AP rune compensation

Jobriq·Dec 21, 2017·18 votes·1,475 views

When they removed the old runes they buffed the base values of spells for champs with bonus AD ratios to compensate. They didn't do this for AP champs with the reasoning being that the loss of MR runes would balance it out, but they didn't account for non-damage AP ratios, such as those on heals like Vlad Q, Swain R and Soraka heals. Also many shields have AP ratios and there are some movespeed buffs that have AP ratios (Lulu, Nami, Kayle W). These champs need small buffs to their spells to compensate.

26 Comments

BlåbæretDec 21, 201718 votes

Won't happen. Riot doesn't want AP to be a viable option. AD all the way, baby. Let's play ADC in all lanes.

CosnirakDec 21, 201710 votes

Pretty sure typical starting AP went up for most AP champions with Runes Reforged...

ChaddyFantomeDec 21, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure typical starting AP went up for most AP champions with Runes Reforged...

Dont bother using logic and reason. These threads always end the same. There is no reasoning with them.

GigglesODec 21, 20171 votes

But it went down... since I could start 50 ap (with first item) and still have masteries in the old system.

CosnirakDec 22, 20172 votes

You could but it wasn't worth it. I tried it myself as well.

I'd say the closest thing to that worth doing was AP marks instead of MPen marks on a couple champions, but sadly the better build was often AD or AS marks instead. I would guess there are a few edge cases where AP marks were worth, but they're fairly rare, typically already terrible matchups, and not at all worth creating a thread to complain about the loss of, especially since you can get most of the way there with the right rune choices in Runes Reforged anyways.

GigglesODec 22, 20171 votes

Sona botlane with 40 ish ap was great...

Just because you didn't do it, doesn't mean it could have never been done.

Just like how my main tank page was 46 armor and 43 MR at level 18... So yea... Got to diamond on that page too

So if you see me complain damage is too high its because I lost those runes.

CosnirakDec 23, 20171 votes

I liked to try a variety of stuff with rune pages myself (had the full 20 and some were certainly not meta) but that doesn't make them good and certainly doesn't make them better than Runes Reforged. There are some early game options and some late game options in the new system. Yes some of the extremes were reigned in a little but that doesn't mean it's a worse system or that there's no room for experimenting.

Your claims here smell strongly of bad science and vagueness. This is just some forum post and I don't expect detailed proof, but I'm fairly certain the rank you achieved has little to do with your rune page choice and a lot to do with other skills as well as playing to your choices including rune page (in your case, playing for the late game as a tank, or early game as Sona), not that the page itself was actually best. You can start with 40ish ap on Sona right now with other benefits beyond purely ap as well.

Also try to keep in mind that any time the furthest extreme with something like the old rune system is not only viable but in fact the best choice, it's almost certainly a sign of poor design or some notable imbalance. If max starting ap Sona is the best choice often something is almost certainly wrong. If it's rarely the best choice as a response that's a lot more likely to be healthy, but I claim that the new system has such response options built in as well, and without the insane jumping through hoops for a tiny niche choice that the old one required for such a build.

GigglesODec 23, 20171 votes

Your claims here smell strongly of bad science and vagueness.

I have 2k games on morde. I experimented alot. I found out exactly how I wanted to play that made me feel good every game.

Typically morde has a strong early game lane presence. Everyone can agree with this. Running my armor and mr tank page let me build damage items while still being tanky. I didn't have to try and itemize for everything all at once. This gave me alot of inherant power in deciding what I wanted to purchase and how I wanted to play the game. Again, this is all for my play style. Not saying it should work for everyone, but for me it worked extremely well. Now I don't have those options anymore. There aren't even hoops to jump through that give me options like that.

I can't use aftershock. Guardian feels ehh cause of its range requirement (and a teammate). To top it off if I'm farming as I should I won't get hp from grasp...

CosnirakDec 23, 20171 votes

And? I already addressed all the points you gave here besides Resolve keystones. And yeah, I agree Resolve feels like it needs another keystone added for champions who want to be tanky but can't really make good use of the existing ones. Riot has also said they see that gap and would like to fill it, but no promises and probably not super right away.

There aren't even hoops to jump through that give me options like that.

Thank god!

TeCoolMageDec 21, 20172 votes

Ehh 15 from quints, 10 from glyphs = 25 from sorcery

15 from dring is same

More MPen (either flat or %), healing and AP in the old masteries, more % damage, damage from effects, and mana in new runes

Non damage AP effects really did suffer honestly.

CosnirakDec 22, 20171 votes

Ehh 15 from quints, 10 from glyphs = 25 from sorcery

But now you can get AP from specific runes as well, so I guess it depends but my typical builds certainly have me starting with more.

More MPen [in the old masteries]

Due to the removal of MR from glyphs... effectively no. Except in cases where some people didn't take MR glyphs, in which case yes. This is part of what makes things a bit wonky when it comes to the differences. 12 flat MR was very common, but it was still far from taken 100% of the time. But overall it is mostly like getting more MPen for most.

[more ]healing and AP in the old masteries

Healing is only slightly different if we're assuming Aery vs Windspeakers (and possibly target having runic armor). The previous masteries gave literally 0 AP.

more % damage [in new runes]

Actually less (no straight up % more ability damage in Runes Reforged vs 2% from old masteries), but the difference is rather small.

[more] damage from effects, and mana in new runes

Absolutely.

Non damage AP effects really did suffer honestly.

I think that actually depends somewhat on your build. Try runes that give AP if you want that. I think the bigger issue is certain champs, roles, and playstyles suffering from indirect changes.

HäxelDec 21, 20174 votes

You say it so casualy as if all these champs are weat at the moment. While in reality the meta of the runechanges favored all of them and they sit allready over 50% Winrate. Some even on the stronger side so that riot consider nerfing them (kayle, heal/shield supports (itemnerfs).

Sraeg2013Dec 21, 20171 votes

Then please explain why my main (Syndra) has the 3rd worst winrate in the game after preseason started.

TeCoolMageDec 21, 20172 votes

But Syndra doesn't have any non damage AP ratios...

HäxelDec 21, 20173 votes

Yea, Syndra wasn't here the topic cause she hasn't any non damage Ap ratios. Syndra has other problems right now.

GigglesODec 21, 20172 votes

armor went down, base ad went up... not sure why we even had that change.

TeCoolMageDec 21, 20171 votes

I mean, the changes are inherently inequal, this means your first cloth armour with be much more impactful while a dblade will be worth less for early trades.

GigglesODec 21, 20171 votes

But duskblade was designed that way so it wasn't "purchase this item and auto win lane"

I can't buy simply just buy an armor item and compete with lethality...

TeCoolMageDec 22, 20171 votes

Err when I said dblade I meant to type in longsword but was thinking of doran's blade

Duskblade has its own problems (passive, the lethality part is easily negated by a single cloth armour which is worth much less gold wise)

Death by GlamourDec 21, 20171 votes

Tbh soraka never had this amount of ap in the first place

ShablagooDec 21, 20171 votes

Pretty sure having no mr compensates enough as for heals and shields they are naturally increased by items like ardent and redeption, also most of the shielders dont even start with ap runes regardless so I dont see the problem.

Dani El PezgloboDec 21, 20171 votes

All champs of the game got their mr reduced, ye ap items suck, but this is inneed (and im a mage main)

NasuunaDec 21, 20171 votes

they didn't need to buff ap damages

just like the didn't need to buff ad damages.

AirKingNeoDec 21, 20171 votes

Kayle never used AP runes. Supports don't need buffs (already powercreeped). Swain doesn't need to ruin top lane more.

Only argument I see is Vlad.

T4underboltDec 21, 20171 votes

No. Shield heals supports are abomination without any buffs. Same for vlad and swain.

Nut on my ButtDec 21, 20171 votes

Why is this upvoted? Non damage ap ratios don't need compensation because they aren't mitigated by MR anyway and you can get more flat ap from runes now than you could before.