PBE was testing a new item, Soul Sickle, that was supposed to give early mana leech and built into Essence Reaver to make its build path better, but it seems to have just disappeared.
Why? Game-breaking imbalance?
I'd like to be able to rush an Infinity Edge as CDR Sivir without having mana burnouts every minute. Having that half-way item would help that out a lot.
FantasySniper6 votes"Negative Feedback".
Understandable since it would make 
a pain the @$$. Giving easy mana too early is exactly what they are trying to avoid.
As is, 
is a suitable item for many ADCs, and only cases like 
and are in need of special treatment.
Teridax6812 votesI don't think Soul Sickle (the intermediate item) was implemented as well as it should. For one, it was never connected to 's build path even on the PBE, so there was an issue where everyone buying it got stuck at a midway item, and then had to go through ER all over again to get it.
The other, bigger issue is that the item gave lifesteal on top of its mana sustain, when in my opinion it should have given cooldown reduction. Lifesteal and mana sustain on a cheap, mid-tier item means marksmen with this get infinite lane sustain, provided they play passively, which is the exact opposite of that it should be doing: Essence Reaver, and by extension Soul Sickle, are oriented towards aggressive AD champions who want to cast more spells. AD spellcasters also typically peak towards the mid-game, which is where an AD + CDR item would especially come in handy, and not a mana sustain + lifesteal item.
I'd really like to see Soul Sickle reimplemented with CDR instead of lifesteal on the PBE in the future, though I think Essence Reaver still needs a bit of a buff (its lifesteal is only half as good as the one on 
, and its mana sustain passive becomes irrelevant while BT's passive only scales up). Having ER's healing activate on spells (physical damage only, though) as well as basic attacks would make it much more palatable for AD casters.
FantasySniper3 votesI think that would solve a lot of problems. I didn't know that you couldn't even upgrade it, like what kind of drugs was rito on?
Although, please know that ER's mana-sustain is a trade-off for BT's safety, and it's completely intentional that it doesn't get as much LS so that it pushes a different form of safety.
Teridax682 votesI agree ER should never get as much lifesteal as BT, if only because BT is meant to be the autoattack-centric sustain item, but I do think it could instead benefit from spell-based sustain: currently, ER trades off 10% lifesteal and up to 350 bonus health for 10% CDR, autoattack-based mana sustain and a cheaper recipe. The cooldown reduction is perfect, because any mana-based AD caster should be wanting to pick this item up, but the mana on-hit just doesn't make that much of an impact late game, and Essence Reaver's drastically inferior sustain to BT means even AD casters would prefer the latter just because of the massive lifesteal it grants. Giving ER some kind of physical vamp (as with 
), while perhaps also increasing its recipe cost, would establish a clear difference between the two items: BT would be the safer, more passive and autoattack-centric sustain item (which would still ultimately provide greater sustain to autoattack-focused champions), whereas Essence Reaver would be the more aggressive, spell-oriented option.
FantasySniper2 votesWell, it'll be hard to control dual-method dual-sustain prowess, but it's at least worth a try.
Worst that'll happen is ER makes Lucian a sustain tank and pyhsical-spell-vamp gets scrapped or replaced with just mana-conversion for all physical damage.
Teridax682 votesLucian is actually one of the lesser offenders, I think: his only ways of dealing spell-based physical damage are his Q and his ultimate. His Q could potentially give mini-bursts of healing, and his ult might give a lot more healing from a distance, but both are sort of manageable (he misses out on a lot of sustain due to sub-par autoattack-based sustain, and due to his ult replacing his autoattacks while still only focusing on one target at a time). I'd be more worried about champions with heavy AoE such as 
, 
or even (her Ricochet can hit a lot of people), all of whom would risk getting big bursts of sustain. In the simplest version, the physical vamp could apply to all units (ehhhhh...), but the more conservative option would be to have the spell-based sustain only work upon damaging champions. You could still get bursty healing in teamfights (which might not even be a bad thing), but you wouldn't be able to abuse AoE physical damage in lane to heal up excessively, or accidentally get more healing than intended just because you caught minions in the path of your AoE while fighting a champion.
Fun fact: with this kind of sustain , the caster marksman, would be completely unaffected, due to his only physical damage-dealing spell (his Q) also applying on-hit effects, and therefore lifesteal. An easier build path would likely make ER more palatable for him, but otherwise he wouldn't benefit at all from any potential physical vamp.
5G8Nri0B541 votesUnderstandable since it would make
Not even close. The negative feedback comes from how inefficient the item was as far as slot went. It had nothing to build into despite there being Essence Reaver...
The5lacker3 votesThey could just make it build out of Forbidden Idol.
I mean, mana sustain and CDR. What's the problem?
+ 
+ 
=
Ta dah!
LSA2 votesThey're more focused on making this game worse than it was last season
darkdill2 votesSure seems that way. =_=
King Mandoo3 votes{quoted} They're more focused on making this game worse than it was last season
Not true... it's the new season... and it's only preseason. Wait a while.
AwsmDevil2 votesIt would be a nice item to have. It'd make slightly less of a noob-trap. And lord knows inexperienced players would love the hell out of it.
ImHerVoice2 votesinfinite mana jayce/lucian oh sounds nice. let me just slit my throat for you, oh no? Thats quiet alright, I've got this.
darkdill2 votesAnd if this half-way item cost as much as a Bilgewater Cutlass or BFS? What if you bought a BFS instead? You'd overpower that Lucian in raw AD.
Ariel the Cruel1 votesJust suck it up and buy tear. It give plenty of damage. ADC's having mana. Who ever heard such a farse!?
OblongOtter14 votes"buy tear" "it give plenty of damage." Sivir confirmed to be Ryze.
vscAloha2 votes.> Quit nitpicking, jerk. "...it [will] give plenty of damage [once you upgrade it at max stacks]."
OblongOtter1 votesYeah but that's the pickaxe part.
vscAloha1 votesand the passive part. The passive gives more damage than a bf sword, on top of the stated ad stat of Muramana.
Icy Witch1 votesI agree something has to be done. As a Sivir player myself, I've been praying or this Essence Reaver fix. Plz Rito.
Kingsgrave1 votesThey realized that no ADC would build it, stuff like Pantheon/Talon would
darkdill2 votesNot even a CDR Sivir?
Kingsgrave1 votes{quoted} Not even a CDR Sivir?
Honestly even if it gave mana regen, if it gave me AD/CDR/LS I would build it on literally every non tank AD Caster even if they were manaless. Those stats together are much too powerful. If that becomes a thing, which I dont doubt that it would, it would hurt the carries more than it would help them. AD Casters that arent Ranged are usually gated by mana at all points in the game, ADCs almost never are past a certain point. It wouldnt help them as much as you think it would.
Besides, if you make that item it will become a must buy on literally any AD Caster, carry or otherwise. Sivir/Lucian/Varus etc., Those who can't use it that well would simply not be played. Stuff like Corki now has no mana issues at all. It becomes mostly problematic. Hell, I could rush it on lane Pantheon and remove all of my mana issues. I could build it on fast and efficiently on Ezreal and get mana back constantly on my Qs.
Its a good concept but it cant be executed well without becoming a "Bloodthirster 3.0"
darkdill1 votesSo the problem is that if Soul Sickle were ever made, it'd be abusive? Then Soul Sickle should have no lifesteal on it.
There, disadvantage in opportunity cost compared to a Bilgewater Cutlass, which gives 8% LS, or BFS which would give better raw AD.
One thing people fail to think about is opportunity cost: what you forgo in order to get something of equal cost. Early on, you can't get both BWC, BFS, and Soul Sickle at the same time, so you gotta make a choice. And you don't entirely know if that choice might backfire on you.
Kingsgrave1 votes{quoted} So the problem is that if Soul Sickle were ever made, it'd be abusive? Then Soul Sickle should have no lifesteal on it.
There, disadvantage in opportunity cost compared to a Bilgewater Cutlass, which gives 8% LS, or BFS which would give better raw AD.
One thing people fail to think about is opportunity cost: what you forgo in order to get something. Early on, you can't get both BWC, BFS, and Soul Sickle at the same time, so you gotta make a choice. And you don't entirely know if that choice might backfire on you.
Yeah, for it to be a Ranged centric item it needs a really disadvantageous build path. Most Carries complete their build paths a lot faster than Melees do, which is why Tiamat is such a good item and builds into Raveous. Melees need a big piece before completing the whole piece.
Good idea though.
TheRainInSpain1 votesSivir, Miss Fortune, Jayce, Graves, Blue Ezreal, Urgot, Corki, AD Azir, Quinn, Varus, Support Ashe.
Sivir is pretty lackluster for an ADC. MF cannot escape without Flash. Jayce typically isn't regarded as an ADC. Graves is rarely seen. Blue Ezreal got nerfed. Urgot is actually a ranged Bruiser. Corki builds Trinity Force instead. Azir is a Marksman, not an ADC. Quinn is in the same position as Graves. Varus? Who's Varus? Wait, Support Ashe?
Linna Excel1 votesMy best guess is it was either broken somehow (miss fortune rushing the mana item) or riot chickened out because they want the passive to be useless by the time you get it. Mana is supposed to gate your early game and most of the time, by the time you can complete your first big item, it's getting towards midgame.
darkdill2 votesUnfortunately, mana costs are now still heavy in midgame unlike in S4 when they were an afterthought due to Riot cutting all sources of mana regen basically in half (until late-game).
Nowadays as Lux, even with a Grail I have frequent burnouts. The Chalice regen effect only works well if you have over 1.5k max mana.
Linna Excel1 votesRight. I agree that Athene's needed to be a little less ubiquitious, but riot decided to overkill that particular item as they didn't want it to be the only thing people bought for mana. I'm not 100% sure, but I think they want people to get either morellonomicon or seraphs staff as well.
darkdill1 votesI'd be okay with Athene's right now if it had better + base % mana regen. Maybe +100% base mana regen instead of +50%.
Grail clearly is in a bad state if the pros are just opting for double Morello's.
Gunpoint1 votesI like Essence Reaver on Varus! :P
Wînter Fox1 votesI was just about to make this thread before I found it buried here. I want to be able to play Jayce without buying Manamune, Rito pls