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why the actual fuck does the new aoe smite work on zac's passive

brad··23 votes·3,315 views

im almost fine with zac's passive bloblets being smite-able but this is ridiculous

you talk about champion diversity this and 'we care about the health of all champions in our game' but something as simple as this plunges a champion into shit tier and you dont even help him out let alone acknowledge that its a real problem

and then you turn around and flat out change the way dragon auto attacks work because pantheon could solo it if it wasnt warded

champion diversity what??????

41 Comments

Cloud2735 votes

Smite works on ALL champions now. The blobs are Zac, just in a different form. So, when you think about it, are smiting the blobs really any different than smiting a champion?

brad10 votes

{quoted}

Smite works on ALL champions now. The blobs are Zac, just in a different form. So, when you think about it, are smiting the blobs really any different than smiting a champion?

thats a good point but the aoe smite doesnt work on champions, why should it completely invalidate zacs passive

Bears Dont Care6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi Im Brad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GzEg2EEl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-01-03T04:05:55.190+0000)

thats a good point but the aoe smite doesnt work on champions, why should it completely invalidate zacs passive

Regular smite worked on Zac as well, as does other abilities because they are not considered Zac. They are considered monsters.

Flannel Mannel2 votes

So technically is Cho'Gath also considered a monster?

A Fiery Rundas6 votes

{quoted}

Regular smite worked on Zac as well, as does other abilities because they are not considered Zac. They are considered monsters.

It murders his passive, and with him being so poor right now, it's the nail in the coffin for zac

brad9 votes

{quoted}

Regular smite worked on Zac as well, as does other abilities because they are not considered Zac. They are considered monsters.

exactly

they shouldnt

Killstrado2 votes

You are stupid

Raptamei3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi Im Brad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GzEg2EEl,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-01-03T03:23:37.380+0000)

you talk about champion diversity this and 'we care about the health of all champions in our game' but something as simple as this plunges a champion into shit tier and you dont even help him out let alone acknowledge that its a real problem

Every champion should have a weakness like this.

It encourages counterplay.

The actual problem is that half of the cast has no real weaknesses.

Penguin Eclipse5 votes

{quoted}

Every champion should have a weakness like this.

It encourages counterplay.

The actual problem is that half of the cast has no real weaknesses.

This isn't healthy counterplay. This is a complete passive-destroying hard counter.

junglerboy163 votes

if they doubled the HP of each bloblet, made him come back from reviving with between 20-100% instead of 10-50%, and made the revive only take 4 seconds instead of 8, then I would be fine with him being smiteable. As it stands now though, his passive isn't half as strong as Aatrox's or Anivia's, and it should be the strongest considering that he is supposed to be a super durable tank, not a carry like those other two.

Cloud2732 votes

Regardless of whether the blobs are being treated as a monster or a champion, smite works on both of them, so why does it matter?

brad3 votes

{quoted}

Regardless of whether the blobs are being treated as a monster or a champion, smite works on both of them, so why does it matter?

it completely invalidates his passive

Space Hitman1 votes

His passive completely invalidates dying. Stop using this retarded half-thought over excuse. It isn't a viable argument because the same principle can be applied to exactly what you're trying to "save" here.

brad2 votes

{quoted}

His passive completely invalidates dying. Stop using this retarded half-thought over excuse. It isn't a viable argument because the same principle can be applied to exactly what you're trying to "save" here.

why dont we just remove all champion's passives if someone decides to take smite in a game (which they will)

maybe then you would understand what im talking about

Yulen Xoshxius1 votes

Just because you can't find an excuse doesn't mean it ins't a viable argument. It doesn't invalidate dying, it gives a chance to try and escape death with a tiny bit of your health to die again if you can't escape. In addition, the LoL wiki says it has a 300 second cooldown as it is.

Space Hitman1 votes

It invalidates dying as much as smite invalidates his passive. Wake up.

The Yetii Rider3 votes

{quoted}

Regardless of whether the blobs are being treated as a monster or a champion, smite works on both of them, so why does it matter?

The AOE smite from Trailblazer does not work on champions, but it does hit all of Zac's blobs, stunning them so they can't keep moving to his body and preventing him from reviving in time. It gives the enemy team an extra 1.5 seconds to deny Zac his revive, and then his passive goes on cooldown for 4 minutes. It's ridiculous.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

The AOE smite from Trailblazer does not work on champions, but it does hit all of Zac's blobs, stunning them so they can't keep moving to his body and preventing him from reviving in time. It gives the enemy team an extra 1.5 seconds to deny Zac his revive, and then his passive goes on cooldown for 4 minutes. It's ridiculous.

Well if this is the case perhaps Riot is treating the blobs as monsters, instead of champions. I don't know, because I'm not Riot balance team. If this is the case, I think Riot should change it to where the blobs are treated as champions. You can still smite one of the blobs, but not all of them at once.

Rock Rockburgh1 votes

...are you sure that's how it works? I thought that disabling the blobs didn't actually do anything; they don't have to reach his body, just survive for X seconds, right?

Leti the Yeti2 votes

the aoe smite in particular, which is the issue right now, only works on his blobs and not zac its also highy effective in countering his already shitty state

Br4ndon1 votes

What if they just made it so the AoE smite did the same amount of damage as chilling smite when used on zacs passive?

That way Riot can leave the BS aoe smite on zacs passive but at least it wont one shot all the blobs with 500~ true damage.

Though it is pretty BS a summoner spell meant for camp clearing is invalidating half a champions passive.

MPendragon1 votes

I think it's fine as it is. You're concerned over ONE hard counter to a champion? Avoid confrontations with the enemy jungler. I mean, I'm honestly going to say unless somebody is diligently trying to abuse the exploit, that you'll rarely ever see it occur.

Junglers rarely get Trailblazer first of all, unless they generically suck at jungling.

Zac's passive shouldn't be smitable? Yeah, well Zac + Orianna wombo combo shouldn't be so fucking broken, maybe if you exploited what his primary function is you wouldn't complain about this minisculity.

Neclord6 votes

{quoted}

I think it's fine as it is. You're concerned over ONE hard counter to a champion? Avoid confrontations with the enemy jungler. I mean, I'm honestly going to say unless somebody is diligently trying to abuse the exploit, that you'll rarely ever see it occur.

Junglers rarely get Trailblazer first of all, unless they generically suck at jungling.

Zac's passive shouldn't be smitable? Yeah, well Zac + Orianna wombo combo shouldn't be so fucking broken, maybe if you exploited what his primary function is you wouldn't complain about this minisculity.

Something tells me you don't play Zac very often.

Killstrado2 votes

I think he also never jungles because plenty of people get trailblazers especially if they have early clear issues and need the help

Penguin Eclipse4 votes

{quoted}

I think it's fine as it is. You're concerned over ONE hard counter to a champion? Avoid confrontations with the enemy jungler. I mean, I'm honestly going to say unless somebody is diligently trying to abuse the exploit, that you'll rarely ever see it occur.

Junglers rarely get Trailblazer first of all, unless they generically suck at jungling.

Zac's passive shouldn't be smitable? Yeah, well Zac + Orianna wombo combo shouldn't be so fucking broken, maybe if you exploited what his primary function is you wouldn't complain about this minisculity.

You are saying Zac, the jungler, should avoid confrontations with the enemy jungler? Have you ever played jungle?

MPendragon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Penguin Eclipse,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GzEg2EEl,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2015-01-03T16:38:07.361+0000)

You are saying Zac, the jungler, should avoid confrontations with the enemy jungler? Have you ever played jungle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjIJEWS3Ntg#t=30

Take a quick look at the first 20 seconds of this video, it's absolutely petrifying if you can see what's actually happening. I mean it gives me shivers every time I watch it because I can feel both sides of the confrontation simultaneously.

As I said before, you think smiting Zac's blobs are unfair, when he's got the potential to pull off something like this? There's a trade-off for everything. I understand you're pissed off, because you think it isn't balanced. Balance is something you have to sometimes envision outside the box, i.e. from a perspective you're not generally perceiving it from.

Some champions are designed to be this "wombo-combo' style, and if you aren't intended to play them in that way, i'm not telling you what to do, but you need to pick a different champion to best suite your playstyle.

junglerboy161 votes

Back when Zac still had tenacity on his ult, and a ton more damage and durability, yes he was strong. As of now, none of that would happen like that at all. Zac got kicked to the curb for being able to pull of fights like that, but now they introduced this new item that single handedly nullifies a core gameplay mechanic, without any sort of compensation. If he were strong like that video shows him, then MAYBE this would be ok, but right now, Zac is one of the weakest champs in the game and they are just kicking him while he's down.

junglerboy162 votes

Zac has zero chance at being reliably viable in any real match because unlike most counterplay where you can pick a different champ that poses a particular problem for somebody on the other team, EVERYONE can get smite, and EVERYONE can get ranger's. Even if you pick Zac into a champion that he should normally shut down really hard (which is already a small number) they can pick up a single spell and one super cheap item to completely nullify something that is supposed to make Zac the tank of all tanks. Consume hurting Zac is fine, that is just counter play. Smite hurting Zac is ok, but not great, but an upgrade that has this level of negative impact on a single champion that is so readily accessible to EVERY ENEMY YOU WILL EVER PLAY AGAINST is totally and utterly not ok.

Real counter play is conditional, but this isn't a condition, it basically means Zac will never make use of his passive at all.

MPendragon1 votes

{quoted}

Zac has zero chance at being reliably viable in any real match because unlike most counterplay where you can pick a different champ that poses a particular problem for somebody on the other team, EVERYONE can get smite, and EVERYONE can get ranger's. Even if you pick Zac into a champion that he should normally shut down really hard (which is already a small number) they can pick up a single spell and one super cheap item to completely nullify something that is supposed to make Zac the tank of all tanks. Consume hurting Zac is fine, that is just counter play. Smite hurting Zac is ok, but not great, but an upgrade that has this level of negative impact on a single champion that is so readily accessible to EVERY ENEMY YOU WILL EVER PLAY AGAINST is totally and utterly not ok.

Real counter play is conditional, but this isn't a condition, it basically means Zac will never make use of his passive at all.

You're level 21. I realize you have an opinion, and each person does. But in all reality, anything you say has no validity to it. You aren't a beta tester nor are you playing the game at a competitive level. If you believe he's got some serious flaws to his kit, stop playing him. I used to enjoy playing Ashe, until I realized that she is bar-none the worst champion in the game. Predominantly the reason I no longer play her.

junglerboy162 votes

And you are a moron who assumes that level means everything. You are dismissing a totally factual and logical argument that applies regardless of experience with the game (Even somebody who has never played could see the flaws present in having a globally available spell that totally nullifies his passive), all because you wish to use a fallacious argument that because my account is low level it must mean my opinion has no backing. You are only reverting to using my level on this account as an excuse to not address the real issue.

MPendragon1 votes

{quoted}

And you are a moron who assumes that level means everything. You are dismissing a totally factual and logical argument that applies regardless of experience with the game (Even somebody who has never played could see the flaws present in having a globally available spell that totally nullifies his passive), all because you wish to use a fallacious argument that because my account is low level it must mean my opinion has no backing. You are only reverting to using my level on this account as an excuse to not address the real issue.

Ok, so I am an idiot. How is that going to change the outcome of your problem? I just offered you a solution to your problem, which may or may not be the type of solution you are seeking. If you want to address the issue to Riot, because you believe firmly in the shatter of mechanics, then that is what you must do. And i'm going to be honest with you, that is not going to be very easy at all - yet you just might do it. You will have to find a way to address your issue perfectly.

For example. I have been trying my damnest to address the strongest problematic behavioral issue to Riot - when people decide to leave their comrades left for dead. Sometimes I understand why they're doing it (they aren't confident in their ability to perform, they think they're going to die and the value of their death isn't going to be worth them engaging.) But for the majority of the time, it's quite invalid. It's generally a poor tactic, it isn't strategic in any way, unless your game plan is to lose the game.

I have discovered "a" reason, that directly links certain individuals "refusing to participate as a team" (what I call it, because people think Left for Dead is a video game about zombies...) and other players' toxicity (because they are concerned with these actions, as they are generally game changing. See I believe every action has a consequence. And the first time your comrades leave you high and dry, the consequence is your opponents begin this snowball effect. It happens just like that, and the game is probably already lost for a multitude of reasons that I could go thoroughly in to, all of which stem from this single incident.

ImHerVoice1 votes

smite works on everyone. zac was able to be smited because his blobs are neutral monsters you can also teleport to him with your entire team if you wanted to run 5 tps like a crazy fuck troll team.

And smite has helped me kill a zac under turret before. So No.

Killstrado3 votes

Two versions of smite work on everyone, five versions work on only Zac plus machete does increased damage to his bloblets aswell as some masteries give extra damage to his bloblets, so piss of its not fucking fair when you can click one button and turn off his passive

Toothierosprey32 votes

What if the trailblazer's smite, meant for clearing the jungle faster, could invalidate any champ's passive? That's how it is for Zac. The other two smites barely do any damage, but can still take away 1/4th of his health when he divides.

brad2 votes

{quoted}

smite works on everyone. zac was able to be smited because his blobs are neutral monsters you can also teleport to him with your entire team if you wanted to run 5 tps like a crazy fuck troll team.

And smite has helped me kill a zac under turret before. So No.

i dont think u even understand what im talking about in this thread

killd0zer1 votes

The same reason you can teleport to a Zac blob, and Nunu can Consume it. They are consistently counted as minions.

FuzziestPickle1 votes

Does this mean cho'gath can feast a blob and insta-kill it?

killd0zer1 votes

Yeah he can, afaik abilities like Garen's E that do reduced damage to minions also do reduced damage to his blobs.

brad2 votes

{quoted}

The same reason you can teleport to a Zac blob, and Nunu can Consume it. They are consistently counted as minions.

what do you think im trying to argue here?

just because something is one way doesnt mean it needs to stay that way for all of eternity

killd0zer1 votes

I was just answering your question.

Killstrado1 votes

How bout this you dumb fucks that think this is ok, how bout we make smite just cancel every fucking champs passive so that way you can get the fucking hint and realize what bullshit it is to single out one champ that already has enough problems

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