Okay Phreak, answer me this then: Why is it that while you "buffed" all the other mana regen items, you did the exact opposite to Athene's, Chalice and Mikael's, and nerfed them into the ground? Why was the Mana Font passive changed to something so crappy?
Riot context only, please.
Vamps Aram Smurf10 votesbecause athene's was stupid broken in season 4.
Junkο1 votesEspecially when playing Veigar (who is supposed to be gated by high mana costs).
Kowe The Ewok3 votesIf you sink 2000k gold into a meaningless stat which doesn't improve damage, bulk or utility it shoudl be worth it. Meanwhile Kat, Zed, Akali finished their first big damage item and 100-0 enemies.
JustMyBassCannon2 votesBack when Chalice was the god of all regen items, you were spending 400 gold on MR, and the remaining 480 on the MP5.
I think less than 500 gold for a personal, nearly-Blue-buff tier mana regen item is a little bit bungee-jumping-off-the-cliffs-of-insanity.
Drogmyre4 votesBack when Chalice was the god of all regen items, you were spending 400 gold on MR, and the remaining 480 on the MP5.
I think less than 500 gold for a personal, nearly-Blue-buff tier mana regen item is a little bit bungee-jumping-off-the-cliffs-of-insanity.
Because Athene's didnt' exist for a long time. Chalice was bought rarely.
Once Athene's came out it was mandatory, because as you said it was fucking broken.
Regina George2 votes[{quoted}](name=Vamps Aram Smurf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HJ9Badqw,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-01-05T12:09:07.842+0000)
because athene's was stupid broken in season 4.
- select any mage with heavy mana requirements
- buy athenes.
- congrats you are now playing katarina.
Well with that logic, what should we do about the energy users/resourceless champions? Zed is beyond annoying in mid lane, especially if you're playing someone like Ori or Lux where you run out of mana in 1 rotation.
Vamps Aram Smurf1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sexual Unicorn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HJ9Badqw,comment-id=00040002,timestamp=2015-01-05T19:45:40.947+0000)
Well with that logic, what should we do about the energy users/resourceless champions? Zed is beyond annoying in mid lane, especially if you're playing someone like Ori or Lux where you run out of mana in 1 rotation.
we shouldnt do anything. some champions are balanced around energy, some are balanced around cooldowns and some around mana.
but if you take a champion balanced around mana, and then completely remove the mana factor...you get a champion balanced around cooldowns, the issue is you cant make anivia's E a 20 second resetting cooldown, she is gated by mana.
im not saying manaless or energy champions are well balanced, im just saying that breaking mana isnt the answer.
FalconPawwwwnch7 votesAre you people serious
Mana regen was broken in Season 4, Athene's was NEVER meant to remove mana as a resource, just make it easier to combat, which it does. An item removing mana costs on a heavy mana gated champion would be like an item giving Udyr 500 range, it's a terrible idea and should never happen
And besides, Phreak is 100% right
darkdill4 votesThe problem is that Athene's isn't even combating mana shortages that well since it requires you to have more than 1.5k mana before its regen value becomes meaningful.
HandheldBrandon2 votesAre you people serious
Mana regen was broken in Season 4, Athene's was NEVER meant to remove mana as a resource, just make it easier to combat, which it does. An item removing mana costs on a heavy mana gated champion would be like an item giving Udyr 500 range, it's a terrible idea and should never happen
And besides, Phreak is 100% right
Except NOW the problem is that Mana is a problem while resource less mids now dominate. Assassins in particular are a huge problem because the good ones have...
A. Excellent Wave clear. B. No real resources to manage. C. Lower mana costs D. Hyper mobility.
Zed,Fizz,Akali, Yasuo ETC are all crazy mids right now who straight up have everything above and explosive burst damage. Now that sustained mana users have shitty mana items they cant compete.
Junkο2 votesFizz
B. No real resources to manage.
You are either not serious or have never played Fizz
HandheldBrandon1 votesObviously i have played fizz and the only thing he doesn't have on that list is the lower mana costs. But he has everything else in spades.
CharQueen4 votesEverytime this discussion comes up, I can only hope that Riot is going to introduce better items.
Glamazon4 votesOther mana items are significantly buffed? I've never felt so mana starved. I'm about to cave and just play zed/yasuo every game...
Trylobyte3 votesChalice/Athene's, combined with blue buff, essentially made every mage resourceless in the early to mid games because they piled up so much regen they had to try to run out (or be Anivia or Swain). With the Mana Font nerf mana is now actually meaningful again... which has the downside of allowing resourceless champions (especially mid-laners) to run wild since they were balanced with the nigh-infinite mana mages in mind.
Penguin Eclipse1 votesChalice/Athene's, combined with blue buff, essentially made every mage resourceless in the early to mid games because they piled up so much regen they had to try to run out (or be Anivia or Swain). With the Mana Font nerf mana is now actually meaningful again... which has the downside of allowing resourceless champions (especially mid-laners) to run wild since they were balanced with the nigh-infinite mana mages in mind.
That was kinda the point of blue buff.
JustMyBassCannon3 votesBecause mana regen was strong enough to make any mage nearly manaless for less than 900 gold. It was getting to be stronger than blue buff, let alone how effective the two were when combined.
Oh, and then the item has an upgrade path that grants AP, CDR and MR. Not only a huge offense boost, but also defense that is immediately valuable against another mage.
The only choice involved was, "Does my champion have Mana ratios?" If yes, TotG. Otherwise, start Chalice. First it was rush Athene's, but then they nerfed the AP and MR enough that it wasn't worth rushing, just upgrading eventually.
Chaotic Reks1 votesSurprised they haven't nerfed 
's free old mana font.
Junkο3 votesProbably because he casts his Q (which he is supposed to farm with) 5 times early game and he is OOM
ImHerVoice1 votesbroken as shit athenes god bless hope it gets gutted further.
Now we can focus on champions who dont have mana costs are broken as shit like zed/lee
