@Riot: Talk About Zyra

Vekkna··1 votes·495 views

For as front-and-center as she is in this mage update, you aren't talking about her. Search for "Zyra" with comments from Riot:

0 results in past 24 hours. 2 results in past week, a bug and a comment about Karma 3 results in past 30 days, all bugs or skins and a comment about Karma

Part of adding "identity" to mages has been shifting power towards minions, like with Zyra, Malz, and Annie. Zyra players in particular have been trying to get Riot to engage in conversation about the plant AI for at least a year without much success.

The closest we got to an actual answer were these two comments from Meddler: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EjtVw5RB-meddler-what-exactly-did-the-zyra-ai-tweaks-touch-up-on?comment=0000

Zyra's plant logic will not be that much different. Here's the actual logic for those curious:

  1. Units that have taunted the plant (e.g., Shen), whatever their range.. they will just stare at an out of range unit while taunted
  1. Champs Zyra has auto-attacked in the last 3 seconds (prioritizing most recently attacked)
  2. Champs that have recently been attacked by any plant (prioritizing nearest)
  3. Champs within 350 units of the plant -- for reference, 350 is the size of Lee Sin's E1 or Evelynn's R (prioritizing closest)
  4. Non-champs Zyra has AA'd (prioritizing most recently attacked)
  5. Any unit in range (prioritizing closest)

The changes in 5.18 are that: 2 and 5 now use "most recent" over "closest", allowing Zyra to better re-direct plants to higher priority targets; Plants will no longer get hung up on invisible targets, such as champions in fog of war; Plants will no longer sometimes mis-believe that they attacked on spawn (which caused a long delay before their first real attack); Plants will quickly move to face the target they are going to attack next, so you can get a better sense for how your actions shape their priorities.

The problem is and has always been that #3 does not work. At all. Ever. 100% broken.

What actually happens is this: -spawn plant at feet of enemy champ -plant attacks enemy champ -plant then swaps to closest minion

The priority system given repeatedly by Riot does not work as stated. If #3 was working, the plant would continue to attack the champ "recently attacked by any plant." That does not happen, and Riot has not given any explanation as to why in any of the many threads asking for clarification since 5.18.

You are clearly shifting power to plants and nerfing Zyra's direct damage capability, so the plant AI conversation really needs to happen now. I don't mean to sound rude at all, but it's pretty exasperating when devs say something works a certain way, it clearly doesn't work that way, and the devs don't engage with any of the posts asking for clarification.

8 Comments

Privileged Jew2 votes

As a Zyra main my two primary concerns are the potential uses of the new passive, and the replacement wall-shaped Q. I liked the circle. It's easier to land and to poke with(harder to sidestep). The only reason they changed it was to allow Q to be able to proc the seeds spawned by her new passive in addition to the ones you laid out just after Qing. That's why it's so damn wide. But I'm really worried about not being able to use it effectively for that purpose. I play Zyra offensively. I like to view her as an offensive Heimerdinger of sorts because she always spawns the plants right on top of enemies as part of her rotation.

But now the focus is towards making her like Heimerdinger, but with extra counter engage potential? Less lane harass? Really worried about her update. Especially given that her passive (while disliked by many) has allowed my ADC to win so many bot fights when I was focused down during a trade.

Vekkna1 votes

She's not like Heimer at all when her "turrets" last 5 seconds and die as fast as Illaoi's tentacles.

What's the danger of running into a giant patch of plants if they're only going to attack minions? That's my question. Will plants be useless when you're zoned out of AA range (Annie, Malz, AD assassins, etc)?

PopCorn Chick3n1 votes

From my experience on PBE. The new plant ai is very satisfying to use because if you land your ability on the champion, the plant will priority that champion right away. When I mean right away, I mean the plant attack right after being summon and no derpy or attack minions for no reason unless you auto attack minion, then it switches the target. You should be more concern about her Q and passive. Not her plant ai.

Vekkna1 votes

Plants currently prioritize enemy champs for their first attack (if you hit them with the Q or E).

Are you saying that they continue to attack champs instead of reverting to "nearest enemy" priority and failing to follow the priority system as stated by Riot on multiple occasions?

Magnum Mack1 votes

I believe they explained the plant ai and targeting last night during a pbe stream where they played and answered questions about Zyra live for people. It was worth watching and was the last champ they did this gameplay spotlight on.

Her q is what concerns me most. That will take some getting used to.

Vekkna1 votes

Where can I find that, and did they actually address my question?

PopCorn Chick3n1 votes

Yes! I played on Zyra on pbe yesterday and I didn't like her new Q shape. It feels like a nerf to me, I don't mind the damage nerf on her Q because the plant ai actually hella smart and attack so fast now ( I love it). The Q shape always changes its angle when I'm facing at a different position and not as reliable as the old Q. We need to ask rito to revert that Q shape back.

Magnum Mack1 votes

The line skill-shot shapes always feel weird to me. I think of it like Graves and Vel'Koz which I was fairly useful with. It helps if you think of it like that.

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