If you have an opponent with both LW and BC, should you simply NOT build armor?

darkdill·May 15, 2015·1 votes·643 views

Seems kinda pointless to build a Randuin's against a Khazix who will just ignore half your armor. Skip Randuin's and go Warmog's/Frozen Mallet?

15 Comments

sp441May 15, 20151 votes

Armor still mitigates considerable amounts of damage. Plus there's still the ADC to worry about.

darkdillMay 15, 20151 votes

Perhaps, but a Frozen Heart or other armor item would lose massive amounts of its cost-efficiency. Meanwhile a Warmog's is unaffected by a Black Cleaver.

sp441May 15, 20151 votes

And he's losing out a lot of potential damage by rushing so much armor penetration.

Sona PingMay 15, 20151 votes

"Cost-efficiency for item" is a just a tool; a tool with very limited applications. Don't pay too much attention to it.

The real issue to look at is this: what your stats will be against those with different items. Even if they have a Last Whisper, would you rather have them hitting you when you have 58.3 armor reduced to 37.8 or when you have a Randuin's and 128.3 armor reduced to 83.4?

How a Randuin's compares to Warmog's is a different question, that depends on a lot more stats and more math for you to do yourself.

Rand0mH3r0XMay 15, 20151 votes

40% pen of 100 armor is 60, but 40% pen of 40 armor is 24.

At 60 armor you already block ~40% of physical damage At 24 Armor you block ~ 23% of physical damage.

I would say it's better to build Randuins even if the enemy Kha has Armor pen. It would only make him stronger for you not to. 300 extra health with Warmogs isn't going to do anything except let you last one more hit from him.

Sightless66May 15, 20151 votes

It depends on how much health you have. If you have no health items when they have high armor penetration, then yes. If you have a lot of health already, than you need armor to back it up, even if the armor gets reduced.

SleepyLionCubMay 15, 20151 votes

All that, on vayne, with a botrk too.

darkdillMay 15, 20151 votes

Sounds like she had to give up Infinity Edge for that BC. Or her PD.

SleepyLionCubMay 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Sounds like she had to give up Infinity Edge for that BC. Or her PD.

What's wrong with IE, PD, Boots, Botrk, and BC?

darkdillMay 15, 20151 votes

Touche.

ReikkenMay 16, 20151 votes

Nothing, but LW is missing, so it's not what was advertised.

LegendaryLemurMay 15, 20151 votes

I'll just put a few more numbers into the discussion. This is oversimplified and there are a lot more factors to consider i'm just looking for some kind of baseline.

So lets say you have 80 base armor and 2000 base health. (these are approx values at level 18) A fully stacked cleaver reduces your armor to 80 x .7 = 56, and the last whisper penetrates as though you had only 56 x .65 = 36.4 Effective hp versus physical damage = 2000 x (100+36.4)/100 = 2728.

WIth a randuin's: 150 armor 2500 health 150 x .7 x .65 = 68.25 2500 x 1.6825 = 4206.25 effective health vs phys

With a warmog's: 80 armor 2800 health 2800 x 1.364 = 3819.2 effective health vs phys

Other factors to consider include, but are not limited to: warmog's is more useful vs magic damage, effects of masteries, warmog's is cheaper, cleaver isn't always fully stacked.

Photos of GhostsMay 15, 20151 votes

Armor is more effective at low points (it grants you always 1% of your VISUALIZED hp per 1 point, so the more points you have the less the next one will matter). As a result, ignoring armor hurts much more on low armor targets.

FantasySniperMay 15, 20151 votes

Armor+Health always works better than just stacking armor, which means that so long as you stack both, %HP and %ArmorPen effects are still reduced in effectiveness each.

ReikkenMay 16, 20151 votes

Here's how I see it:

I can build armor and have like 50 effective armor after he fully stacks cleaver (and a bit more before) or I can build no armor and have him do true damage to me

0 armor and 50 armor is the difference between taking 1000 damage and taking 667 damage armor is always worthwhile