So..What exactly is Vayne and Caitlyn's roles now?

Freeza with an I · 2019-09-11T20:52:28.066Z

This isn't a hate post against them, it's more confusion of the way Riot's been balancing them as of late. When I started playing in S4, I remember that Caitlyn and Vayne both had set roles as ADC's. What I mean by this is Caitlyn was an early-mid game monster where she'd bully her opponents but would fall off hard later. Vayne was the opposite, early game she had no way of easily killing someone but mid and late she became extremely strong. So..What's going on anymore? Cait is oppressive in lane and oppressive until late game, Vayne has strength early and tons of strength late game. I really wish they'd put them back into their set paths. It's really annoying that late game Cait can just one shot anyone and early game Vayne can deal extremely high damage. Though Vayne has weakness early still, Caitlyn kinda doesn't have a point in the game where she's weakened at all. I think this needs adjustment since no champ should be built around all-game power. It should be reserved for specific parts of the game instead of all game

EedatSep 11, 20193 votes

Vayne isn't even good early. She's trash early. Cait's isn't as pronounced but the trend is still there

Sightless66Sep 11, 201912 votes

Cait never had trouble late game. Safety is extremely important late game, and her E, traps and range give a ton of safety while items make up for the dps her kit otherwise lacks.

Her classic winrate by game length was u-shaped; high winrate early (when she is a bully) low midgame (where her lack of dps hurts her) and then high again very late (where items give her all the dps she needs). She still fits that pattern just fine.

She's never struggled late game, and there is no reason to expect her to now.

Freeza with an ISep 12, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Cait never had trouble late game. Safety is extremely important late game, and her E, traps and range give a ton of safety while items make up for the dps her kit otherwise lacks.

Her classic winrate by game length was u-shaped; high winrate early (when she is a bully) low midgame (where her lack of dps hurts her) and then high again very late (where items give her all the dps she needs). She still fits that pattern just fine.

She's never struggled late game, and there is no reason to expect her to now.

I remember vividly back before her rework she was weaker than a lot of other ADC's late game due to her power being reserved early. Now she has so much base and scaling power it doesn't matter what point of the game she's in, she'll still easily poke you away and one shot you for a slight mess up.

Sightless66Sep 12, 20193 votes

I remember vividly back before her rework she was weaker than a lot of other ADC's late game due to her power being reserved early.

No matter how vivid your memory is, it's still incorrect. She's always been good late game. Stats don't lie, and her winrate always jumped up after 40 minutes, even back as far as season 2. Her scaling has actually been hit over time. Hell, she used to have an insanely high base attack speed (it's been reduced from 0.668 to 0.568, which is a major hit to scaling), and significant armor penetration on headshots.

Cait is good late and early. That has always been true, and it still is. So long as she has long range and an escape mechanic, it will continue to be true for the foreseeable future.

ŚhunpoSep 13, 20192 votes

Nah, she was always a mid-game carry up until her rework.

Secretly a PhosSep 12, 20194 votes

What kind of stupidly used statistic is that? A late game scaling champion should not have a near-50% winrate in games under 15 mins. She's a late game anti tank champ, and tanks are late game champs as well, so why would she do even vaguely well early? She's a squishy scaling champ. This is an example of Vayne being strong, to say the least, when a late game squishy can still do pretty well when one team is snowballing hard, especially when most early snowball champs are assassins or other heavy burst champs, all of which counter Vayne early. Unless those statistics are HEAVILY skewed by feeding and AFK's there's no way she should have a 45% WR in games under 15 mins.

Nik NikersonSep 12, 20191 votes

Why shouldn't she? It is actually possible to drag a late game champ to an early victory.

Morgana Q MisserSep 12, 20192 votes

You'll see Caitlyn players that feed and deal 0 damage, you'll see Vayne players that go 7 0 in lane... you can't just say the fed version or more importantly the version that succeeds in lane should represent how the champion performs in average games

ThefrostyvikingSep 13, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Freeza with an I,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=H3rEAOQF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-11T21:20:22.808+0000)

Like I said, Vayne still isn't a god early since the initial nerfs. But Cait still doesn't have as much trouble as she should near end-game.

Try playing Cait against something with´proper armor and you´ll see where she falls off compared to say vayne/Kog.

Provided those armor users werent so dang rare, if there is no armor involved then no marksman really "falls" off.

So..What exactly is Vayne and Caitlyn's roles now?

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