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I'm so glad Riot keeps releasing/reworking more bloated and complex kits

Mira Arya Enthe··49 votes·5,116 views

I'd hate if the game permanently stagnated on Garen hiding in bushes and every other champion just slapping one another with numbers.

Because the thing is, numbers and strategy matter to the new designs as well(just go watch some master tier streams and listen to them talk), but so do skill and reflexes.

Giving us a beautifully strategic, tactical game where you can outplay one another through effort and superior planning.

I'm sure lazy players will forever bitch on the boards that they want to return to wet-noodle tank slapping fests where victory is completely decided by how much of x stat you stacked. But the rest of us want an interactive game. And are glad Riot is giving us fun new toys to play with.

And if some of those toys come broken? Guess what, they will be fixed with time. While some of the intrinsic flaws of the old toys can never be properly resolved without rebuilding them from scratch.

88 Comments

Big Lincoln3 votes

warwick is the only one they got right

Darius Strada28 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HFHsVo7I,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-11T18:39:52.587+0000)

warwick is the only one they got right

Sion

Big Lincoln5 votes

from hyper carry to lane bully tank

real good rework there

Ralanr22 votes

Yeah, they made him more healthy.

Big Lincoln1 votes

healthy how? he's all counterplay, no play

only way he works is if his numbers are ridiculous

Ralanr6 votes

Well for starters, all that counterplay actually did raise his skill ceiling and made him more fair to fight against as a tank than Poppy or Maokai.

Is some of it too much? Yeah I'm not going to lie. Personally I wish his ult didn't have a global announcement since it's really easy to dodge, and I wish his Q wasn't interrupted by hard CC since you can literally walk through Sion.

But he's really fair and really rewarding. This is all my opinion though.

Big Lincoln1 votes

there's just no reason to have completely redone him

I want a strength carry

Ralanr3 votes

He was an early rework that was pretty much an experiment imo.

I'm all the happier for it because I doubt I'd be playing league if it didn't turn out like that.

Big Lincoln1 votes

im bitter

Doctor Dyment1 votes

You seem to complain an awful lot.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

You get used to it lol, he's like the bitter uncle of the boards.

He has lots of good ideas, but he has special complaints towards reworks of recent champs as well as typical balance complaints.

Ralanr1 votes

Big Lincoln in a nutshell. It's also why I like him.

Big Lincoln3 votes

it's the only way i get replies

Ralanr1 votes

This is so accurate it hurts.

Doozku2 votes

Go back to dota then

Anidan1 votes

Please don't send him to us.

Big Lincoln1 votes

nothing wrong with me

Anidan1 votes

It's more that you strike me as the type of person who would try to get Outworld Devourer nerfed for one-shotting you with his ult on a Strength or Agility carry.

Big Lincoln2 votes

i dont think i actually ask for nerfs that much

i just hate reworks that rob me of champions that used to be fun

Ralanr1 votes

Yeah, most of your points are on changes you don't like.

It's kinda like an old man shouting at young people.

Big Lincoln1 votes

back in my day juggernauts were just called bruisers and they could carry games

Anidan1 votes

We talking the metagolem era?

Atanchan1 votes

Darius DrMundo Garen Hecarim Illaoi Kled Nasus Olaf Shyvana ?

Hell, you could probably count a lot of others, too.

Anidan1 votes

If we're going by how DotA2 would generally label a Strength hero, League definitely has a lot. Some would be toss-ups between other stats, like how Xin Zhao and Jayce might be able to go with either Strength or Agility, while Vlad could be Strength or Intellect given his playstyle and build path.

Atanchan1 votes

LC ( and Lifestealer, kinda ) make me lean Xin more towards 100% strength than some sort of toss up. Jayce seems more like he'd be the first hero to switch attributes - something I'm not sure why it hasn't been done, aside from the fact that I think it's actually impossible in WC3 and we've only just now finally gotten a new hero totally unbound from WC3's constraints.

Ahristocats1 votes

there is a mode named "from the summoner rift" someone trying to port league champs into dota 2 by replacing dota heroes with champs

elder titan for example is singed techies is heimer

i wonder if this mode will become popular

doublelift fg5 votes

Old sion had nothing unhealthy, his kit was just garbage

the reason they did the rework is because his kit was a mixe of a mage and a carry, his kit was also boring af old Q counterplay was staying out of the range W was the same E was a bonus ad, and then hp on kill R was a steroid+utility that a hyper carry brings

They could have made a healthier hypercarry sion

they just wanted him to be a tank, which purely doesn't make a single sens

Ralanr14 votes

It had two primary builds that both ignored two of his abilities and his AD build was super feast or famine.

Like I said before, Sion barely had much foundation so Riot felt the need to reimagine home from scratch. He definitely turned out a lot better than Karma.

doublelift fg2 votes

Hahahahahaahahahaa

Ad sion:

Q=point and click very short range stun, helps your team when you're behind also had a low cooldown in late game W=300 hp shield E=AD steroid+hp steroid R=AS+lifesteal steroid+utility

Ap sion: Q=stun+nuke W=shield+nuke E=AD steroid for lichbane+hp steroid R=helps to push and get baron

**his spells weren't useless if choosing an other build, it's just that he was both a mage and hypercarry at the same time and riot said it wasn't fine **

at the end of the day old sion wasn't unhealthy, even AP sion had counterplay his Q range was small delayed and W could be destroyed to prevent damage (and had 3 sec delay before doing damage)

old sion wasn't unhealthy, this is where you were wrong and i corrected you

Ralanr5 votes

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vjg_W7PjjQ

Oh, and the RNG passive.

doublelift fg9 votes

you're fucking kidding me right now?

yes the passive was RNG, but the % was 40% which triggered almost everytime just like crit is healthy when it has a high chance because the RNG is unnoticeable

now this vid, do i even need to fucking comment a video of someone playing against 5 afk people, with a sion that farmed so much to get 40000 FUCKING HP?

holy fucking shit i'm so triggered

Ralanr10 votes

http://m.imgur.com/BBFrDyk?r

Honestly you're free to your opinion as I am to mine. I'm glad Sion had become what he is today and he's not going back.

Pierce The Veal3 votes

{quoted}

http://m.imgur.com/BBFrDyk?r

Honestly you're free to your opinion as I am to mine. I'm glad Sion had become what he is today and he's not going back.

Annnnnd that's why league of legends has been constantly losing players. I hope this shitty game goes bankrupt already it's taking too long :/

Awoof4 votes

{quoted}

I hope this shitty game goes bankrupt already it's taking too long :/

Yeah, if you keep making loads of money it usually takes a while to go bankrupt.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, if you keep making loads of money it usually takes a while to go bankrupt.

It's hard to tell how much they actually profit off this game. Considering revenue peaked at 960 million a few years back and the fact that they have 1000+ employees, I wouldn't say they're the most profitable company.

Anidan5 votes

Old Sion may not have been unhealthy, but he was incredibly stupid for League. He was like a gimped DotA hero, but with none of the DotA items that would really let that work.

Glory ln Death6 votes

[{quoted}](name=doublelift fg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HFHsVo7I,comment-id=00010001000000010001,timestamp=2017-01-11T20:03:08.270+0000)

Old sion had nothing unhealthy

I'm a little concerned about your standards for "unhealthy".

I mean, have you even seen old Sion? He was a decaying corpse! Rotting flesh, exposed bone, the whole nine yards!

Honestly, I'm not sure what could be considered more unhealthy than that...

50000000000000002 votes

I mean by that standard the new Sion is pretty unhealthy too. And Yorick. Camille is very healthy, though.

Golden Tager X4 votes

They made him more healthy, at the cost of literally all he was, that is not a good rework, a good rework still has them doing what they used to do, just with more counterplay/play to it.

Ralanr5 votes

Sometimes what they used to do is just not healthy no matter the form.

Just look at Poppy's old ult.

Golden Tager X4 votes

If you have to change one thing fine, but to change EVERYTHING is not fine. Sion was a problem because nobody knew whether he was a mage or adc, all that rework needed to really do was make his q a skillshot, and solidify whether he was a mage or a carry, not a tank. They turned him into the one thing he was not, and that is why it was a failure.

Atanchan4 votes

He had a passive that significantly reduced damage he took, a shield that worked best when it wasn't being obliterated, infinitely stacking health, and an ult whose main purpose was to amplify his survivability.

And hard CC is incredibly common on tanks, and his Q was the purest form of that.

Sion definitely had tank mixed in with the carry and mage parts. Hell, he even had shades of a healer, since his ultimate split the lifesteal heal between him and his allies. Making him dedicated into a tank was hardly out of the left field, and leaving him with a boring skillshot on a boring, all-over-the-place kit would've fixed none of his problems.

Golden Tager X1 votes

Passive had a low chance to block a low flat amount of damage, a shield that literally was better if he waited to go explode it instead of tanking with it, yes very tanky

What I was saying is, why when he has 2 roles that it is a toss-up between the two of them which is better would you go and take the role that literally NOBODY ever played him as and turn him into that.

Atanchan1 votes

Probably because it would be significantly longer before the concept of a juggernaut was formalized internally, and they wanted to keep the actually distinct parts of his kit - the exploding shield and the infinite health scaling - while not having much else that would really have that much to retain. Both of which are distinctly tank-like traits, Gnar and Braum were the previous most recently created tanks prior to his rework, and honestly I think I remember him having pretty good damage for a tank at the time.

He'd probably be a lot differently if done today with the changes in classification and just how the rework team does things in general, but there's no doubt that he wouldn't really resemble his previous state at all - at best, he'd just be better at using damage items than he is currently.

Akira Tsurugi1 votes

I only picked your comment because it seems like out of all the lost people you were making a point but got lost also. They kept most of the stuff from his kit besides the E. His shield still prefer to explode it right before it depletes in Laning phase as the extra dmg should be better than what's remaining on the kit. His Q is still a stun it just had a charge and a knockup. His passive is kinda like his old ULT as in he goes into a frenzy and gains lots of lifesteal. The way he plays changed but his kit is pretty darn similar. Still gains a better shield just now you gotta get your own health rather than farm it. Anyways, so many things have changed that the old Sion can't even be that good anymore. Zhonya is cheaper to avoid his burst, Morello and reduced healing is normal, more dmg than ever for his old shield. And lots of health % dmg to destroy beat his passive health stacking. Also for his AP build, lich bane deals no physical dmg anymore so he wouldn't get heal from it like he used to.

Atanchan1 votes

Oh, yeah, there's definitely a lot of stuff that does directly link the new kit with the old one, but there's a lot of a difference between a very delayed AoE stun to the most underwhelming yet damaging targeted stun in the game.

Mostly, I was focused on explaining why he went from someone who mostly just dealt damage to someone who mostly just bulked up and initiated - they were already experimenting a lot with the radical rework already, and it's flat-out possible that the concept of a juggernaut wasn't really fleshed-out enough to really give it a shot.

DepressedAhri1 votes

Pun or no?

48983507DEL12 votes

I mean. It fits his theme of "Noxus's Undead Battering Ram" a whole lot better. So yea. They kinda succeeded.

Mistress Madoka2 votes

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/990/662/b48.png

Big Lincoln3 votes

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