I'm generally not one to do pointless "OP WTF" posts but...

LOL Spammer·Jan 24, 2016·90 votes·4,220 views

Doesn't it seem like graves is a tad strong right now? He can basically be played anywhere and do well. He is tanky-ish even when building full damage and bursting your whole health bar. I'd prefer not to face him toplane as a melee who can get poked because he is range and if I engage on him he just bursts me because he deals more damage when he is closer to you. I'm not saying he is in urgent hotfix mode but maybe just a little reduction to his Q damage would be nice. Thanks for listening to what I'd define as a rant.

70 Comments

Stars ShaperJan 24, 201623 votes

Give him back his cigar... that might calm down that Malcom biatch.

Michael SykesJan 24, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HH6UKOPX,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2016-01-24T22:36:31.406+0000)

Give him back his cigar... that might calm down that Malcom biatch.

Best comment for such a post xD

grimalbatrossJan 25, 20164 votes

if riot cant give him cigar then let him take one of his use shotgun shell then put it in his mouth so we can get the cigar feel.

EU SRB MarksmanJan 25, 20162 votes

can anyone explain to me why graves can't have his cigar yet Gragas can drink his ass off and have a cigar (Gragas Esq.)

KrugLyfeJan 25, 20161 votes

Yeah wtf....

Captain AishiJan 24, 201621 votes

graves is broken right now...

a mobile ranged champion... that punishes melee champions for successfully closing the gap on him is not good design

and he has 340 base MS to boot...

DrProfVibeCheckJan 24, 201652 votes

You mean 340 base MS without boot!

HAHAHAHAHAHhahahaha.......

So sorry...

AzteryzJan 25, 20162 votes

very true but the same could be said about graves being punished by the opposite which would be any champion with higher attack range (which would literally be everyone ranged champ except gnar at level 1)

but thats not me saying he is balanced^^^

i feel that its a shame that graves wasnt anything special before the rework in terms of when someone would think of adcs in general

but after the rework he is seen as a high pick for jung and top :/

in my opinon (and i would like think i have this figured out since hes been my fav adc since season 2) but they should just flat out nerf jungle graves and slightly buff adc graves

and i dont mean in terms of numbers , more so how he interacts in each of those roles (reduce damage and knock back to monsters/make autoing minions a bit smoother)

tl;dr buff adc graves, nerf top and jungle graves

DREADN0UGHTJan 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

very true but the same could be said about graves being punished by the opposite which would be any champion with higher attack range (which would literally be everyone ranged champ except gnar at level 1)

I'm pretty certain Gnar has more range..then again I could be wrong.

AzteryzJan 26, 20161 votes

graves auto range 425

gnar level 1 range 400 level 2 range 430

DREADN0UGHTJan 26, 20161 votes

wait up, so champs gain extra aa range over levels? Did i really never know that? Thought that was a tristana thing only!

AzteryzJan 26, 20161 votes

ahaha no mate its just how mini gnar works

over levels he gets bonus stats in his mini and mega for

mini gnar gets bonus move speed attack range and attack speed

mega gnar gets armor health hp regen mr and ad

InHaruhiWeTrustJan 26, 20161 votes

obviously graves top is broken right now. with a 57% win rate, but buff adc graves? what? you think if adc was 57% that would be ok? adc graves is currently at 55.34% winrate which is the second highest win rate after... you guess it.. graves top.... jg graves is down in the dumpster with a pathetic 54.88% winrate. psh stupid jg graves only haveing the 4th highest winrate. joking aside graves need nerfs in general and certainly not buffs in any way

AzteryzJan 26, 20161 votes

ahaha i meant in its own respective way like make adc graves more appealable instead of jungle graves as well as top which they didnt intend for him to strive so hard in

i didnt mean in a numbers way

InHaruhiWeTrustJan 26, 20161 votes

is there a way to do that though? i think his new kit might just be better suited to a top carry role than it is to adc because of his short range and ability dmg. he is still gonna be a lane bully and do well vs adcs he counters like Vayne , but outside of counter picking i don't think he is suited to adc as much any more.

AzteryzJan 27, 20161 votes

my short opinon on whether there is a way or not. yes i think that its possible.

and we shouldnt just condemn him to not be good as an adc or we will get another morde identity crises where they force a champ into another role where no one asked for him to be its a very sensitive and icy topic

InHaruhiWeTrustJan 27, 20161 votes

it's really the opposite of mord though. mord was a champ that should never have gone bot since he is supposed to be countered by kite and poke which is LITERALLY ALL BOT LANE IS!!!!!, but riot REALY wanted to make him go bot so the only way for him to beat people who hard counter him is to make him so OP that no counter play can exist and that's exactly what they did. with graves going top and jg is natural. people saw that his kit might work top so they tried it and it went well(to say the least). if i'm not mistaken Diana was meant to be a jg, but her kit worked so well mid that people play her mid much more than jg. i'm pretty sure there are other examples of a champ being designed for one thing but working better somewhere else but i can't think of them off the top of my head. my opinion on graves is just to balance him in general and just see where he winds up.

AzteryzJan 27, 20161 votes

very true and i guess all we can do is wait till thursday for pbe since the next patch is coming up

MunchCrunchLunchJan 24, 201615 votes

i think the bullshit part is that hes probably the best jungler in the game right now. hes been too strong for awhile. but since hes FOTM. you see it a lot. hes been like this since the 5.22 update. they need to make his Q scale off bonus AD not total and reduce its damage. also for an AOE ult it does too much damage. and he gains too much armor and MR from his dash thingy. like crazy armor and MR if you do it few times. tanky af for an adc.

The Bearded BardJan 24, 20165 votes

Not completely disagreeing with you, but his Q already scales off bonus AD, it just also does 440 +195% bonus AD total. I agree he's overpowered, but you can't just make things up.

InHaruhiWeTrustJan 26, 20161 votes

i don't think his ult is the problem personally. its his autos and/or end of the line that make me constantly say WTF?

Slamurai JackJan 24, 201610 votes

He's started doing a lot better once people actually figured out how to play him, yes. Expect significant nerfs the very first day of the next PBE cycle.

Shrek LuigiJan 24, 20168 votes

I'm just worried that the incoming nerfs are going to ruin his botlane presence. Versus other ADCS, he's trumped by pretty much every adc that outscales him, and has a lot less to offer in teamfights than his marksman kin.

I think redistributing some of the power from that Q into his Ult and playing around with the damage ratios on his bullets would go a long way toward reigning in his early snowballing and ability to straight-up execute someone at any point.

The Bearded BardJan 24, 20164 votes

Gonna have to get over it. Annie, Zyra, Brand, Morg, etc are all balanced around their bot lane presence instead of their mid lane presence.

RocketRelmJan 25, 20161 votes

To be fair, at least for Morgana, she's still an incredibly powerful mid laner to be reckoned with. The S6 changes have been 'very' kind to her.

FistOfSharkieshaJan 24, 201611 votes

He can't have his cake and eat it too though, he's broken as shit right now. They need to choose if they want him to be a fighter or an AD carry and adjust him accordingly so he's not extremely oppressive in JG and Top and still completely capable in the ADC role.

SpongebobIsLifeJan 25, 20162 votes

apparently someone listens to trey songz :P

Axis the DragonJan 25, 20166 votes

"have his cake and eat it too" is a very, very common idiom in the English language, and it has existed for many, many years. xP

MrWasjigJan 25, 20161 votes

can't have his cake and eat it too though

I've never quite understood this phrase, I think it's perfectly reasonable to have a cake and want to eat it. Not much else you can do with cake other than hide in it if you're a hooker.

Jokes aside however he is fitting a kinda "Jack of all Trades" at the moment with being able to fit anywhere and do well.

ModKnightsKemplarJan 26, 20161 votes

Agreed. He doesn't get to be crazy OP just because people like him in bot and he's bad there now.

FistOfSharkieshaJan 26, 20161 votes

He's #1 highest winrate as adc, jg, and top. so the people who say he isn't good bot are idiots. He probably has the highest winrate mid too and maybe even support but we don't have that data.

BârdJan 25, 20166 votes

Being able to be played in every role (or almost every role) is not a bad thing; I personally love champ select mindgames, when we confuse the enemy with versatile champ picks (Say they pick Zed mid to counter our Zyra pick, but little do they know that Zyra is jungling, that Sion he thought was jungling is actually a support, and the our Zilean is his actual opponent). Graves needs some changes, yes (namely the resistances from his E, fuck that shit), but his sheer versatility is something about him that I really like.

MatezoideJan 24, 20165 votes

Isnt Graves at the top win-rate for ADC, Jungle AND Top atm, in high elo?

SmithneyJan 24, 20165 votes

Regarding top, I'd leave that to Schrödinger's Gangplank

SmithneyJan 24, 20164 votes

Upvote the OP for bringing up a good point... ...or not, because of the clickbait title?... ...dilemmas, dilemmas.

Graves ain't the only BS champion right now, points at GP and Mundo, but he's definitely the most BS of them all. I feel like now is the time for him to lose his minion pushback crutch.

A LiberalJan 24, 20163 votes

Highest Winrate for ADC, Top, AND jungle.

yeah i would say that's pretty OP.

King OdinJan 24, 20162 votes

I couldn't agree more , he currently has the highest winrate in Top, Jungle and ADC and I know winrate doesn't mean much but when it's across three roles something is definitely wrong. http://grabilla.com/06118-285154f2-afdd-4cd1-b0ea-5fb73f4e10c2.png

SquidsmastahJan 25, 20162 votes

Dude he has the fucking highest jungle win rate, and general win rate in the game.

A champion designed to be a god damn adc, has the highest jungle win rate...

CatboyAsbelJan 25, 20162 votes

"tad strong" he's the most broken champ in the game right now.

StoppedDig79605Jan 25, 20161 votes

cough rengar cough

CatboyAsbelJan 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

cough rengar cough

Tahm Cancer, Soraka, Jax and Mundo come before him

Dunkrius2gJan 24, 20161 votes

Its simple. Once the other champions got nerfed, other guys want to abuse the strong and Graves was just up in that alley for that. He didn't receive any buffs at all. If he is doing a lot of damage, then switch his Q's damage onto his ult.

If he is having a easy time in the jungle, then all yo have to do to fix this "Each pellet will apply on-hit effects but enemies will only suffer on-hit effects once per Shell. Non-champion units hit by more than one pellet are Airborne icon knocked back." This shows that each pellet applies on hit effects so one auto attack applies life steal 4x so for 10%= 40% on jungle monsters. So reduce it to 2 in jungle.

Or nerf item 3142 armor pen from 20 -> to 15

Mael broJan 25, 20161 votes

Don't worry all these Graves 'mains' will fall back to Silver after the nerfs.

Solidair3Jan 25, 20161 votes

His waveclear is too strong right now, imo

Gene FreakzJan 26, 20161 votes

Are you Canadian or something eh? Lol, but I would expect him to be nerfed within the next two patches. According to lolking.com, he is one of the top tier bans right now. I was watching Nightblue3 stream today and he totally owned with Jungle Graves. So far, after about 40 ranked games, I haven't seen a Graves do poorly. And the Graves' that do lose end up raging in the post-game chat (probably because they're so used to winning with him cause of his OP-ness).

GunpointJan 26, 20161 votes

I feel like DrMundo needs an urgent hotfix.

PoppystarJan 26, 20161 votes

I saw the title of this thread and immediately knew it was about Graves. I hate Graves right now. I hate being bot with him. I hate knowing he's lurking in the jungle. I even feel disgusted when he's up at the isolated island that is top lane. He does gross damage and its a fun sucker. I have no fun playing when Graves is all up in my bubble all the time.

stealthfox94Jan 26, 20161 votes

Yeah his damage is kind of stupid right now.

LuggJan 26, 20161 votes

I have been playing for over 3 years, and I have never seen a tanky champ that does great damage be balanced. Just look at current Mundo for a great example.

Graves needs to be a damage over time champ instead of burst since he is the tankiest of the ADCs. If they lowered his damage and lowered the CD on his dash, he would become a champ that you use to outlast your opponent thru outplays or kiting.