Patch 5.15 - Teemo Nerfs, Not Buffs

HIKASHIKUN··73 votes·22,093 views

Hey! I like you. Name's Hikashikun, a Teemo main all the way from Season 2 and I'm here to explain to you nice folks why these new patch 5.15 changes are a nerf to Teemo overall gameplay and potential but before that, here's a little background info on who I am and why I have some authority over the subject on Teemo.

Achievements

  • Season 2: Gold (Teemo Anywhere)

  • Season 3: Diamond I (80% Teemo Top, 20% Teemo Jungle)

  • Season 4: Masters (90% Teemo Jungle, 10% Teemo Elsewhere)

  • Season 5: Diamond II on HIKASHIKUN & HIKASHLKUN (90% Teemo Jungle, 10% Teemo Elsewhere)

Teemo Guides

Na.Op.GG

Patch 5.15 Nerfs

  1. (R) Noxious Trap duration reduced to 5 minutes from 10 minutes.
  2. (R) Noxious Trap takes 1.5 seconds to arm from 1.0 seconds.
  3. (Q) Blinding Dart doesn't always work on the first auto as it used to anymore. *This could be an unintentional bug

Patch 5.15 Buffs

  1. Passive (Camouflage): Scaling Attack Speed bonus, 1.5 seconds to stealth from 2.0 seconds, 0.75 seconds to stealth while in brush, and moving inside brush while Camouflaged no longer breaks stealth.
  2. You can now toss (R) Noxious Trap. The range scales with rank and can bounce off each other.

Teemo's Usual Gameplay

  1. Use (R) Noxious Trap to protect objectives such as Baron and Dragon.
  2. Chain (R) Noxious Trap in rows to develop a connected array of vision pockets.
  3. Place (R) Noxious down in lane to prevent buildup of minions from pushing to your tower(s).
  4. Place mushrooms right before enemy split pushers who are unaware of both you and your ultimate. When (R) Noxious Trap activates upon enemy champion, emerge from Passive Camouflage and attack - "Enemy has been slain".
  5. When close enough to walls, you can place your (R) Noxious Trap over these obstacles (Baron pit, Dragon pit, Base walls, etc).

Teemo's Intended Patch 5.15 Gameplay

  1. Hold onto 3 stacks of (R) Noxious Trap to later throw at enemies in team fights. Note, when thrown the ultimate does not immediately go off as it takes 1.5 seconds to activate when on the ground.
  2. Throw mushrooms into Baron and Dragon pits.
  3. Sit in brush and ambush enemies or evade ganks with the new passive.

The Problem

  1. Team fights don't happen in just one spot, it's volatile, always changing depending on the situation. Throwing the mushrooms into enemies doesn't seem as viable as it sounds when it takes an extra 1.5 seconds to even do anything. They could either (A) Run Away within the 1.5 seconds, (B) Destroy the mushroom before it activates, (C) Drop Pink Wards to help identify and eliminate them, or (D) Let lane minions activate them.
  2. While Teemo is too busy throwing his (R) Noxious Trap, couldn't he be doing more for his team by attacking the enemies during all this time instead of waiting for the ultimate to work?
  3. It's such a terrible idea to hold onto three stacks of (R) Noxious Trap when you can prepare them before major fights in desired spots while armed and ready, while developing more mushrooms over time. Overall, these new changes are significantly reducing the amount of (R) Noxious Traps on the ground while removing one of Teemo's main contributions to his team; vision control. Someone once said,"What's the point of mushrooms if they don't even hit anyone?". Well the counter argument to that comment is that despite (R) Noxious Trap not activating, they still serve their purpose for vision, alerting the team where enemies are most likely to be and where they are not, saving resources such as Wards, Gold, and Time.
  4. How often do you actually utilize the brush for anything? Why would I be wasting time sitting (or moving) in a brush when I can be out there with my team, getting kills and objectives?

Seriously

  1. If these changes were made to be buffs as Riot made them to be, why would we Teemo mains be complaining and generating as much attention as possible? Why not just keep silent and abuse these "buffs" ?
  2. You just cut Teemo's ultimate duration in HALF. How many (R) Noxious Traps do you are now available to support Teemo's Gameplay to be healthy or even viable?
  3. What different type of gameplay are you trying to make all of us Teemo mains out there learn?
  4. I have yet to come across any Teemo mains who agrees that these changes are indeed buffs. If anything, they're gimmicky. Yes, sorry but to the tune of easily over 2,000 Teemo games across all of my accounts in both ranked and normals, these changes are gimmicks.

157 Comments

Peel Your ADC49 votes

At least he wasn't Fiora

HIKASHIKUN14 votes

Relevant username and comment. Everything checks out - take my upvote. RIP FIORA 2015!!

LordExtremLord6 votes

She is really strong right now , cant see your problem . Oh I understand now , you enjoy playing faceroll champs .... If you are diamond , then you should now that she is awesome now . Stop crying about buffs

mk DILLY6 votes

This is just plain incorrect. Her kit is fun, but universally acknowledged as under tuned right now. Her win rate is abysmal, much worse than other new champs and reworks. Riot themselves made a post about their data shows she is way under tuned and have a bunch of buffs coming for her.

PedroBinGonzales6 votes

[{quoted}](name=mk DILLY,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GvOfHdab,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2015-08-10T01:47:34.499+0000)

This is just plain incorrect. Her kit is fun, but universally acknowledged as under tuned right now. Her win rate is abysmal, much worse than other new champs and reworks. Riot themselves made a post about their data shows she is way under tuned and have a bunch of buffs coming for her.

i think the term is healthier, no one wanted to play against old fiora, specially if she snowballed

Prospector Pete46 votes

Tossing mushrooms is cool, but I don't want it if it causes his mushrooms to last half as long.

HIKASHIKUN17 votes

This is literally what I've been saying to myself everyday since the patch so far.

MaIïk3 votes

I don't even need the passive buff and the bouncing thingy... at least put the mushrooms duration scalling like (5/7,5/10 mins) and please **put back the arm time to 1 sec. ** And by the way fix that blind bugg

A Miss Fortune27 votes

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Teemo can't be viable because his kit is way too toxic. Riot most likely wants to desperately rework him with a full gameplay rework, but they can't because his playerbase is too big and they would go nuts if he was reworked.

Riot wants Teemo to be playable, but no where near a top pick. His kit is too toxic and he just makes the game so unfun to play. This was a nerf, but they also gave some interesting features to Teemo.

I think Stonewall mentioned this a few times, that Teemo wouldn't ever be reworked in the future because of how large his fan base is but he won't ever be buffed because of how toxic is kit is.

Zenthon Prime14 votes

Why is this getting downvoted? It's true.

The loving hate of Teemo we have today started out as a very real hatred of the champion, and for good reason. He's a very low-counterplay ranged lane bully top laner (jungle isn't as bad but we have to take top into account), and if anyone remembers his shrooms used to chunk you for massive amounts of damage. These nerfs (especially shroom duration) actually are a good thing in making him balanceable, or at least they would be if Riot had sufficiently buffed him to make up for it.

A Miss Fortune13 votes

Teemo is toxic because his shrooms basically mean that if you don't spam sweepers and pinks you're just going to walk in a field of shrooms that blow you up. It's not overpowered, but very counterfun.

He's also toxic because if you're an auto attack based champion (with the only exception being Azir I think) you're just not going to fight him. He's going to blind you, sit there, and spam his poison on you. His blind dart or poison is by no means overpowered, but again very counterfun.

People hate Teemo because he's just not fun to play against and he's a very basic champion with almost nothing in his kit besides objective control with his shrooms, and his lane bullying against AD champions. Aside from that he's rather useless and people also hate him because of how useless he is but he won't be reworked.

Poske7 votes

People hate teemo because they are shallow and they want to be cool

No one actually thinks teemo lacks counterplay or doesnt have fun playing against teemo

WolfBV8 votes

I think Stonewall mentioned this a few times, that Teemo wouldn't ever be reworked in the future because of how large his fan base is but he won't ever be buffed because of how toxic is kit is.

So It's definitely a nerf then.

RocketRelm3 votes

I was going to make a comment pointing to this fact, that Teemo's kit as it is currently is too toxic to work. Though I just had an idea spawn, what if Teemo Shrooms were revealed by ALL wards? Not just sight wards, but vision wards too for just teem shrooms? It'd allow the old style of pink counter play to teemo, which would allow for actual shroom clearing/checking to some degree without masse sweepers.

With that change in mind, maybe that would allow him to keep his play style, but allow sufficient counter play to allow him more interesting/power on the rest of his kit.

Demonology3 votes

I honestly never really understand why the traps are invisible in the first place - this seems to be where most of the problems with his kit come, especially since the removal of oracle's. I mean riot even had to add specific items to Twisted Treeline/ARAM just to deal with this.

Now hear me out, what if they weren't invisible? Sure, that sounds awful, but realistically:

People are still going to step on them if you are smart in their placement. Put them in a bushes, and chances are unless they have time to ward it and stop, they're going to step on it. Even out in the open, players will still run into them in most games, because stopping to clear them might not be a reasonable alternative to just running over them.

This would also allow them to put more power back into them, and into Teemo's kit in general. The mushrooms could last longer as well.

Maitre Gonzo2 votes

Spoken like someone who hasn't been playing Teemo once in his life.

It's hard enough as it is to have people actually step on shrooms at the right time (and not randomly), unless you dropped them pointblank on them (not after the arming time nerfs, mind you). The hitbox is abysmal, even in tiny chokepoints like river to Blue.

Make them not invisible ? People are already pretty good at avoiding mobile skillshots (outside of bronze / silver that's it), and you want to make it an immobile one ?

How many people would step on Caitlyn's / Nidalee's Traps if you couldn't insta drop them and also destroy them with auto-attacks ?

Let's not forget it's an ultimate and not a random ability.

it would be as stupid as making Shaco's Boxes perma-visible. But actually, if Teemo shroom's were Shaco Boxes, I would be fine with that, cause they are damn useless after the last patch.

Javazon7 votes

If teemo is toxic, so is gnar. Same abusive laning phase but gnar also has the edge of being able to turn into a huge stat ball with CC and tankyness. Is it any wonder Gnar is a top tier toplane pick.

But I'm not sure I can argue viablity over someone who thinks blind is toxic, it's not like qss exists at all. If Tyrndamere mains start catching on in the toplane and buying qss. I'm not sure anyone could play that lane out much anymore. Really though you should try to play the champion before you comment on Teemo, get some of your own opinions instead of stonewall and his clickbait videos opinions.

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

Gnar also gets to build nothing but tank items and still output the most damage on his team nest to the ADC, meanwhile Teemo has to build damage to do damage and has to deal with dying instantly if he gets caught out.

Luph22 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GvOfHdab,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-08-09T20:52:41.050+0000)

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Teemo can't be viable because his kit is way too toxic. Riot most likely wants to desperately rework him with a full gameplay rework, but they can't because his playerbase is too big and they would go nuts if he was reworked.

Riot wants Teemo to be playable, but no where near a top pick. His kit is too toxic and he just makes the game so unfun to play. This was a nerf, but they also gave some interesting features to Teemo.

I think Stonewall mentioned this a few times, that Teemo wouldn't ever be reworked in the future because of how large his fan base is but he won't ever be buffed because of how toxic is kit is.

I never understand when people make claims like these. What is more toxic about Teemo's kit than Nidalee, Soraka, or any other champion people find frustrating to play against? Every champion is going to have something that other players find annoying. That's the nature of a competitive game. Teemo had a fair win rate before the most recent patch (it's dropped 6% since then). He wasn't dominating solo queue, but he still carved out a decent niche for players like myself who enjoy playing him.

Michikun5 votes

Something's wrong, I can't upvote this guy's comment more than once.

BlazeBlaster4 votes

You literally pick the two champions that have already been reworked due to how toxic their kits are

Try RC Cola1 votes

It is actually toxic in the most literal sense, none of those other champs use poison.

Michikun4 votes

Don't forget about Twitch,Singed, Cassiopeia, and the old Gangplank passive :(

MadDoughnutz3 votes

'Toxic' in Riotspeak generally means champions or abilities that have low interaction; Namely, Point and click abilities, Press one button for free steroid with nothing else, and so on and so forth.

So, according to Riot, Irelia , Vladimir , Teemo, Poppy , Warwick . Veigar (Old Veigar, not new), Annie are all champions with toxic kits, because of low interaction abilities that don't really give any meaningful or fun counterplay, mainly through mechanical skill. A lot of these champions have kits that go 'Do I have enough stats to do this? if Yes, it happens, if no, then it doesn't happen.' regardless of aim, reaction times or enemy player mechanical skill.

Mindful, this doesn't exactly fit the community's version of the meaning toxic, but it's what it is according to Riot based on the gameplay aspect of the game, disregarding toxic in regards to actual players.

The Whamboozler7 votes

{quoted}

'Toxic' in Riotspeak generally means champions or abilities that have low interaction; Namely, Point and click abilities, Press one button for free steroid with nothing else, and so on and so forth.

So, according to Riot, Irelia , Vladimir , Teemo, Poppy , Warwick . Veigar (Old Veigar, not new), Annie are all champions with toxic kits, because of low interaction abilities that don't really give any meaningful or fun counterplay, mainly through mechanical skill. A lot of these champions have kits that go 'Do I have enough stats to do this? if Yes, it happens, if no, then it doesn't happen.' regardless of aim, reaction times or enemy player mechanical skill.

Mindful, this doesn't exactly fit the community's version of the meaning toxic, but it's what it is according to Riot based on the gameplay aspect of the game, disregarding toxic in regards to actual players.

And what happens when they've changed every champion's kit to get rid of "low interaction" abilities? Every champion will have their standard issue dash, steroid, % damage and execute? Down that road lies mediocrity for everyone but the top picks with the overloaded kits. I don't like WW, but he's popular because he can lock down hypermobile champs that are otherwise near-impossible to catch or hit with skillshots. You know skillshots? Those fair mechanics with plenty of counterplay?

It seems like riot is obsessed that every champion's enemies have "counterplay", a buzzword they made up. But that is WHY champions like the ones mentioned above are strong. They've given new champions more and more ways to counter older ones. Hypermobile carries like Kalista and Yasuo dodge every skillshot you throw at them. Heck, Yasuo has more ways to counter the enemy built into his kit than ways to affect them. His dash counters skillshots and slows, his wall counters nearly everything that isn't a melee attack and his shield counters poke by giving him extra health. How is that not "poor counterplay"? He gets free health and free crit WITHOUT even having to push a button. I guess he's fair because his ult only works if you're knocked up... something more and more and more champions in the game have. Several of them on point and click abilities.

Point and click abilities are NOT toxic to the game if the game is balanced around them. Point and click abilities should be weaker than skillshots because there is no risk in them. Short ranged abilities can afford to be stronger since the risk involved in them is having to get that close to longer-ranged skillshot champs. Mobile champions should not really have point-and-click abilities unless those abilties are very weak, since that lowers the risk and difficulty of getting in close to your target. For instance, I would say Vi has a poor set up, balance wise. She has a dash and a targeted lockdown ability and she does very good damage with her ult and in general. She tank- shreds pretty well, she bursts very well, she can get very tanky, and she can't be evaded once she's pressed R. Being able handle and do nearly everything doesn't make her balanced, it makes her overtuned, where now there is very little counterplay AGAINST her.

Annie however, is NOT unbalanced. Oh sure, she's annoying. If you're not playing a long-ranged midlaner you're gonna have a hard time. But she is picked because she's got no risk of failure in her skills... something that is becoming more and more needed with each new hyper mobile champ released onto the rift. People not long ago were complaining about "mobility creep" and how poorly it was affecting the game. Well, champions like Annie are the answer... and now people want them nerfed because she prevents zed from 100-0'ing her under tower and pressing R again to fly back to safety? Annie is NOT that hard to deal with. Play passively unless you outrange her, and have someone tanky who can initiate onto her and eat her stun. If you go at her with 5 squishy champs that will die instantly to Tibbers, you deserve what you get.

Kuroi865 votes

A combination of a blind and a heavy Dot means laning against him is aggravating, his ult means that after a certain point you're simply going to keep on running into shrooms. It's frustrating and it's unfun. Most other "Unfun" champs are simply unfun to play against when they snowball, Teemo is simply frustrating. He needs a massive kit overhaul, something along the lines of GP or Sion, the problem is he's so iconic that Riot is hesitant to do it and is simply leaving so many glaring flaws in his kit and playstyle because it's the only way to keep him in check. Heck, imagine how much of a pain in the butt Teemo would be if all the issues in his kit were fixed.

chide da jungler10 votes

There is nothing wrong with teemo's old play-style. There is a lot of ways to counter his shrooms. I guess in low-elo no one uses their brain and sweeps, but in higher elo it can be a challenge to maintain that map pressure due to skilled supports. You get some tanky Alistar or Nautilus and they just tromp around your mushroom field any time past 15 minutes and clear it by themselves.

If you want to take away from R, then that power has to go somewhere else. Right now, it has just disappeared.

LemurMonster7 votes

Sadly the longer arm time of the Shrooms got me killed in one game & dont like the fact to Yasuo wind wall can now stop a shroom from being placed. Last, shrooms lasting half as long really hit teemos late game to hard, more than they think.

junglerboy167 votes

It's a nerf in that his old shroom field tactics are a lot less reliable (basically what used to make Teemo so aggravating isn't quite so aggravating anymore) but it should be a buff to him as a more standard mage in that he can use shrooms for offensive damage much more reactively. the only reason that isn't really working is the increased arm duration. they should have reduced the arm duration instead of increasing it, so that you could use shrooms effectively in the midst of combat.

The changes should have been a nerf to his more annoying patterns and a buff to a healthier pattern involving more direct player to player interactions, but they added in extra nerfs that make it boil down to an all around nerf while reducing his annoying factor a touch.

Poske7 votes

Shrooms back to 10 or RIOT! Completly agree with you buddy

I used to play him mid So I could put shrooms on important places but I just realised its even easier i you jungle however doesnt he clear to slow?

I am shocked you made jungle teemo work. Do you farm jungle with R or generaly avoid farming it with it?

dragonsbreathN76 votes

Season 5 will forever be know as the season of gimmicky reworks.

Zielmann2 votes

Teemo is just another in the list. The 'juggarnaut' changes planned to come out next are where the real gimmicks are. I'm surprised they didn't just go full-bore with the gimmicks and give Garen a portable brush ability...

FarRockBF6 votes

I made multiple threads about this already. But this one is

  1. Much more detailed and thought out
  2. Written by a pro

So good job sir, I hope they notice.

ManiacalCoin5 votes

Im another Teemo main and this is a nerf to everything . . . . but trolling

CasterGilgamesh5 votes

lol the hate on teemo like riven is getting pretty old i never truly saw a reason to nerf him they could have just reduced his blind duration at lower levels but increase it at higher levels teemo almost completely doesn't matter in a team fight riot needs to revert the nerfs on his shrooms and just shift it to the rest his kit his whole thing was to be a shrom placer that's why he has no team fight he gave up his ult for map control he needs those shrooms to be strong

Slaxer5 votes

It's a nerf, but I am still gonna main Teemo because he is still my favorite champion.

MaIïk5 votes

I have no doubts that this change, to our Stealth Scout, was a Nerf. On my opinion (a Platinum V player on EUW server), you can win games by a nice vision control, pressure on every lane and a good objective control. As Teemo, you provide to your team both vision control and objective control by placing strategically your mushrooms (R) at choke points.

Updates: Passive:

  • Time needed in order to get stealth while standing still: 2 -> 1,5 secs . If in a bush you only need 0,75 sec to activate Camuflage. Your Passive's stealth doesn't end while you walk inside the bush.
  • You gain a slightly increased bonus of attack speed after breaking passive's stealth (by moving out of a bush or attacking).

Ultimate (R):

  • Now you can Toss out your mushrooms instead of placing them. If the mushroom hits another mushroom it will bounce and travel further.
  • Time needed to arm the mushrooms: 1 -> 1,5 secs
  • Duration of Teemo's mushrooms: 10 -> 5 mins

Lets start over those small improvements (buffs): . A slightly bonus on the attack speed after you break out of stealth: When do you utilize this spell? Ohh yeah, right, mostly during the laning phase (from lvl 1 to 11-13). Basically this is a pointless change (on my eyes a minor nerf). (Old lvl 1 attack speed bonus: +40% ; New lvl 1 attack speed bonus: +20%), (Old lvl 5 attack speed bonus: +40%; New lvl 5 attack speed bonus: +40%) and (Old lvl 10 attack speed bonus: +40% ; New lvl 10 attack speed bonus: +60%). . A nice Camuflage buff was the time that you need to wait until you get stealthed ( - 0,5 secs out of a bush; - 1,25 secs in a bush). . A kinda of a overpowered buff was that now you can move inside of a bush with out breaking the stealth that your passive provides, that was not needed. . Tossing out your mushrooms its a quite big buff since now you don't need to face check to place down your mushrooms.

Now lets see the nerfs: . The time reduction of the mushrooms its insane. You basically are cutting down HALF of the time. . It seems pointless on paper but during the game an extra 0,5 secs matter alot...

My suggestions on how to make this changes look better: Passive:

  • Time needed in order to get stealth while standing still: 2 -> 1,5 secs . If in a bush you only need 0,75 sec to activate Camuflage.
  • You gain a slightly increased bonus of attack speed after breaking passive's stealth (by moving or attacking).
  • You can no longer move inside of the bush with out breaking the stealth off.

Ultimate (R):

  • You Toss a mushroom at the target location (300/600/900).
  • Your mushrooms have a duration of (5/7,5/10)mins.
  • Your mushrooms takes 1 sec to get armed.
  • Your mushrooms can no longer bounce on top of the other ones.

Ps: If you can like this changes put a like so Riot guys can see this. Teemo

Troll for Trump4 votes

As someone who used to play teemo to be a total dck with him, I am appaled by these teemo changes. And wtf riot, no satan teemo skin? No evil teemo taunt? At least give teemo a better spam taunt(like zed's or nami's)

daggers of denak4 votes

This patch nerfed probably his biggest contribution to the team, his shrooms, controlling the map with his shrooms should be his niche as he isn't that strong in any other area. Though changing his passive was a step in the right direction. I'm not sure why Teemo has a reputation as a top lane terror, he is short ranged (compared to other range champs) and he Is so squishy, any champion with an actual ability hits him once and he can no longer trade with them (even in favoured matchups).

Imo he needs a way for his toxic shot to do more damage late game, so he doesn't rely on nashors tooth and his shrooms as his main source of damage at that point.

Sasogwa4 votes

I don't understand why once again Riot feels the need for 'compensation' and divides the duration of shrooms by 2. NO... just... no...

THEMIGHTYPANDA4 votes

I main teemo a lot and now that my shrooms last half as long its harder for me to set traps for team fights because in the time it takes me to get 8 shrooms out for traps most of them are almost out of time when i used to be able to set a 15-20 shroom traps

Yoella3 votes

Honestly I can live with the halved shroom duration, it hurts but I can see why it's there. Personally i wish it scaled with rank 5/7.5/10 minutes, but that's beside the point.

It's the increased arm time that's really bugging me. 1.5 seconds is way too long, especially if you're going to be throwing shrooms directly into the enemy team. I don't much care if my arm time is 1.5 or even 2.5 seconds when I'm just warding objectives or placing strategic mines, but when I throw a shroom directly on top of somebody it needs to be ready to go off in no more than a second.

Chespin20133 votes

Totally agreed this is a huge nerf for teemos ability to control the map and help with objective control. Now they nerfed his shrooms for a stupid gimmick that no one asked for. IMO they should just get rid of the changes done to his ult and put back what was before. Teemo as he is right now is near kassadin levels of strength. Whats so sad that Riot won't admit they are wrong about the Teemo changes.

FistOfSharkiesha3 votes

He loses his enormous map control and basically becomes and extremely weak Kayle with this patch. Seriously think about it. He's an AP marksman that can throw slowing shrooms like Kayle's Q and that's about it. He doesn't get her invulnerability or heal (which also gives her the MS boost) or insane dueling power.

The board presence was the only reason to use Teemo besides counterpicking Garen or Darius. Now he transitions into a terrible lategame that an increased shroom range won't help.

Ch0c0lateJesus3 votes

Literally the only thing that made Teemo potentially useful on a team was the map control offered with his shrooms. Without that he's just a massively squishy short range assassin that is guaranteed to get blown up if he shows his face in a teamfight.

For Carthage3 votes

Oh yeah, from the moment that I saw the patch changes, I was like, "Oh hey, that could be cool."

And then I scrolled to the nerfs on nerfs on nerfs and all the strings attached to the interesting new gameplay and I immediately thought, "This is... not worth it at all."

Sozan52 votes

Hm, in this topic I see so many "toxic kit" comments. Practically all of them use "lacks mechanical counterplay" argument - which is true. There is not much you can do mechanically to avoid damage from Teemo. That's where other forms of counterplay come into place, and Teemo have tons of it (Strategical counters and counterbuilding).

First of all, you know he can blind you (usually once, unless the fight is long), so you have to play around that, and there are multiple ways to do that. The best way, available to most champions in the League is to hold your abilities until he blinds you. Your abilities cannot be blinded (with few exceptions) and it's the best way of dealing damage during that time. Also, don't attack him while you are blinded, as this have no positive effect at all, while having few negative ones (mostly - your attack when blind ends will be delayed (this is especially vital for champs with low AS) and you are losing distance while attacking (even with cancelling the AA animation you still have to stop for a bit)).

As far as counterbuilding goes, it's pretty straightforward - build Banshee's Veil, Quicksilver Sash or Mikael's Crucible to completely negate the effect or Mercury Threads/Zephyr to mitigate it. Each of these items except Zephyr also grants MR, which is helpful against Teemo.

Another strategical counter to him (mostly for laning phase) is to hide in bushes. Pre-6 Teemo is unable to attack you at all in bushes - and top lane (which is where Teemo is at his strongest) have 3 of them (so it's gonna be hard for him to ward them). Post-6 bushes might be shroomed, so extra caution is advised.

When going through lane, follow your minions pathing - this will ensure that any shrooms in the way will be tanked by minions.

Post-6 you should use lens trinket (possibly getting it on the first/second back) before jumping on Teemo (or while chasing him) - as this will reveal and disable the traps for 6 seconds. This means you don't actually have to break them, you can run through them, or burst Teemo inside of them (this is a big one - I don't know how many times I've seen players to lens my mushrooms just to go around them or try to destroy them, while they could easily kill me).

Another viable strategy is to burst him down. This is true at all stages of the game, as Teemo builds usually are offensive (so no tankiness late game) and his early stats are just crap (they are okay in late game tho).

In teamfights Teemo isn't a big threat so you can dispose of him easily if he tries to do something and ignore him if he doesn't. If enemies start to retreat, don't forget to use Lenses.

For objectives you want to take, it's advised to place a pink ward around, so you can clear up the mushrooms and wards alike.

Anyway, there are many more ways to counter Teemo, but I don't feel like listing all of them (especially since I play him from time to time, and I would hate to be countered in every possible way).

TL;DR: Teemo is not countered by quick reflexes - he is instead countered by strategic thinking and optimal use of available tools.

LethalShadow2 votes

Without question it is a nerf.

It's hilarious how Teemo is treated like he is the embodiment of all that is wrong with LoL. Looking at how people talk and react about Teemo, you would think he's this incredibly overpowered hypercarry that you can't counter in any way. That includes the way Riot has been treating him. Nerf after nerf and without redistributing the power anywhere. The one buff he had gotten was making Toxic Shot slightly stronger. He's just been getting flat nerfs until this last change which isn't a flat numbers nerf but STILL an effective nerf, with an absurdly bad redistribution of power (new passive, new gimmick).

Most recent nerfs: "Noxious Trap: ABILITY POWER RATIO: 0.8 ⇒ 0.5" "Toxic Shot: Ability Power ratio on impact reduced to 0.3 from 0.4" "Noxious Trap: Damage reduced at later ranks to 200/325/450 from 200/400/600"

That is a HUGE amount of power taken right out of the champion. And that wasn't even the first time Mushrooms got nerfed.

2011:"Noxious Trap: Mushroom reload time increased to 35/31/27 from 30/26/22 Damage reduced to 200/400/600 from 250/475/700"

You see this and it makes it seem like Teemo was putting entire teams on his back and effortlessly winning games with no way to stop him. I love playing as Teemo, but I've also fought him many times over the years and never failed to shut him down. There are so many ways to deal with him: Magic Resist. Heals. Sweepers. Pink wards. Banshee's Veil. Repeat ganks (1 pink ward can negate his minefield in top lane, and he's ridiculously easy to gank then). In fact, Specter's Cowl is so incredibly powerful against Teemo it's not even funny. To the point where I often just buy that item and don't upgrade it while I go back to my normal build and from there on it's smooth sailing.

So yeah, I wish the community would stop acting like he's cancer, and I wish Riot would stop nerfing him even further out of viability. Releasing these changes and having the balls to call it a buff, is just plain rude. (P.S: 1.5s arm time on shrooms makes the bounce gimmick completely fail its intended effect.)

PotatoTroll2 votes

First nerf to shroom damage and now this crap? You can bounce the shroom !! And for that crap we got mushroom time cut in half ? really ? Give us back the mushrooms, we may be playing Teemo, but we are not little kids who want to see bouncing stuff. buff to Passive ? Really, how many times do you use that useless thing in game ? Like 1 time at most ? It can be good to clear jungle camps, but other than that who cares, instead of going invisible and hope for someone to come, better go farm or something.

Definitely a big nerf.

VlKT0R1 votes

what about playing teemo as a backline damage dealer disengage master? like throwing mushrooms behind you instead of the enemy, kiting them during their engage or making it futile

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