Yasuo Post (Wall of Text Inc)

Mira Arya Enthe··50 votes·3,571 views

#VERY IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER! I do not hate Yasuo, if you are expecting a post just detailing every reason the weeblord should be removed, you are in the wrong place. Also, like with Riven, I knew zero about Yasuo when I set out to make this post. I had to go and spend a lot of time, my time, watching videos, reading guides and losing ten games as him before I understood what it was like to play him on a shallow and generic level. So Yasuo mains may not approve of everything in this post. I do please ask that both Yasuo players, and haters, keep an open mind when reading this. Please read the entire post and then comment constructively if you feel the need to. I would rather have a discussion on the matter than a rage fest of angry, bias and hateful players. Oddly enough I am more worried about haters than mains... probably past experience trying to post about Riven. Also I am a silver player, I don't really try to climb, I am more interested in game design and characters than I am in having a badge to show off.

#My Findings Skillcap Oh fuck is Yasuo hard. People who hate him would like to claim otherwise but he is very hard to play well as consistently across many games unless you were born with an Otaku, Bleach watching, "Ninja sword" wielding, correcting people when they call Japanese animations "cartoons" beast inside you who has been yearning to come out all your life. Yasuo is quite hard to play well as. Not just because I lost most my games as him either. Statistically it is backed up, logically it is backed up and anybody who plays him for their first 15 games as him will understand. That said, Skillcap, like skillshots, counterplay, winrates and the like, doesn't always mean a design is healthy. We will talk more on that later.

Fun Yas Yasuo is fun, even losing on him he is incredibly fun to play. Mind you, I am neither a fan of Anime nor the champion, but he is still very fun to play. "But fun is subjective!" Playrates are not, neither are skin releases. Playrates and the champions Riot most often release skins for are a huge indication of which champions people most enjoy playing, whether it be for aesthetics, lore, voice acting, gameplay or so forth. Something about that character is liked. Despite his high ban rate, like Ahri, Riven or Lucian he always maintains a decently high playrate. He is fun to play for a larger number of people than otherwise.

Statistics and balance Yasuo is not imbalanced. I know a great number of his detractors would stop reading here out of close mindedness. But the fact is, he is not 'the most OP thing in the history of DOTA!' Because so many people hate fighting him and ban him so often it is hard to get a true read on his statistics. Even if a tad over or under tuned however Yasuo isn't 'unfair' from a balance standpoint. But don't worry, there will be some negative talk shortly.

A good concept Yasuo is a very good champion concept I just think the execution was a tad off but. I mean nothing is perfect. The idea is he can dash to multiple targets like Yi but is exposed while doing so, he also controls the dashes making it less Luck/Statcheck and more controlled and skill based. He has empowered AAs like Yi but instead of just making his AAs better half of them are skillshots which can be dodged, a bad Yasuo will miss more but bad players will dodge fewer, good players will dodge more and good Yasuo's will hit more. Scaling with skill is always good because it keeps a champion as relevant in Bronze as they are in challenger unlike stat champions who either are just tuned too high for Bronze or too low for Challenger. His wind wall gives him the tools to solo lane vs mages so we can have a melee fighter go mid. His double crit allows for build flexibility and earlier powerspikes to make up for being a melee ADC. His ult gives him a lot of power but makes it team synergistic and skill based rather than just R to win like some champions have. That said, while it is great on paper it does have issues.

#So what is 'wrong' with Yasuo When I set out to make this post, I intended to defend him like I have done with Riven, Marksmen and Darius in the past. But the truth is, I cannot... but no, this isn't just a circlejerk saying "I couldn't because he is total bullshit and should be removed #cancer!". There are two very specific parts of his kit I just thing do not work, and a few others I feel could use some minor editing. But I like to think positively so let's talk about the good first.

The Good Stuff Passive: I think Yasuo's shield is fine and 100% should stay. Yasuo's shield gives him trading power that otherwise would hardly exist, and it lets him lane vs ranged enemies who otherwise would stomp a squishy melee who doesn't have the HP regen and tank stats to deal with ranged poke. Almost all Skirmishers, Divers and Juggernauts have a defensive ability on a short CD(Riven's E, Fiora's Parry, Darius Q), and most of them who don't have some sort of passive sustain/steroid(Nasus Passive, Garen's W) or steroid that is always active or a long CD but powerful steroid(Garen's W). Yasuo's passive is plenty in line with the design of your A-Typical Skirmisher, and while I know a lot of people hate it, I think it would be fine to have if other things in his kit changed. It shows it's fullness, it has down time, it can be removed with a love tap, doesn't help him vs turret or minions and overall seems fair outside the context of certain other assets.

Q: I think Yasuo's Q is perfectly fine. I might lower how long he can hold onto his third Q so he cannot just zone you for a full 10 seconds like Jhin does with his 4th shot. Or perhaps narrow the Tornado. But otherwise I am fine with this ability. It is no different than any other melee carries AA boost except that it can be missed and in return gets to be a tiny AoE. It gives him the DPS steroid melee carries are suppose to have but is skill based, it scales well with the skill of the Yasuo player and his enemies.

E: After a couple nerfs I think his E is actually fine. The dashes are annoying and resource-less but it is a conditional dash that requires planning and skill to use. I might consider making it so enemies and allies can see the CD of his dash on targets to make counterplay and strategies regarding it more apparent, I highly doubt this would 'gut' him as some extremist mains might try to say, as high level players already track his dash targets mentally, it would simply make counterplay vs him in lower tiers more apparent.

R: After adjustments to the armor pen mechanic this ability is mostly fine. It is a conditional ult that cannot just be pushed at any time like most others in the game. It doesn't actually do a lot of damage on it's own the suspension, lifesteal, shield and armor pen are the most important things that come from it.

The Bad stuff Double Crit Chance: In my very unprofessional opinion this feature of his kit can never be healthy. While it can be 'balanced' from a win/play rate point of view, it has severe design problems. The problem with granting double crit chance is that it assures Yasuo can reach 100% damage efficiency with only 2 crit items. Now I choose my words carefully, mains who are about to say "But Yasuo needs to build!" Yes, Yasuo can and usually will build other damage items. But the thing is, the weakness of Crit as a mechanic is that it amplifies overall damage with each % that you get. You reach 100% damage efficiency with 100% crit. That also comes with reliability, when crit is designed to be unreliable. Riot's crit mechanic making it reliable on Ashe resulted in nerf after nerf after nerf to her overall DPS output and the fact that she gets 0 burst, even then she still has to get 100% to get 100% out of her passive. Giving this kind of reliability and free power spiking in Yasuo's kit has allowed toxic things like tank Yasuo as well as Yasuo getting 'shut down' but unlike Riven he becomes relevant the second laning ends anyway and gets a quadra shortly after. I feel this mechanic is a problem.

Windwall: From a balance point of view this ability is 100% A-O-K. But this is probably the biggest 'anti-fun' middle finger in LoL alongside Tahm stealing an ADC right before you kill them or Lulu's point and click Polymorph. They are abilities that aren't even all that fun for the user. But they make the enemies utterly miserable. The thing is, in most games people would tell you to suck it up and git gud. But Riot caters a lot to the whiners and crybabies. The thing is, that is fine. While whiners are annoying it is nice to see one game care about fun alongside balance. So this ability goes against their policy that something should provide a healthy equilibrium of fun and upset when successfully used. Wind wall has the unfortunate design of Yasuo just throwing it out haphazardly in mid game and without any skill or effort deletes 2 incoming ults in a team fight and completely removes the fun out of the game for your mage, enchanter and marksman as well as shutting your Sej out of the fight because her ult was swallowed up. Meanwhile the amount of fun it provides to be used is... eh. it feels okay sometimes but most the time the fun of Yasuo is just running in and killing shit or using your skills to 1v1 like a true weeblord. Windwall takes minimal skill to use in lower tiers. It can just be tossed out and removed fun from the game. I think it is a huge problem.

#What would I change about Yasuo? Here is the segment you should take with a grain of salt, or in the case of some players a fucking dumptruck of salt. Because the thing is I don't know Yasuo's design extremely well, I studied it the best I could but suck at him. But despite that I don't believe in complaining without offering resolutions, so here are a Silver Shyvana one trick's suggestions on how to 'fix' Yasuo.

Nerfed • Gathering Storm duration reduced to 5 seconds.

• Sweeping Blade now displays CD indicators for enemies and allies as well.

Buffed • Resolve shield increased to 110 - 600 based on level.

• Base HP, AD, Armor and Magic resist increased by noticeable amounts.

• Steal Tempest base damage increased to 30/60/90/120/150.

Reworked Intent: No longer grants double critical strike chance. Instead Yasuo's basic attacks will now strike for bonus damage based on his critical strike chance and increased by critical strike damage like Ashe's passive, except no bonus 10% to start with as currently he starts with no benefit from the double crit without crit chance anyway. Instead he will scale slightly harder with the crit. Yasuo's Q will also benefit including the base damage.

Windwall: Yasuo will create a blast of air in a 180° half circle knocking enemies in melee range back a short distance(does not count as Airborne for his ultimate) dealing 15/30/45/60/75 damage increased by 2% for every 1% of critical strike chance Yasuo has and blocking ALL attacks against him for .75 seconds. After that it will expand out into a wall that will slow projectiles that pass through it by 20/25/30/35/40% and reduce their damage, debuffs and crowd control effects by an equal amount.

Reasoning My goal was to place more power into being skilled at Yasuo and less into stat checking with 100% crit chance and tanky itemization options. Nerfs to Gathering Storm and Sweeping Blade are to reduce frustration laning vs Yasuo, but aren't big enough to completely destroy him.

Buffs to Resolve, HP, Armor and MR make up some survivability lost in laning and team fighting from the change to windwall as well as lost lifesteal from the removal of double crit.

The Buffs to base AD and Steal Tempest base damage was to try to offset SOME of the lost damage from double crit. All these changes to damage would actually be a slight buff to a 0% crit chance Yasuo in fact.

Reworked intent will force Yasuo to actually build damage if he wants damage. It will keep the reliability of 100% crit so he doesn't feel crappy(I hate RNG too, I play Ashe for a reason), but he would have to buy 100% crit to get 100% benefit. I'd like the numbers to be edited in a way that allows Yasuo to scale up to just a tad higher than the current when accounting for loss of double crit itemization and the crit damage reduction being removed. But not too much as the goal is to force him out of building 2 damage items and making up for going 0/10/0 in laning. This should give him less of a power spike with each crit item purchased, compensated for in other abilities above, but a stronger final result when nearing full build on a damage build.

Windwall change will make Yasuo even higher skillcap. He will gain some damage on it to compensate the lost damage of double crit chance, the damage will scale with his crit chance as well, the damage is minor and only melee range however. The change to the wall itself means he only gets to fully eat projectiles for the first .75 seconds, more like a spellshield, but it eats ALL attacks now not just ranged, timing it perfectly would be a skill to make Yasuo very lethal. Now once beyond that .75 seconds the wall will only nerf projectiles speed and effectiveness by a % scaling with level. I feel this would be far less toxic. Yasuo could no longer invalidate half a team with a haphazardly button press, but still has the overall utility of the wall and during that initial burst it has gained power. Why? Because again, Yasuo is balanced mostly fine right now, he is just frustrating to fight. So all nerfs must come with compensation. His wall got a little better when used as a timed block, but the overall brainless anti-fun part has been toned down plus seeing 40% slowed global ults in some Vandiril video would be fun.

#Again, take the rework suggestion with a grain of salt! I am no Yasuo expert, I simply believe in providing suggestions when complaining. If you have a better suggestion, or feel you could fine tune this one to be better. Feel free to post below.

Anyway! That is my Yasuo post. I hope it wasn't too ignorant or silly. My goal was simply to convey this, Yasuo is a fun champion, a good design concept, from a balance standpoint he is 'fair' and he takes a lot of skill to play well. That said he has some frustrating aspects, and I think I highlighted the right ones in pointing to Windwall, the duration of his third Q and how his double crit chance interacts with itemization and powerspikes. Hope you enjoyed.

With the best intentions - Mira Arya Enthe.

93 Comments

AmazoX11 votes

It's okay Mira, Though, With these changes, The damage Yasuo would output would be very much buffed once he gets the items needed.

This is a very risky rework though, Good Yasuo's will be even much harder to take down as their damage would be buffed so would their base defensive stats which would make his laning phase much easier IMO.

He'll basically become Jayce level oppressive in lane after the passive shield & base defensive stats are buffed but with trade offs of course that slows his scaling speed, His weak point would be I suppose mid-game as he wouldn't achieve 100% Critical Chance.

  • You nullified to some extent his wind wall toxicity but several other parts of his kit are buffed at certain time periods in a match where he would much stronger, I think this rework isn't perfect but it's good enough, Although just mark my words, He'll become much more oppressive if these changes go through due to the defensive base stats & passive shield buff he receives trading off with slowing his scaling speed and nullifying his wind wall's effectiveness.

  • Now, Why would he become more oppressive? As people (Haters) claim that Yasuo's early game is incredibly strong, IT REALLY ISN'T, Early game is the part where it's risky but also rewarding if you get through it fine and get your core items (Reaching 100% Critical Chance), You would make getting through early game much more easier, and you have suggested removing double critical chance, That's completely fine but once he gets the necessary items to output damage it would be very difficult to deal with him thanks to his base stats being buffed and easy early game, Now why would he deal more damage? While I am sure you guys know that Yasuo has a hidden critical strike penalty in his Way of the Wanderer's double critical chance passive:

Steel Tempest has a hidden critical strike penalty that reduces all critical strikes damage by a further 15% from his 10% reduced critical strike damage off his Auto-Attacks, Which means Steel Tempest critically strikes for 75% of the damage, And only critical strikes on the AD portion (The bonus damage is added on unchanged regardless of whether it crit or not)

TL;DR the bad side of the passive of double critical chance are: Steel Tempest has a 25% reduced critical strike damage. Auto-Attacks have a 10% reduced critical strike damage. 55% capped Attack-speed from items.

Now what you have suggested is nerfing his defensive ability that nullifies majority of the abilities in league of legends which haters find very toxic, Slowing his scaling speed, Now in return you are buffing base stats and his passive shield which wouldn't make it too difficult for the player to go through the slower scaling speed due to the defensive buffs, Now of course you players wouldn't mind this because the Yasuo player is scaling slower thus you don't have to deal with his 100% Critical Chance damage with just two items, But the thing is (IMO FLAW) is that once he gets the item's needed, He'll pump out much more damage due to the removal of the hidden reduced critical strike damage which also has a cap on 55% AS from items, You guys see what the situation would become, Yes?

This overall reduces the toxicity his wind wall brought to the haters & slowers his scaling speed but it doesn't make it any harder for the Yasuo player but in fact his going to be more oppressive in lane which would result in LOW ELO players to give into tilt very easily & also the HIGH ELO players specifically those who are impatient and also give into tilt easily when facing Jayce level of oppressiveness. This is overall a huge buff to his damage but slowers the time it takes for Yasuo to get his damage going but his toughness is going to get buffed with the trade-off to nullifying wind wall's effectiveness to some extent. Now how are the players going to deal with a tougher Yasuo early-game who doesn't do as much damage and is harder to kill but also who becomes an unstoppable force at 28th-30th minute mark, His double critical chance passive is what balancing him right now, Without the passive which has the penalties, The combination of his kit with the proper items is devastating, And IMO, He would be changed from Skirmisher into a Bruiser with this strong rework, Just like how Rengar was changed from an Assassin to his best build ever since the rework was playable: Bruiser

It's a very notable rework.

Please, Comment your opinions fellow players, Applause for Mira taking the time to type all that down, I appreciate the none-biased opinion on the boards from a fellow player where the circlejerk with Yasuo is strong. [zombie-brand-clap]

What is your perfect goal that you have for Yasuo in your mind Mira, How do you want to see him?

Mira Arya Enthe5 votes

You know. I actually forgot the crit reduction despite reminding myself to account for it like 4 times while researching this. But I think that could be solved simply through the number tuning of the passive itself, by tuning the numbers in a manner that his end game is about equal or slightly higher than it is now instead of massively stronger. Thank you for reminding me.

I'd like to see him as somebody who is strong early game if played well but not too oppressive. With an average mid game if he has played well thus far, and a strong late game. If he plays badly I would like to see an average early game, bad mid game and below average late game.

My desire is to see him as a viable, powerful, but fair high skillcap champion who rewards effort and teamwork with a fun and impactful gameplay pattern. Currently he is a couple kit pieces off from being that.

Thank you for your comment and have a good night, I have work in the morning.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

  • Now, Why would he become more oppressive? As people (Haters) claim that Yasuo's early game is incredibly strong, IT REALLY ISN'T,

Just want to call out one thing here. Yasuo's level 2 actually is really strong. Then he falls off for a while until his item power spikes.

Votable Jester5 votes

Should have said Wind Wall of Text rather than just Wall of Text in the title.

Also I disagree with you about Wind Wall being balanced design. In my (also unprofessional) opinion, it screws with the balancing of every other champion. It suddenly adds another aspect of strength or weakness to abilities; whether they act as projectiles or not.

That means that there is an entirely different, additional realm of balance every time Yasuo is in a game. This is also an aspect of champion abilities that cannot really be rebalanced. You also cannot balance champions over the abilities being projectile or not because other they will be overpowered or underpowered when Yasuo (and Braum) are not in the game.

Basically as far as I can tell, it impacts the strength of champions in a way that cannot (without massive effort) be balanced around.

TyrekGoldenspear4 votes

Wow. Love this post. Not becuase of the rework suggestion becuase I am not a Yas main to properly judge it, but becuase of all the work and effort that went clearly into this.

Take this as a lesson Gameplay Boards. If you want to complain/give ideas about a champ and be taken seriously, do your homework.

Edit: Added in "give ideas" after complain or else it insinuates that I interpreted Mira's post as complaining.

Catastrop4 votes

Oh Mira, there was no need for the disclaimer, we know that unlike 90% of the Boards' population you're actually a reasonable person. Great post btw.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Hahaha thanks but reasonable no. In arguments I am quite stubborn and at work I push my agendas too hard. In terms of League I'd like to consider myself fairly unbiased as I have played every role to nearly the same amounts and every champion at least a couple times except Olaf(You'll notice I post very few views on him).

I also just enjoy the characters, game overall strategy and the ever shifting gameplay that is League of Legends. So I don't have a lot of investment in hating any champion. And the ones I hate like say, Darius, I even then make myself accept that he is probably the best designed Juggernaut. As he has been consistently viable without being a meta destroying monster, with only some tuning here and there. Basically he actually has the right tools and counterplay to be a viable Juggernaut from Bronze through Challenger.

It just comes down to perspective. A lot of people get way too tunnel-visioned onto their personal experience from slamming their face against ranked as one/few champion(s)/role(s) and grow an intensely salty bias. First and foremost people should consider statistics, game design perspectives and walk in the other champion/role's shoes to understand that they are players trying to enjoy the game as well.

TheSingularity1 votes

Agreed with Catastrop, nice post but just wanted to chuck in 2 things you missed that I believe are unnecessary irritants to the opponents of a yasuo. One is sound, the other is "self air-born ing"

Personally I'd be making yasuo's Q "hasagi" only heard on yasuo's side. Once yas had a PD that sound is popping up every few seconds and turning down any of yasuo means turning down everyone. Players still hear the spells winding up sound as the duration ticks down and he displays a clear visual indication of having the tornado Q. Thus the absence of "hasagi" will in no way shape or form affect his viability.

And his E sound. I've seen many a player get tilted from the non stop "swoosh" spam in lane and rush in to try and remove the source of this sound from the map. While I rarely have to vs yasuo, the few times I have is up top and if I'm an immobile jug like illaoi or yorick, it feels pretty demoralising having this yasuo swooshing all around me while I can't do anything to stop him with my sluggish move speed and telegraphed spells. While good players tilt less in general and I doubt good yasuo's spend their time spamming E, I feel removing the possibility of "swoosh" spam would be an overall health buff to everyone if it's sound affect is toned down (less volume, lower pitch ect).

As for the second part, Zac Quinn Khazix can all make themselves air born and yasuo can ult off of them. Zac's E and R are the easiest ones as they last the longest but overall it's a silly interaction to be able to ult off of the enemy teams own displacement spells.

But overall great post, loved ti so much I gonna go back and read ur darius, marksmen and riven ones <3 If I can find them XD

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

You likely won't. Ancient content and I have made a couple. Plus I made the Riven ones on my smurf

TheSingularity1 votes

god dang it [zombie-nunu-tears]

Dabrick014 votes

Yasuo is a melee hyper carry. That is why he needs his crit. People think that is broken and OP, but in reality, it is what keeps him squshy.

Let me explain.

Yes, he gets two items for 100% crit chance. If you don't build damage, YOU WON'T DO DAMAGE. Luckly for him he has the capacity for a tank item. if he ends up getting so fed that he can get more than one tank item, you fucked up. Hard. That was entirely your fault and you should feel bad about it. In regards to your changes to his crit...

No, just No.

If you want Tanksuo ()item 3078item 3111item 3022item 3748item 3026item 3065) Then by all means. His crit makes him build damage. If you were to remove his crit passive then you have to do one of two things: make another 20% crit item that does not give Mana or CDR, or remove the crit requirement on his ulti, either way, you just fucked yourself, he is going to go tanksuo from now on.

Yasuo's windwall is a beautiful ability. It is not AT ALL worth the cool-down to block one ranged ability or auto. But when the entire team shoots everything at you, it is magnificent. It is a massive middle finger, but you could say the same thing about Shen's W. The cool-down is massive, and it takes a good player to re-position around him. That is why he is busted down in Bronze ELO. They can't do shit to work together or counter him and Yasuo can rub it in their faces.

Your ideas have promise, and I wouldn't hate to see his W changed a bit, but not in that way. His crit is a CORE part of his cit, taking that away would ruin him. In total your ideas would bring back Tanksuo, and no one wants that.

KoKoboto4 votes

Pretty much 2x crit chance makes the champion BS. I don't even think windwall is that much of an issue but 2x crit chance is BULLLLLLLL. At least you can play around wind wall. Doesn't matter if you stomp him in lane he will always have access to ridiculous damage unless you end the game really early.

I mean think of it like this, as an melee assassin I don't complain when there's a hard CC tank on the enemy team I just deal with it. Range champions complaining about windwall need to learn to deal with, you can't throw your spells out willy nilly.

Dr Yasuuo1 votes

He is everything but assassin. He can 100-0 you only if he is 3-4levels ahead. Like every fighter.

KoKoboto3 votes

Yasuo at level 11 w/ 84 base AD will have 100% crit with IE and PD. So he has 154 AD = 308 damage per auto attack. IE increasing crits by 50% so it becomes 462 AD per attack. Reduce by 10% for normal autos meaning 416 AD per attack. Q probably at level 3 depending if Yasuo decided to max E first, 642 damage with IE amp, than reduce by 25%, 482 damage. Your average squishy at level 11 will have ~1200 health.

Yasuo does not needs that much of an advantage to 100-0 a enemy. I'm not gonna bother talking to you anymore troll.

Dr Yasuuo1 votes

Ninja Tabi, Randuin's ? You are in bronze so you dont need defence ?

KoKoboto2 votes

Cause all mages and adcs build randuins and ninja tabi first items. NOW I'm done talking to you.

Dr Yasuuo1 votes

I mean if u want to buy those items first u can.. But i wouldnt reccomemd it ya know. Also. Those champs dont have only 1200 hp for no reason.. They can 100-0 him before he even stacks z tornado lul

Dr Yasuuo4 votes

First of all, it is not a 'ninja blade' his sword is actually called Katana Sword iirc. Doesnt matter. Double Crit chance IS unhealthly but not on Yasuo. If you gave Vayne or any other adc double crit it would be unfair. Why is it healthly on yasuo ? Well. 》 Terrible base ad. With full build he will have ~290 AD. You can go with up to 500 but you would be squishy AF. 》 His crits deal less damage. 10% reduced on AA and 35% on q. Holy shit. 》 He is a melee hypercarry, he does need it. Lets compare him to other Madc's. Tryndamere has 35% free crit chance WITHOUT reduced dmg on them, cannot die, and has a long range dash on a fairly low cooldown. Free heal. Oh, and also huge ad reducing and slowing ability. Master Yi has untargetability, true damage, ad steroid, heal and HUGE attack speed steroid Fiora(?) Has an ability that can deny EVERY damage except the turret shots as well as potentional hard cc. Attack speed steroid, but only on 2 abilities. A very good base ad and 38% max hp true damage, and a heal for her whole team. Now, Yasuo has a shield, hard cc, mobility(he still needs minions for that), tank shredding and your hated double crit and windwall. If yasuo 1v1d some of the mentioned champ he would lose. Yasuo's crits would deal about 500 dmg per second on lvl18 whereas trynda's would deal 800-900. I dont see crit yi anymore, but he would beat yasuo too, why ? Untargetability to dodge Q, true damage, good base ad, free 2.50 attack speed. tryndamere would just E from his EQ or he would 2 hit yasuo with his ult activated with ~ 500 ad. Lul Fiora, yes, she beats everyone. Thats it. Yasuo is also weak now, but you need to know that you cannot beat him with an adc when ur minions are there. You just cannot. He will EQ twice and ur hp will be gone. Vayne could outtrade him if she stunned him. Or with a tank that has 0.90 AS. You need someone who can outdps him. That is all. Also, he gets wrecked on lane unless he plays against a super squishy champion, then it wont be fun for that squishy champ. I just played akali yesterday and literally abused yasuo.. What can we do to balance yasuo.

Now, windwall IS a tad broken ability. But he wouldnt be able to outtrade nobody in late game without that. What i would do with that ? Limit it to block only one projectile then insta dissapear. Q is perfectly fine. passive too, i have explained why after a huge nerf to e, its ok. But yea, enemies need to see a cooldown on targets. R. Well.. It is okayish, i think 50% armorpen deals the same amount of dmg that is yasuo meant to do without reduced crits.. But yeah, it should be lowered a tad. Not for 30% or 25% but 5-10% wouldnt hurt. But again, meta didnt ever work in yasuo's favor. He just gets stomped by everyone now. Tank meta is shit, stop it.

Thilmer2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Yasuuo,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H6nGwafH,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2017-04-18T18:21:11.742+0000)

First of all, it is not a 'ninja blade' his sword is actually called Katana Sword iirc. Doesnt matter. Double Crit chance IS unhealthly but not on Yasuo. If you gave Vayne or any other adc double crit it would be unfair. Why is it healthly on yasuo ? Well. .

"It isn't".

That is what you should have written. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Put Yasuo's passive on Urgot and he will be permaban in one week. That passive is ridiculously broken. And that is far from beeing the most toxic and overpowered part in Yasuo's kit.

That gives you an idea of how absurdly unbalanced he is in terms of skillset.

Dr Yasuuo2 votes

Again. Yasuo NEEDS double crit. He wouldnt have nothing. His dmg would be just another lackluster. In every MOBA, Samurai like champs are meant to deal damage with their high critical attack. But yeah, in every moba tank is meant to soak dmg and peel whereas in League tank deals tremendous amounts of dmg, peels, soaks and fucks you up. Back to Yasuo. If you removed his crit what would you give him in return. I would increase his base AD and remove crit penalty on AA and Q. Or if that would be still BROKEN i would reduce penalty a tad on Q. If you go 3 crit items. Lets say PD IE Statikk you have 2 slots left. 》PD 》IE 》SS 》BOOTS 》Defensive item which yasuo needs more than everyone 》Dmg - lifesteal item. And what do we have ? An useless utility champ with 200 ad that gets outdpsed by Darius. Sometimes im glad that we got this balance team..

Thilmer1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Yasuuo,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H6nGwafH,comment-id=001a00000000,timestamp=2017-04-18T19:29:41.042+0000)

Again. Yasuo NEEDS double crit. He wouldnt have nothing. His dmg would be just another lackluster.

Every AD champ in the game needs crit, and they don't get it for free. So no, sorry, but no.

Master Yi has been out there for ages, his skillset is worse tan Yasuo in everything, and he doesn't have double crit chance to compensate. The same for Tryndamere.

l Dárius l3 votes

Interesting passive you came up with. I like it.

Heretic Lunari3 votes

Once again, another well made post. I find your rework suggestions really interesting.

Mira Arya Enthe4 votes

Oh! My favorite memer :D! Praise the Sun btw.

Heretic Lunari2 votes

I've seen that before

######And many other stuff...

But nice try ;)

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Second best ship in LoL

Heretic Lunari1 votes

I'm curious, what's your #1 ship?

CannabisOverlord2 votes

I agree with the above, However as an Anime fan, and a huge huge fan of Bleach, HOW DARE YOU reference yasuo with the amazingness of Bleach! Also, the minute riot releases a Bleach inspired champ is the minute i officially change my name to my new Main Edit1: My only hate on Yasuo is the Double Crit Chance.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Never watched Bleach, but all my friends who like Bleach love Yasuo. xP

YerALizardHarry2 votes

Its people like you that show rank isn't always necessary to rework a champion, or buff/nerf a champion. I have tons of friends who are silver/gold and they know more numbers about league than i do, I barely know any numbers tbh

Melledoneus2 votes

Pretty cool rework idea. The only gripe I have with it is that the shield would have to charge up much slower if his base stats are higher.

Other than that, I like it. I would actually start playing him if they made these changes because that sounds fun.

WiegrafOfValor2 votes

#Just rework his passive from:


INTENT: Yasuo gains double the critical strike chance from all sources but his basic attacks and Steel Tempest respectively deal 90% and 75% damage when critically striking.

RESOLVE: Yasuo generates a Flow stack for every 59 / 52 / 46 units he travels by any means. At 「 100 stacks 」 and upon taking champion or monster damage, Yasuo consumes all Flow to shield himself for 100 - 510 (based on level) for up to 1 second.


#To:


INTENT: Critical strikes causes your target to bleed for an additional [ 20 - 128 (based on level) + 50% of your bonus AD ] as physical damage over 4 seconds. Steel Tempest has double the critical strike value.

  • It fits better his character, easier to balance and reduce his 100-0 burst.

RESOLVE: Yasuo generates a Flow stack for every 50 / 40 / 30 units he travels by any means. At 「 100 stacks 」 and upon taking champion or monster damage, Yasuo consumes all Flow to shield himself for 40 - 220 (based on level) for up to 2 seconds.


Dabrick013 votes

if you get 100-0 bursted by a FIGHTER, then you let him get too fed.

I said in another post here that his crit makes him shy away from the tanksuo build. i don't want to type it over again to you, so just look for it.

His resolve needs to make him tanky to survive for more than half a second in a teamfight. Lowering that would be idiotic.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

I really like your idea for wind wall!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the purpose of the crit passive to keep him from abusing bruiser and juggernaut builds?

What if the crit passive didn't give 100% of its 2x multiplier at the start of the game? Maybe if it scaled with his level it might be more ok. Maybe even make it part of his ultimate? I'm not sure. I think this would be important to keep him building crit items instead of just becoming annoying with Frozen Mallet and Titanic Hydra. I dunno though, what are your thoughts on this?

Arcus Diabolus2 votes

Good post, Mira.

My issue is with his passive shield. If you are not playing ranged, its hard to get rid of it, and it can play an important part in winning trades for him. If more things would take the shield like taking X damage from minions so he can't play the hit and run game and screw up anyone who can't match his range on his Q.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

hmmm, interesting. I also really like the windwall change. I think it would actually be even more satisfying seeing the projectiles slowed down matrix stile rather then see them just fizzle out anticlimactically against the wall like they do now.

I have a similar positive feeling about shimmer effects for stealth feeling badass..even tho realistically it should be something i hope to god never happens. xD

PermabannedGaren2 votes

I usually just troll and shit down the pants of anti-Yasuo posts because they're circlejerk bandwagoning bullshit, but I appreciate that you're just trying to foster discussion about the champion's health, so I won't do that.

The Bad stuff Double Crit Chance: In my very unprofessional opinion this feature of his kit can never be healthy. While it can be &#039;balanced&#039; from a win/play rate point of view, it has severe design problems. The problem with granting double crit chance is that it assures Yasuo can reach 100% damage efficiency with only 2 crit items. Now I choose my words carefully, mains who are about to say &quot;But Yasuo needs to build!&quot; Yes, Yasuo can and usually will build other damage items. But the thing is, the weakness of Crit as a mechanic is that it amplifies overall damage with each % that you get. You reach 100% damage efficiency with 100% crit.

Why is this a problem lass? I'm not sure I follow.

That also comes with reliability, when crit is designed to be unreliable.

It isn't on Yasuo. His kit is built around factoring in that at some point he is getting 100% crit.

Riot&#039;s crit mechanic making it reliable on Ashe resulted in nerf after nerf after nerf to her overall DPS output and the fact that she gets 0 burst, even then she still has to get 100% to get 100% out of her passive.

Ashe's kit is such that she dominates professional play when she is meta, and is even a prominent pick when garbage in solo queue. The same is not true of Yasuo. Ashe also has incredibly utility for an ADC, more than Yasuo has anyway, and when she was meta her DPS was one of the highest in her class despite her incredible utility. By contrast, Yasuo's DPS is lower than skirmishers like Tryndamere (who also arguably has higher burst), Master Yi (ditto), and perhaps Fiora. His DPS is fairly middling compared to others in his class.

Giving this kind of reliability and free power spiking in Yasuo&#039;s kit has allowed toxic things like tank Yasuo

Whoa whoa whoa whoa HOLD ON, Yasuo's crit passive had NOTHING to do with tank Yasuo.

item 3078 item 3022 item 1001 item 3026 item 3068 item 3053

This was his tank build. He did not build a single crit item. It was strong because of two reasons primarily: fervor of battle's flat on-hit damage being incredibly strong at the time, and his ult granting bonus penetration on everything. The build was effectively killed by making his bonus armour penetration apply only to crits, which are what you claim is what caused the build. There's no argument here. You're simply wrong.

His crit passive forces him to build damage to do damage, not the opposite.

as well as Yasuo getting &#039;shut down&#039; but unlike Riven he becomes relevant the second laning ends anyway and gets a quadra shortly after.

This frankly does not happen against good opponents. Against bad opponents Riven can do the same thing, so I'm honestly not sure why you're differentiating between the two here.

Yasuo's two item power spike is the most overrated in the game. Sure, he has strong damage due to his PD and IE (a Tryndamere has better damage though ayoooooo). But see, here's the thing: those items combined give a cloth armour in damage reduction. Even with defensive boots you're still very squishy in skirmishes and team fights, so good lockdown and focus still easily kills him. And if Yasuo is actually "shut down" he's going to have level disadvantage and be getting those two items when his opponents have like three+ items, and a Yasuo with two items can't get a quadrakill against a team that's ahead of him unless they play very badly. I really don't know where this meme came from. Yasuo is one of the worst champions to play while behind.

Windwall: From a balance point of view this ability is 100% A-O-K. But this is probably the biggest &#039;anti-fun&#039; middle finger in LoL alongside Tahm stealing an ADC right before you kill them or Lulu&#039;s point and click Polymorph. They are abilities that aren&#039;t even all that fun for the user.

I think it's fun.

But they make the enemies utterly miserable.

Yeah losing isn't very fun.

The thing is, in most games people would tell you to suck it up and git gud. But Riot caters a lot to the whiners and crybabies. The thing is, that is fine.

I'd strongly disagree tbh. Catering to crybabies who refuse to play around an ability isn't a point in Rito's favor IMO.

Wind wall has the unfortunate design of Yasuo just throwing it out haphazardly in mid game and without any skill or effort deletes 2 incoming ults in a team fight

This is still a "get good" issue though. Good players don't throw everything at WW. A good Yasuo has to use his WW well against good players. A bad Yasuo doesn't really have to against bad players. I don't see the issue.

#What would I change about Yasuo? Nerfed &bull; Gathering Storm duration reduced to 5 seconds.

Might be too big a nerf but could live with.

&bull; Sweeping Blade now displays CD indicators for enemies and allies as well.

Tbh I used to assume this was the case. I don't know why it isn't.

Buffed &bull; Resolve shield increased to 110 - 600 based on level.

K.

&bull; Base HP, AD, Armor and Magic resist increased by noticeable amounts.

Horrible idea. None of the reworked changes you proposed weakened his laning phase significantly. This is just a straight buff to his laning power on a champion people already whine about being unfun to lane against, which you apparently think is important. Now he can actually just stat-check people top lane.

&bull; Steal Tempest base damage increased to 30/60/90/120/150.

Ditto.

Reworked Intent: No longer grants double critical strike chance. Instead Yasuo&#039;s basic attacks will now strike for bonus damage based on his critical strike chance and increased by critical strike damage like Ashe&#039;s passive, except no bonus 10% to start with as currently he starts with no benefit from the double crit without crit chance anyway. Instead he will scale slightly harder with the crit. Yasuo&#039;s Q will also benefit including the base damage.

So you want Yasuo to be forced to build more crit, is that it?

That would completely gut his scaling, and I'll tell you why.

You seem to think that Yasuo should build more like ADCs like Ashe or Jinx. But you're not taking into account an important fact: Yasuo is melee.

This alone makes a HUGE difference. What do you expect Yasuo to be building after PD and IE with your changes?

item 3085 item 3094 Useless on melee.

item 3508 While required for max efficiency, what Yasuo wants to build this? The mana passive is worthless, the CDR is mostly wasted, so you're paying a huge sum of gold for the AD and crit. Awful.

item 3087 Hey this one is actually still kind of usable, but it's still pretty bad. Yas already has okay waveclear, so in all other respects this is just an inferior PD, which you already have.

None of these items provide any survivability either, and once again, Yasuo is melee. So what, he spends four item slots on almost pure offensive power to get a bit above the damage he used to have, at the expense of the ability to survive team fights at all? Or does he do comparable damage with just two crit items? If so, what was the point of the change?

Here is what Yasuo tends to build these days: item 3046 item 3031 item 3047 item 3072 item 3022 item 3026

This is not a particularly tanky build, and it's about to get even squishier with the GA changes (which are frankly a nerf). He still builds mostly damage, but he has to dip into hybrid defense items with one pure tank item to be effective, since he's essentially an ADC that is melee. He can't afford to go YOLO full damage with over two crit items like Caitlyn can, because if he does he is going to die.

Windwall: Yasuo will create a blast of air in a 180&deg; half circle knocking enemies in melee range back a short distance(does not count as Airborne for his ultimate) dealing 15/30/45/60/75 damage increased by 2% for every 1% of critical strike chance Yasuo has and blocking ALL attacks against him for .75 seconds. After that it will expand out into a wall that will slow projectiles that pass through it by 20/25/30/35/40% and reduce their damage, debuffs and crowd control effects by an equal amount.

Wait hold on, so you want this ability to deal damage, knock enemies off of you, block all attacks (like a Darius dunk) briefly, and then still make projectiles mostly useless?

... sure, sounds great, I see no problem with this change at all. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Buffs to Resolve, HP, Armor and MR make up some survivability lost in laning and team fighting from the change to windwall as well as lost lifesteal from the removal of double crit.

Your change to wind wall hasn't lowered his survivability at all, especially not top lane, where it can now block melee abilities.

The Buffs to base AD and Steal Tempest base damage was to try to offset SOME of the lost damage from double crit. All these changes to damage would actually be a slight buff to a 0% crit chance Yasuo in fact.

Why would you want to buff Yasuo before he's meant to scale...?

Reworked intent will force Yasuo to actually build damage if he wants damage.

He already has to build damage if he wants damage though. You're fighting a battle that doesn't exist. Tank Yasuo is dead, you're factually ignorant about his crit being its cause, and short of a big shift in meta, masteries, and itemization it won't be coming back. I appreciate the sincere effort on tackling Yasuo's design, but frankly I think you missed the mark.

IronwallJackson1 votes

From one guy who's spent a lot of time thinking about the stuff that makes Yasuo's kit tick to another, well hat's off man, this is a fantastic post.

Ralanr1 votes

I'm fairly certain that his tank Yasuo build became apparent without the need to build crit (it was mainly triforce and FM with no crit items. Later after some nerfs he did end up building PD because his ult required crit).

I agree that it does make his spike too early and his damage too reliable, but I don't really think removing it is the answer.

Now your rework still has him build crit, but I have to wonder how this bonus damage he gets from crit works with the other bonus damage basic attacks get from crit.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

PBE would resolve fine tuning to insure his early game is okay, mid game is meh and late game is great. I think double crit is entirely a problematic design, I'd rather allocate more reliable early power and better survivability but now time for a detail response gotta hit the road.

Ralanr1 votes

Now your rework still has him build crit, but I have to wonder how this bonus damage he gets from crit works with the other bonus damage basic attacks get from crit.

This question still concerns me though. Or did you already answer it with PBE?

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Eyup. Pbe would smooth out numbers balance. I won't do numbers balance. I am an idea girl.

Ralanr1 votes

But what I don't understand is how is it functioning any different from how regular crit functions?

It feels like crit on top of crit. Except it's non crit that scales with crit but only applies on auto attacks, auto attacks that can crit.

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

By no longer havung double crit and instead scaling similar to Ashe he doesn't hit crit damage peak at 2 crit items. This delays this power and reduces his ability to build double crit into tank without losing damage. In return he'd get buffs to keep him functional without semi-tank build.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

PBE isn't exactly ideal for balancing...

In fact it's a pretty crappy place to do it.

zarxus12341 votes

yasuo is broken though....... once he gets 2 items he can start 1v2ing or 1v3ing.... and it really doesn't matter how many items you have. Watch yasuoo stream and the amount of bs you see will change your mind.

The amount of times he 1v2's and 1v3's is disgusting. He may be hard as hell to play, he may be fun to play.... but that doesn't change the fact that he is broken.

Dabrick012 votes

He only does that in low elos.

Have you ever seen him in the LCS?

Though not.

ChaosThief2 votes

Well actually he has been in LCS at least once if I recall. However, the yasuo would at most kill a 300 health ADC before dying within a few seconds (though the amount of ground covered was quite large)

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