happened to lose that game, despite the reality that every game's result is a culmination of every player's actions. You cannot decide what the team's interests are when you're completely ignoring one part of the team, and expecting people (especially teenagers) to conform to your expectations really is asking too much, in video games and in real life.

Antemos Xaos1 votes

Of course, the point raised here is moot, Since we're talking about the tribunal system, even if you were reported after game for any of the above, it would be extremely unlikely that you would be punished for it, since a large portion of the league community would look at the overall game stats and see that you were not the worst case of toxicity in that game... unless you were constantly cursing your team out for dying to 4v5's then dying when the enemy team collapses on you... or something.

chutlu2 votes

The tribunal isn't out to get you, feel free to remove your tinfoil hat now.

If you troll 10 games in a row, your going to get reported and probably punished regardless if you played 10 games or 1000 games.

tl;dnr don't do stuff to get reported

Occams Raiser1 votes

Yeah I see you didn't read it. You must have jumped to the bottom and read the last line.

OhOkYeah2 votes

the guy that starts the game by saying "he is so high right now"

fuckin' stoners. So stupid, slow and useless in all aspects of life.

ƒæµ1 votes

As a Teemo main I understand the frustration of the automated punishment system; I have been chat banned countless times strictly for playing Teemo regardless of what I say in chat lol. Sucks that the punishment system in this game is so agressive, it has turned the entire community into a huge mess of pansies screaming "report!!" all game because they know riot will actually ranked ban you if you say "lol" after some rager fail flashes a wall.

System would be so much better if they rewarded positive behavior rather than punished anything that could be slightly considered negative to a sensitive person :)

Occams Raiser1 votes

The military, sports, musical collaborations, and running a business all asks people to do their best to work towards the ultimate goal of success for the team . You sound like you are saying you can't tell the difference between someone trying and someone not. And that the distinction between those two things is so relative there is no point in trying to lock down norms or bothering to follow them. But you know that is not true.

Whatever people want to think, LOL is a very simple game. Pushing turrets is preferable to not pushing. That is an objective truth. If you rarely or poorly push, you might be a bad player. If you never do it, you are not even aiming at victory. Some things are relative but all of them aren't. If you are playing a tank and never tank that is detrimental to your team. What would I look like playing Nautilus and ONLY hook terrain in a 30 minute game. You have to TRY to only hit terrain for 30 minutes. You don't know that guy is trolling your team? 4 on 6 is OP!

Closing thoughts: Zero communication in a team based game might be the most black and white definition of detrimental play there can be. I'm all for randoms being a test ground and for kids. Ranked should be more harshly punished. There is a reason why there are requirements to play ranked. One should be the drive for victory.

warpenguin5551 votes

this is taken straight from the FAQ on the site

Does playing more games mean I have more chances of being banned?

The Tribunal takes into account how many games you have played. If you have played thousands of games and get reported a dozen times, you will be less likely to enter than the Tribunal than someone who played a hundred games and is reported a hundred times. However, if you are extremely, unbelievably toxic in a small number of games, then the Tribunal does not care if you have played thousands of games.

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