Rammus vs. ZZ'rot

Jobriq··197 votes·8,353 views

Rammus 's ulti Tremors doesn't damage enemy ZZ'rot Portals. The portals are considered structures so I believe they should take damage from it.

54 Comments

tbc5650 votes

ok

SirPacifista6 votes

I believe its useless arguing here about logic with "people" who believe that its completly ok for 1 champion Fizz to avoid 99% of all spells with jumping on a tridant stick.

jeah... if thats your logic... ok, you then you are "special", then dont complain if item 3512 is coded as a minion, because that would be pretty hypocritical if you say that the first one is completly ok, bu the second is not.

da glorious21 votes

Fizz e is pretty consistent. He is coded as untargetble. If he is tethered before he E's the tether stays. Veigar e is not a tether, so he can go through it. Tristana and zac aren't untargetable, so they are stopped. As for the blinks, everyone knows that league doesn't thematically make sense a lot of the time.

SirPacifista4 votes

everyone knows that league doesn't thematically make sense a lot of the time.

thats what my point was.

Veigar e is not a tether,

Yes, but its supposed to block all means of going though it (all dashes), and Fizz aint blinking.

Tristana and zac aren't untargetable, so they are stopped.

True they just jump WAY over the visible wall. But hey, riot dfoesnt care about that.

With Fizz, how does Jumping on his Pogo stick makes him untargetable? who cares, time-and-space shifting magic perhaps. but what i intended to mean with fizz was this: You ult fizz withVeigar Brand Darius Fiddlesticks Lissandra Kassadin Katarina Zed Ziggs Kennen Nunu Vladimir Karthus

And he does not take damage if he jumps? why? ok he is

He is coded as untargetble

But he was targeted before, and the Ult is normally not avoidable. He is still in Range of Most abilities but does not take damage (KARTHUS NUNU FIDDLE etc)

does not sound consistent if a teither stays, but everything else does not.

Wimbledofy8 votes

There is no such thing as jumping in league of legends. Visuals in league are 3d but the gameplay is 2d. Any "jump" in the game is a dash unless it is a blink like kat's shunpo. There is currently nothing in the game that is in between a blink and dash.

Parceval2 votes

{quoted}

There is no such thing as jumping in league of legends. Visuals in league are 3d but the gameplay is 2d. Any "jump" in the game is a dash unless it is a blink like kat's shunpo. There is currently nothing in the game that is in between a blink and dash.

This.

Jumps do not exist, they're all hard coded spaghetti messes.

Fizz cannot be targeted by anything during his jump. Drain and Ravens are 'dots' that are broken only by x-y distance. They're not actively targeting him, though it appears they are, but instead have placed a 'dot' on him just like ignite, that can only be broken by distance from the source.

SirPacifista1 votes

I know how his ability works ;D

also i know how these thinks are coded, but you have to admit that this then looks pretty stupid (for example a Tristana or Zac who cant jump out of Veigars E, but over everything else)

I still think its ok to questions, how jumping on his tridant makes in invunerable against thinks like Karthus or Ziggs Ult.

Boulderox1 votes

Ekko has both on one button....

SirPacifista1 votes

[zombie-brand-clap] ohh you know what dashes are and blinks are good for you... did i ever mentioned dashes or blinks? Did i questioned hard coded game mechanics? OR did i perhaps mentioned that riot does quite many things even through it make thematically no sense?

I hope you can understand the difference in meaning by reading this... I will make an clear example for you what i mean and make it clear and slow for you, so even you can follow it:

Talon can "bilnk" with his ability, and won be stopped by for example Veigar s Cage. Talon is no mage, why can he "blink"="teleport"="shift through space and time"? i dont question if he cna do it, since i know, i question why? Same with MasterYi . I know its coded like that, still makes no sense

is that so hard for you to understand?

Wimbledofy1 votes

You're trying too hard to connect lore to gameplay mechanics. Until they change the mechanics to allow for thematic abilities to make more sense thematically it will stay as is. Talon's ability for the sake of gameplay is a blink, but that doesn't mean he actually has that power.

If you complain about this not making sense then you must also complain about how malphite is not as big as the entire maps, and many champions not being extremely op. No normal human champ in league of legends would be viable if it "made sense."

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

thats what my point was.

Yes, but its supposed to block all means of going though it (all dashes), and Fizz aint blinking.

True they just jump WAY over the visible wall. But hey, riot dfoesnt care about that.

With Fizz, how does Jumping on his Pogo stick makes him untargetable? who cares, time-and-space shifting magic perhaps. but what i intended to mean with fizz was this: You ult fizz withVeigar Brand Darius Fiddlesticks Lissandra Kassadin Katarina Zed Ziggs Kennen Nunu Vladimir Karthus

And he does not take damage if he jumps? why? ok he is

But he was targeted before, and the Ult is normally not avoidable. He is still in Range of Most abilities but does not take damage (KARTHUS NUNU FIDDLE etc)

does not sound consistent if a teither stays, but everything else does not.

He needs to take damage after being targeted to be fully targeted

SirPacifista1 votes

which sentence of mine did you make you believe that

He needs to take damage after being targeted to be fully targeted

is a valid answer to? Think about how THIS WHOLE POST is how riot does not makes sense sometimes, not about how the abilities work (since i know all the abilities are working and interacting, else i oculd not make my post) So again my post was about how riot makes thematically no point, not how anything works. or can you explain why item 3512 is a minion?

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

which sentence of mine did you make you believe that

is a valid answer to? Think about how THIS WHOLE POST is how riot does not makes sense sometimes, not about how the abilities work (since i know all the abilities are working and interacting, else i oculd not make my post) So again my post was about how riot makes thematically no point, not how anything works. or can you explain why item 3512 is a minion?

Your point was really unclear...

Its a minion cuz league of spaggeti code bugs

I was refering to fiddle w. Swain e for example if it hits fizz thenfizz e is useless but if he dodges the projectile with e then it is not

da glorious1 votes

The tether has to connect for it to stay. If fizz e's a quarter of a second before Leblanc chains hit, the tether isn't applied. The reason the abilities you mentioned don't have an effect is they have a delay/travel time. If brand ult hit fizz before he e'd, fizz would take the damage, and all other effects and procs it might have. Fizz can't e ryze w after cast because it doesn't have a delay.

SirPacifista1 votes

I never questioned any of what you said, soo... why are you answering me with this? ;D [zombie-brand-clap]

da glorious1 votes

U asked why targeted abilities like Lisa ult don't connect and I answered.

SirPacifista1 votes

Not really, i said they dont hit and that makes no sense because these abilities use a huge radius to attack and fizz is only jumping in the air.

I never questioned how it works (because i know how), but i questioned the logic behind it. i also never asked or questioned WHY some abilities do NOt connect him if he jumps, since that is quite clear, again, i just questioned the logic.

because its hard to avoid Karthus ult, only by jumping upwards (no, AGAIN i mean from the logic, trust me, i know how 99% of all abilities work in the game, i have played far more games than you)

da glorious1 votes

"With Fizz, how does Jumping on his Pogo stick makes him untargetable? who cares, time-and-space shifting magic perhaps. but what i intended to mean with fizz was this: You ult fizz with

And he does not take damage if he jumps? why? ok he isut he was targeted before, and the Ult is normally not avoidable. He is still in Range of Most abilities but does not take damage (KARTHUS NUNU FIDDLE etc)

does not sound consistent if a teither stays, but everything else does not."

Well I guess i misunderstood your question. But even if you weren't meaning to, you have to admit that that can be understood as questioning the mechanics.

NotClarkolas1 votes

That's why fiddle is annoying to play against in the early game as Yi

SirPacifista1 votes

Fizz e is pretty consistent. He is coded as untargetble.

never questioned that he is inconistent, i siad riot is inconistent in making him like that. Also he is not only untagetable, but also immune against all sort of CC and AOE, which is cute since he only jumps upwards on his little tridant. and stays in range of most Aoe abilities. again, not aginst fizz, but rather about riot doing whatever they like, even through it does not make sense.

Auz the Ripper5 votes

Everything in this game is really consist. Everyone of each kind of ability functions the same as every other ability of that kind.

You want see inconsistently, Look at DotA; everything has an exception in DotA.

Some on-hit effects will work with others some won't, Some CC in DotA will go through CC immunity Some abilities in DotA will even ignore invulnerability and kill you regardless.

Every ability in DotA basically has its own interaction with every other ability

SirPacifista4 votes

Dude.... your comment is just bad. I made clear examples and you say:

"no everything is fine, could be worse."

No your whole comment didnt say anything except that you dont like dota and think that comparing to dota will give your comment more credit, for whatever reason. Thats just cheap from your side, everything what said is still true and holds value, not like your post.

Anidan2 votes

As someone who knows the ins and outs of DotA2's mechanics: At least when their stuff seems inconsistent at first glance it's for balance purposes and not due to spaghetti code. It'd feel pretty shitty to have Batrider's Flame Lasso, or Enigma's or Faceless Void's ults be ignored by spell immunity, for instance. Though, most abilities that pass through spell immunity are physical effects, not magical, so....

Up until recently, Enchantress couldn't use her only damage source, Impetus, on a hero with spell immunity, so for balance purposes, her Impetus now pierces spell immunity.

Auz the Ripper1 votes

I don't particularly mind the inconsistency, though it may appear as such from my original post, because the game is totally balanced around it like you said.

ZyniX2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Auz the Ripper,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=JA41qVmi,comment-id=00070001,timestamp=2016-03-03T00:18:13.938+0000)

Everything in this game is really consist. Everyone of each kind of ability functions the same as every other ability of that kind.

You want see inconsistently, Look at DotA; everything has an exception in DotA.

Some on-hit effects will work with others some won't, Some CC in DotA will go through CC immunity Some abilities in DotA will even ignore invulnerability and kill you regardless.

Every ability in DotA basically has its own interaction with every other ability

I dunno ahri charm no longer stops dashes but other cc does.

Auz the Ripper2 votes

only displacements like knockups other CC similar to charm like taunts and fears never did intentionally (there were a couple buggy times) Charm interrupting dashes was the inconsistency

TeCoolMage1 votes

DoTA 2 is so... weird.

They have all these weird interactions between night stalker and other heroes who have increased vision at night, Unique attack modifiers that can or can't have exceptions with some attack modifiers being non unique, magic immunity removes both buffs and debuffs and can be used on allies along with enemies, oracle. They also have a ton of super-counter-pick-y heroes like bounty hunter who counters the 5~ invisibility assassins in the game, and I think it's possible to use helm of domination against lifestealer using ult.

But despite the interaction between night heros, they don't make winter wyvern and crystal maiden or Lina and ember spirit have any less effects on each other's damage, so it's not the super-logical-route where everything makes sense in a thematical view.

Then there's heroes who literally change the core game mechanics like Wraith King increased death timers, and morphling agh clones.

LoL however suffers from only having champ to champ interaction on very specific things so Riot can sometimes resort to self buffs (kindred marks, anyone?) through mini games to keep it fresh: Buffs Debuffs (cc, etc) damage heals, shields terrain displacement (through movespeed buffs, CC, slows, terrain and things like bard portals or tahm ults)

With very few (annoying) exceptions like Cassiopeia ult, Yasuo Wind wall, Shaco backstabbing, etc. The worst of them, however, is that stupid Illaoi spirit.

ahferroin71 votes

I'm not entirely sure that at least Katarina MasterYi and Zed abilities are coded as blinks, there's significant inconsistency as to what affects them when they're in it (for example, all of them get slowed by Karthus W when they 'blink' through it, but flashing through it or using Kassadin's ult doesn't get you slowed).

Idroold1 votes
  1. zz rot can be moved with the help of Volibear Q
SirPacifista1 votes

thats why is said

most

because im not sure about z.z. rot (because i dont care baout that item) ;D

Hemulus6 votes

Reasonable request. Upvoted.

charcharmunro5 votes

Same for Sion ult, I believe?

Ecodeath4 votes

zzrot coded as minion

DarkRitual1 votes

Actually I do beleive that they are structures. Trundle can't Q it for example.

Yuumi or Lose6 votes

I've been able to Q portals with Trundle. I don't know if it's intentional but then again, Trundles Q is bugged on towers as I am randomly able to Q structures still after patch.

BUDDHISTINK1 votes

I believe his Q on towers was supposed to be taken away a patch or two ago.

Yuumi or Lose5 votes

Yeah it was taken away but there's a bug that lets you Q towers like it never happened. I believe the way it's replicated is if you try to Q a minion but it dies in the middle of the Q animation, the ability bugs out and lets you Q the tower for extra damage like it use to.

BUDDHISTINK2 votes

orly? dats G AF bruh.

LemurKick1 votes

It's the same thing with Ashe's Q

Squidblimp5 votes

Actually, you CAN still Chomp towers, BUT, you don't apply the bonus damage from Chomp. You can still use it to reset your auto attack. I saw a Rioter post on it, if I find it I'll let you know...

rtbf2256182411 votes

Trundle lost the ability to bite turrets a few patches ago.

Wimbledofy1 votes

minions also take damage from rammus ult so zzrot should still be taking damage.

Itadaki Seieki2 votes

{quoted}

zzrot coded as minion

If it was a minion Rammus's ulti should still deal damage.

ACTIVE: Rammus creates an earthquake around himself for 8 seconds, dealing magic damage to nearby enemies and enemy structures each second for the duration.

Minions get damaged by his ulti, so should it.

Silents4292 votes

I don't feel like this is a bug.

Nice one Cyril2 votes

ok

Xtage1981 votes

I do believe that all spells don't work on it so in theory no ability's should work at all and he is not the only buged champ so thats a thing to

bill841 votes

Except that most spells don't work on turrets either, excluding certain on hit spells and Rammus' ult. So if these on hit spells (Nasus q for example) can damage it then i think that Rammus ult should too. Edit: I am not sure if they do or do not damage it, but whatever it is it should be the same for Rammus.

Awkward Couch2 votes

I think a better example would be Alistars passive. The trample damage should be able to damage the ZZ rot since it works on towers as well.

bill841 votes

True.

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