I really hate Sion's level of counterplay.

Ralanr··5 votes·769 views

Now I love playing Sion, and I will go on to say that I am a Sion main of 205K. I'm also a mainly unranked player, who will probably land in bronze because I have lost 5 of my provisionals (I'm scared to continue because these forums have a lot of rank supremacists).

But one thing that annoys me about Sion is the level of counterplay. Sure, when playing against him it feels very fair, but when playing as him I feel like people are just dancing as they avoid what I do. What I especially hate is his Q. You can be stunned and have it stop or (and maybe I'm wrong) the enemy **can walk through you ** and still be safe from the smash and attack you. As if walking out of it wasn't simple enough?

This is more of a rant than anything else, but I feel his Q has too many weaknesses. I'd at least like it so people can't just walk through Sion when he's charging it. They should be met with a wall of meat and rage, not an incorporeal zombie.

And while we're at it, why can't Sion's ult go through Bard portals?! Do you know how great that would be for ganks, securing objectives, and hilarious escapes?! Please Riot, I wanna send the pain train through tunnels!

29 Comments

Buff Jax please3 votes

Well its true that he has alot of counterplay which doesn't make him a super strong pick the higher elo you look at but his does have very high base damage (and scaling) on his abilties so the reward for actually landing your skills is high.

Penns2 votes

I honestly dont think thats a bad thing. Instead every tank should be like that lel

Ralanr1 votes

What tanks are you referring too when you suggest this?

Penns1 votes

I dunno, pretty much everything that builds item 3068 item 3065 item 3083 item 3742 item 3025 or whatever and still easily kills champs like Jinx in a few seconds

Ralanr1 votes

So buy that logic, Sion would need to be reworked to have more counterplay than he already has.

Penns1 votes

Nah by that logic Sion should stay how he is and every other champ I described should be reworked to have as much counterplay.

TheHowester1 votes

{quoted}

So buy that logic, Sion would need to be reworked to have more counterplay than he already has.

The problem with Sion's counterplay is that later on in the match, he doesnt get a lot of damage off in a fully charged swing. It is powerful CC and can do wonders to squishies, yes; but I feel as if it isnt a satisfying enough blow overall for all that risk to charge up.

Ralanr1 votes

Well tanks aren't suppose to do a lot of damage the later the game goes on. They are suppose to bring utility and supply a strong frontline for their team. A fully charged swing (or just a knock up swing) may not do enough damage late game (unless you count squishies, which I do and I'm fine with being able to kill them) but if your team can follow up (which soloQ isn't well known for) then the ability to knock up up to five people is almost invaluable in late game teamfights.

TheHowester1 votes

{quoted}

Well tanks aren't suppose to do a lot of damage the later the game goes on. They are suppose to bring utility and supply a strong frontline for their team. A fully charged swing (or just a knock up swing) may not do enough damage late game (unless you count squishies, which I do and I'm fine with being able to kill them) but if your team can follow up (which soloQ isn't well known for) then the ability to knock up up to five people is almost invaluable in late game teamfights.

I understand that, but when Sion first came out, he was intended to be a fighter, not a tank. Plus it doesnt feel right lore wise on how Sion wishes to kill all, yet ends up dealing less damage than other fighters. Yes I know he isnt really a fighter, but come on.

Ralanr1 votes

I mean, Thresh is a support that gleefully talks about collecting souls and Shen is a ninja that taunts people to punch him in the face.

Some characters and their roles don't make much sense.

Plus you can build Sion as a bruiser pretty well.

TheHowester1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, Thresh is a support that gleefully talks about collecting souls and Shen is a ninja that taunts people to punch him in the face.

Some characters and their roles don't make much sense.

Plus you can build Sion as a bruiser pretty well.

But Thresh just wants to torment his victims, not kill them. To him, death is too good of a fate for them; thus he doesnt need a kit that screams damage, because he wants to toy with the enemy team.

Shen: I'll give you a point on that one. He's quite a weird ninja. And yes, I know: Brusier Sion is pretty good, but he needs to be ahead to do that build in my opinion.

Ralanr1 votes

{quoted}

And yes, I know: Brusier Sion is pretty good, but **he needs to be ahead **to do that build in my opinion.

That's pretty much the problem of all damage builds imo. You need to be ahead to pull them off.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Allthough it may be frustrating at times, Sion is allowed to have some really high numbers BECAUSE his damage has so much counterplay. I wouldn't want him changed tbh.

Ralanr1 votes

This is true, and those high numbers make his CSing a lot easier with his abilities.

Doesn't excuse the Bard portal synergy. I really wish that was a thing.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

I'd love to see it synergise with Bards Portal. But AFAIK Sions ultimate is self CC, and one can't take a bard portal while CC'd.

Ralanr1 votes

DAMN YOU CODING! DAMN YOU!

Man...I hope we get a champion that can open up terrain for Sion to ult into.

Sahn Uzal2 votes

That would be amazing.

The Deckowner1 votes

There is no counterplay to sion's counterplay. rito cares more about how it feels facing a champion than how it feels playing as a champion.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Faceing a champion as a Marksmen. Whats the counter play to some one crit-ing your face off from 2 miles away most of witch have mobility buffs cc or both hope that you have some one with hard cc that is easy to land on your team and near you to help.

The Deckowner2 votes

in rito's definition, counterplay to marksman is their expansive items and weak early game.

LordGeovanni1 votes

thing is they arent weak early game there are weaker than their late game selves buts thats just how much stronger they get than everyone else not their early game being weak

Nameless Voice1 votes

Uh, if that was the case then champions like Yasuo and Kalista would not exist, and probably a few others like Fizz, Tryndamere, and so on. Generally speaking, Riot care far more that a champion is fun to play, and only in passing if the champion is fun to play against.

Erockandroll1 votes

What ever unreliability his Ax has, I found my self being able to Minion clear well enough that I would have pressure on my opponent regardless. But that was back when Sion was strong. At the moment, Caster tanks get out shined because SFC and ICB pretty much give any tank the needed wave clear, While FH is a bit too weak for it's cost.

On the other hand, Sion had to be made weaker than his counterparts because of his ult. He could easily get back into lane, without needing to use his TP. eek out a lead out of that. (Rek'sai Syndrome) So they balance him around that gimmick.

Ralanr1 votes

Well it is a useful gimmick.

Crett1 votes

The part about the ult is definitely wrong. By using his high cd ult at rank 1 just to get back to lane he is throwing away kill pressure, an escape, and the potential to gank for his teammates. If a champion uses their ultimate non-offensively, they're already making a tradeoff

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

The part about the ult is definitely wrong. By using his high cd ult at rank 1 just to get back to lane he is throwing away kill pressure, an escape, and the potential to gank for his teammates. If a champion uses their ultimate non-offensively, they're already making a tradeoff

And if Kill pressure was the problem, the Pro Scene would not have been using it, back when Sion was actually strong. That's literally where I learned that gimmick was from the LCS.

Also, his Ult CD is way shorter than a TP, and is affected by CDR. If I spend my ult to get back to lane, when My opponent had to use his TP just to match, I'd consider that a good trade.

Anags1 votes

Using his ult to get to lane is a waste. And also ekko can can base and ult right back to lane as well. If I was playing against sion and he ulted to get to lane then that's good because he has zero kill pressure until he gets it back.

Ralanr1 votes

You raise a good point, which is usually why it's only done when you need to get back to lane and are fine with playing defensively.

LordGeovanni1 votes

While I have won 3/4 of my placements I stopped for the same reason coupled with that the champion classes I like to play namely Fighters and Tanks feel horrible and their items suck so badly that even when even they are beaten 1v1 but these are the champions that have to stand in front of a 5 man team and take damage from the other 5 man team its okay-ish if its mostly 1 damage type but if they end up with balanced damage sources or have anyone with true damage you can't do or survive shit. Defensive items are horrible sure they cost cheaper but when the carry has 3 items worth 1.5 more than what your 3 items are worth how can you counter that and that is just a 1v1 scenario which gets worse when you group.

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