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Hunter's Potion Sucks

Jobriq··54 votes·4,187 views

item 2003 Heals 150 hp over 15 seconds = 10hp/second item 2031 Heals 125 hp over 12 seconds ≈ 10hp/second. 2 charges = 250 total hp over 24 seconds item 2032 Heals 60 hp and 35 mana over 8 seconds ≈ 7.5hp and 4.5mana per second. 5 charges = 300 total hp, 175 total mana over 40 seconds.

Hunter's pot is really terrible in skirmishes due to the lowered heal speed. For many junglers who might like to use hunter's pot, the 250g is just not worth it for how mediocre the item is, especially considering you'll be reselling it in about 10 minutes. I think the hunter's pot duration should be shortened to 6 seconds (same total heal) so the heal per second is comparable to the refillable potion.

Additionally it would be nice if the hunter's pot was restricted to smite users similar to machete. I've had games where laners buy Hunter's Pot not realizing how terrible it is compared to item 2033 or regular potions . You'd have to take 3 jungle camps for the hunter's pot to heal as much total health as corrupting potion, and your junglier might complain if you were to do that. . . . . . . . . .

P.S. Blood Moon Diana skin Rito plz!

52 Comments

Asyde36 votes

If you factor in that you basically never run out and can keep a pot buff active on yourself indefinitely while in the jungle it really is an effective item.

I actually struggle to use all 5, and It keeps me topped off while in the jungle at all times meaning i never need to go back unless i've fought enemies or need to buy.

Additionally, the fact it includes mana is huge as well.

Tobias Brackner2 votes

This this this. That mana is dope as fuck to help me healthy and ganking.

EcchiOtakuTM4 votes

It's still a bad item, you can just buy refillable pots never upgrade it and sell it later on meaning it only cost you almost as much as 2 pots while still highly being used.

Hunter's pots are just terribly expensive and you're much better off just upgrading your jungle item in that time.

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

youd be forced to back every time you run out of pots. As opposed to the hunters, where you get topped off after every camp.

WoonStruck2 votes

{quoted}

youd be forced to back every time you run out of pots. As opposed to the hunters, where you get topped off after every camp.

Yes...let's delay our gank potential, clear speed, etc by letting yourself sustain an insignificant amount more...

sustain>relevant combat stats when any jungler can already clear at good health after first clear. :^)

Pretty much ANY jungler, I can make to the point where you don't need sustain at all after buying a total of 5 potions. 3 at the start, 1 or 2 first back, 1 at 2nd back if you didn't get 2 before.

If you're buying refillable or hunter's, you're literally wasting gold.

Dengeden2 votes

You're calling refillable bad? Wtf?

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

You're calling refillable bad? Wtf?

Yup. 3 pots sustains more. That means higher HP for a gank at the end, or actually letting you survive a full clear, making your exp/gold gain much more efficient. Plus you don't waste an item slot for an indeterminate amount of time. Raw items aren't much, but they're still stats that actually help.

Dengeden3 votes

But what if you don't need the additional sustain early? The only other option for a jungler with great sustain is a pink. Which is questionable in both soloQ and organized play. If you get low after or during a gank later on, the potion'll do its job. HP regen might be one of the worst combat stats but it's still a combat stat. The item slot won't matter much either unless your pinks get cleared instantly.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

But what if you don't need the additional sustain early? The only other option for a jungler with great sustain is a pink. Which is questionable in both soloQ and organized play. If you get low after or during a gank later on, the potion'll do its job. HP regen might be one of the worst combat stats but it's still a combat stat. The item slot won't matter much either unless your pinks get cleared instantly.

If you don't need extra sustain early, why are you thinking about refillable?

Dengeden2 votes

Because there's no other option? And then the rest of what I said applies.

FantasySniper3 votes

I agree, but most champions can go without it in the first place, and the fact that a 3 Pot start is arguably better than starting with the flask really isn't helping its value.

DaBittna4 votes

That's the way it is balanced I think. Forces you to a weaker start but pays off later in the game.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

That's the way it is balanced I think. Forces you to a weaker start but pays off later in the game.

It is, but its a terrible idea because it doesn't scale at all. Its just terrible through-and-through.

Anidan1 votes

I don't see anyone complaining about other potions not scaling, so that's kind of a moot point... It allows you to gain additional charges without backing to base. That can be pretty big depending on your playstyle and jungle choice. Just because it's not popular on champion.gg or other aggregate statistics sites doesn't mean it doesn't have its place.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

I don't see anyone complaining about healing pots not scaling, so that's kind of a moot point...

That's because healing pots are actually effective at the start of a game. For junglers, you do not need them after 1st and 2nd back at all.

Spending that extra gold on hunters just delays actual combat stats.

Furthermore, the large amount of sustain 3 pots gives you over refillable allows you to do a full jungle clear, or at least minus gromp/krugs and gank with near full health on the majority of champs, and if you can't gank, gromp/krugs.

This gives you your jungle item, plus boots and one pot. Far more effective than the mileage you'd get out of refillable/hunters, as you'll never afford that due to the minimal sustain you get through refillable early.

Just like the old item 3085 had its place, right? just like item 3056 has its place, right? In the case of item 3085, it was objectively bad unless you were abusing a multi-hit effect via AoE (hello pre-PBE nerf jinx, hello Kayle) Hell, it was even considered bad on Kog'Maw, of all champions, despite the gross increase to his DPS. The problem was that it wasn't single target DPS, which was the ADC hypercarry meta, and it was still situational at best.

Yes, something can sound good on paper, but that doesn't change reality. Something's effect on paper can be a longshot from how effective it is in reality.

FantasySniper1 votes

It isn't "later", it's more like "soon", then "not at all".

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

If you factor in that you basically never run out and can keep a pot buff active on yourself indefinitely while in the jungle it really is an effective item.

I actually struggle to use all 5, and It keeps me topped off while in the jungle at all times meaning i never need to go back unless i've fought enemies or need to buy.

Additionally, the fact it includes mana is huge as well.

1)You already have more than enough mana sustain with a jungle item.

  1. You already have more than enough HP/regen/armor to basically not take damage after 2nd clear unless you're Nidalee.

3)The fact that you struggle to use all 5 shows that you do not need it, and that some of your gold is being sunk on absolutely nothing.

It. Is. A. Bad. Item.

Sounds great on paper, gross waste of gold. You get more sustain over a game, especially with AoE, from the jungle item and the lifesteal/spellvamp mastery. If you're not taking that, it means you're in the tank tree, in which case why the hell is sustain in the jungle even a factor for you after 2nd clear?

The large majority of junglers end up with both, just to push my point further. Investing gold in sustain you do not need just delays effective combat stats.

A Latte Deaths9 votes

I don't jungle often, but I buy a Hunter's Potion any time I play junglers without built in sustain. I've always felt like it's a very strong item, and never once considered it weak. You basically buy it and never have to back unless you ganked a lane and lost a lot of health or mana.

EcchiOtakuTM3 votes

It's still a bad item, you can just buy refillable pots never upgrade it and sell it later on meaning it only cost you almost as much as 2 pots while still highly being used.

Hunter's pots are just terribly expensive and you're much better off just upgrading your jungle item in that time.

The Fast3 votes

A refillable pot is not nearly the same amount of sustain as a hunter's potion. Saying that you can stay out as long with a hunter's potion as with a refillable is just plain untrue, and if you don't think that statement is true, then you've just created a situation where the item is preferable, and therefore not bad. Udyr and Nidalee in particular love the item because it lets them stay out in the jungle for much longer than they otherwise would be able to, and their high clear speeds makes up both for the cost of the item and increases jungle pressure in mid-early to late-mid-game, wherein they now should be very far ahead.

Narasimha2 votes

The basic pots don't refill mana. And for champions without natural sustain and use up a lot of mana while jungling (Wukong, Evelyn, J4, etc), it can be a huge difference.

Jungle Lux God6 votes

Hunter's Potion healing as much as corrupting potion after taking 3 jungle camps really isn't a big deal when you take at least that many jungle camps as a jungler, not to mention that Hunter's Potion costs 100 less gold than Corrupting Potion. And it's not likely for the jungler to be mad at you for stealing camps for this item because you are either the jungler or are too stupid to realize that this item is designed exclusively for the jungler.

It also doesn't matter much that you don't have much health regen in skirmishes because you can start every skirmish at full health while farming your jungle due to how much sustain is there with a few jungle camps.

I think Hunter's Potion is bad if you actually need health regen because the champions that need it the most are the ones that can afford it the least unless you buy Hunter's Potion for mana regeneration on the second clear onwards. I wouldn't mind seeing the cost and regen on Hunter's Potion get reduced a bit so that it was more affordable this way.

EcchiOtakuTM3 votes

You can just buy refillable pots never upgrade it and sell it later on meaning it only cost you almost as much as 2 pots while still highly being used.

Hunter's pots are just terribly expensive and you're much better off just upgrading your jungle item in that time.

Anidan1 votes

I must have missed where refillable potions give mana, too.. was that in a set of patch notes I missed?

Ferus and Ferrum5 votes

I forgot smite once on Khazix and this actually wasn't a bad start for me. I still got invaded but this actually allowed me to clear on a camp-camp and I was able to keep up in levels.

MrWasjig3 votes

Phew, I wasn't just imagining things. I had a feeling it was lackluster but lacked any desire to do the numbers.

Silents4293 votes

But it has it's niche and does well with it, it's not suppose to be for skirmishes it's for Junglers with crappy sustain.

You can almost always have it active while clearing camps.

PalPlays2 votes

While it's amazing for sustaining in the Jungle, I agree, the regen is super slow.

RocketRelm4 votes

"Double the speed the healing applies to you while in combat with monsters"? That might do it.

Sluiceway2 votes

The idea behind it is cool, though, as it heals immediately if it is at full charges when you clear a camp (technically on large monster kills, but its not like anyone would kill the large monster and leave the rest). All they need to do is raise the healing numbers (90 hp.45 mana for example), lower the price to 150 (so it can be bought at the start) and, as you said, make it require smite.

EviIGreenRanger2 votes

I get Hunters potion for every champion i play. Sure it's kinda ok in skirmishes, but it really lets you stay out and jungle farm for so long that sometimes i have to look at my gold, dam sitting on 1.5-3k gold. Better stop farming and back to buy something.

Except Chogath i don't ever buy it on him. Only need one item 2003 to start and his passive keeps himself healthy.

joku jaskanen2 votes

Hunter potion is a bit redundant.. It never runs out, but you'll still need to B back to refill wards so a large part of it's benefit gets negated. It also has such a small window of usefulness since junglers outscale camps so hard that clearing them won't cost all that much health.

it's a niche item, the window for it's use is pretty much on the 2nd or 3rd clear, but at time you'll need the gold for better clear speed rather than sustain. I don't even want to consider a Hunters potion start..

Might be a good item for AFK farm junglers, but well ummm.. Do you really really want a item to promote such gamestyle?

morris14 votes

MasterYi yes

Anidan3 votes

Warwick Nasus

I concur.

FastAsHeck2 votes

the problem is that by the time you recall to buy it, you don't need it anymore.

Salron1 votes

Reduce the stacks to 3 or 4 but increase the healing per stack so that the total healing is unchanged so you get more per charge but the same overall amount

Sire Hippington1 votes

I think hunters is quite good once you get it due to the refill, though one could lower the duration tp increase the hp/5 to match other potions in terms of infight-regen.

The huge problem that makes it horrible to get is that 3pots nearly give twice as much hp as refileable potion for the first clear, and most junglers that would like hunter's for the sustain can't afford to take refillable instead of 3 pots, while those who can easily do the first clear even with refilable surely don't need to waste gold on aditional sustain with hunter's. Aditionally, rushing it befor the second jungle item means you fall behind in xp as jungle items increase the xp you gain from big monsters. so starting with refilable is bad, rushing hunters befor the jungle item(without enchantment) is bad, and once you have that jungle item you barely need aditional sustain anymore+getting hunters would just delay needed combat stats.

If hunters should be off any use, refilable needs tog et buffed for junglers so you can start with it, maybe add a refill upon smiteing big monsters, and add the same unique passive for xp from monsters that the jungle items have, so rushing it doesn't hurt your xp gain.

Tobias Brackner2 votes

I can start w/ refillable on a bunch of junglers, even when they say to get the red pots.

Sire Hippington2 votes

...and still do a full clear with enough hp for gank or atleast suviveing an invade? And if yes, do you really need hunter's on them to sustain through the jungle?

Tobias Brackner2 votes

I ward to avoid invades?

Hell invades in general are a rarity unless they are champ that specifically likes to invade.

Sire Hippington1 votes

with the mighty yellow trinket that only provides ~60% uptime for a single ward early on? if that works, your opponents aren't even trying...

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Well yeah, they usually won't unless they are someone who really wants to counter jung. I already said this.

Also last time I checked my team has wards too.

Jobriq1 votes

I never get hunter's pot before the second half of the jungle item because of the 15xp you'd lose out on. Maybe if you could get the full xp bonus from one half and make the passive unique so it doesn't double up when you get the other. Then again, maybe 60xp bonus wouldn't be terrible on the combined jungle items, after all, even with the current 30xp bonus junglers still fall behind mid lane in terms of level.

WadeWilson13371 votes

You are looking at this all wrong. The champions who dont need Hunters potion are top tier junglers who are almost always considered op. Even some of the op champs can benefit from hunters potion. Alot of LCS players have started taking it lately and i was scratching my head as to why someone like Reignover would buy an item i thought was a noobtrap item. The truth is the item gives you some sustain and mana so you can give blue buffs to your mid laner freely, and powerfarm your jungle without being gated by your mana and having to back after doing a full clear. 250g is a small price to pay to be able to go from your gromp to wolves, clear their red buff and wraiths, and then still have 90-100% of your hp and atleast 60% of your mana, and quite possibly even having a few pots to give you that little boost in a fight. Some champions LOVE hunters potion such as the following; Nidalee Gragas Udyr Nocturne

Randomonium1 votes

The difference is that I don't have to go back to base to get more charges on hunter's potion. On champions with poor sustain or who are mana dependent this is huge because it means you can clear a lot faster and be higher health when you gank. Because you can stay in the jungle longer without needing to recall you can make back the gold you spent on hunters potion within a couple camps.

So yeah, it's a noob trap on high sustain junglers but it's great for those who have sustain/mana issues.

The Fast1 votes

Hunter' Potion is not SUPPOSED to be better in skirmishes. It's meant to be a way to sustain through the jungle for very large periods of time. It's mean to be a healing over time effect in the first place. Not every jungle wants it, just like not every top laner wants Corrupting Potion. I, for one, I will keep using Hunter's Potion on farm junglers or low sustain junglers because its an amazing way to circumvent their weaknesses, albeit at a cost. The fact that hunter's potion replenishes per monster camp killed also means its potential max healing is MUCH MUCH higher than any of the other flasks. I dont see a reason for a laner to get it, but I also don't see a reason for it to be restricted.

Leanus Crain1 votes

I mostly use it when I know i'm going to get invaded a lot and need tons of health to not die.

Sukishoo1 votes

I only agree on the restricting of the item due to the fact that it says right on it " Killing large monsters grants one charge." and well, you don't do that in lane so it is clearly meant for jungling.

xBanox1 votes

item 2032

Dealth1 votes

I usually find myself using all 5 hunters potions at once which isn't really a good concept

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