Me: Looks up Malphite on op.gg 47% winrate. Core items, Armor items.
Hashinshin: Why is Protobelt 2500g!?!? That item is too strong.
Me: Looks up at Magic resist items
2800g
450 HP
55 Magic Resist
100% Hp regen
10% CDR
Unique Passive: Increase by 30% all healing receive.
Practically built on every single bruiser in the game, synergize super well with death dance, warmogs and any regen passive.
The thigh guy44 votesHashinshin is also an idiot who thinks the only class that should be playable in this game is bruisers sooo
After3perma27 votesHashinshin: Bruisers are so weak and useless.
Also Hashinshin: Irelia and Riven are broken champions.
Asud2 votesHashinshin: Bruisers are so weak and useless.
Also Hashinshin: Irelia and Riven are broken champions.
2 or 3 champs do not represent the entire class. Pyke is viable also but the assassins are shit overall. While i could make an argument that mages are shit becasue my main Syndra sucks and swallows but its not like that, mages are actually strong but Syndra is shit and she does not represent the entire class.
BLIGHTBRINGER1 votesDon't let Critmaster Garen or Moody P see you say that o.ò
The thigh guy2 votes[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GuAdjnLO,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2019-06-18T17:30:52.521+0000)
Don't let Critmaster Garen or Moody P see you say that o.ò
I butt heads with those two constantly. XD
Luther King Jr V22 votesi see it as the opposite i love when i stack armor and get melted by enemy zed/adc's anyway
AirKingNeo3 voteszed doesn't melt you
PB4UAME10 votesGood joke.
T2K Baka5 votesi mean its not a joke he doesn't melt u.
He deletes u
WeaselRune2 votesI always thought of it more like "popping" like a balloon. You even get a popping sound effect when his ult time is up... and... then you pop.
And just like a balloon... all your insides shoot out through the hole that was made.
Moody P19 votesMages: dominant in 3 lanes. Maybe he has a point.
taleofsonata12 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GuAdjnLO,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-17T15:14:33.966+0000)
Mages: dominant in 3 lanes. Maybe he has a point.
Bruiser dominant in 3 lanes too, Top Mid Jungle and maybe ADC times to times.
Camille can jungle, go mid, go top same goes to riven.
Moody P15 votesnobody defends these champions, unlike mages
taleofsonata6 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GuAdjnLO,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-06-17T15:35:12.041+0000)
nobody defends these champions, unlike mages
Yea so they can boost themself in rank by spamming it, mages always have to change champions everytime. Meanwhile DURR DURR DURR match history Camille, Camille, Irelia, Camille, Irelia, Irelia.
FSRER6 votesAnd everyone alongside toplane mains, despites those champions and begs riot to nerf them
taleofsonata2 votesAnd everyone alongside toplane mains, despites those champions and begs riot to nerf them
Top laners will complain about anything thats ranged and that they have a hard time getting close to.
Anu3isII5 votesI think he talked about Camille and Irelia in particular, not Mages. The point is that everyone hates those two, even Top Laners.
wolvius3 votesYea so they can boost themself in rank by spamming it, mages always have to change champions everytime. Meanwhile DURR DURR DURR match history Camille, Camille, Irelia, Camille, Irelia, Irelia.
What happened to kled, olaf, hecarim oh yeah two got shafted by conqueror changes (nerfs and rework) and the horse was forced back to jungle, mage players aren't the only people that have to adapt.
And toplaners have to adapt to new "additions" to the lane like tahm, top is the most changeable lane in league for better but most often worse. Why else would tanks, bruisers, mages, jayce and quinn (not sure she more assassin or adc), this thing 
and reject supports
What does mid have; mages+their subclasses, assassins and the rare bruiser. Ohh maybe lucian if hes buffed for skin release.
Another post
######to avoid more notifications
True, but the thing is why bruisers don't complain about AD assassins? Because they get in range and dies to bruisers. The only AD assassins that doesn't get in range and does well vs them most of the time are????
You guess it,
Well its always fun playing against a ranged lanebully that outscales, that you can't reach and if you do your probably already near death 
when 
top, 
(well with the amount of versions there have been I don't know if he outscales most bruisers) and now 
top (mostly tank build?) 
when hes good because good means why pick any other bruiser
Eonslegacy1 votestahm isnt an addition, he is just a subtraction to all fun in the game at all stages of the game. Does anyone REALLY win when they play against tahm.
wolvius2 votestahm isnt an addition, he is just a subtraction to all fun in the game at all stages of the game. Does anyone REALLY win when they play against tahm.
Yeah fuck tahm kench, its painful to face him even in ARAM. Like ffs ADC auto the (lethal tempo) tank kench that is murdering your full melee allies instead of doing the equivalent of chasing singed.
I thought darius grab was 500 range? Edit: we're both wrong 535 range.
Thats a good description of hashinshin rants it might actually be the best i've seen, hes no public speaker hes just a streamer with only the time between getting ganked to explain his points.
######Im just going to add this clip to this post as I don't want another separate post https://vimeo.com/313711798 ######yes we had no grievous yet, had to get voids for the three people with 2+ mr items and vlad warmog + spirit visage first. Two morellos where on the way less than 5 mins later. I wish our early mr stacking cho was as effective at tanking their similar full ap team. Gotta love them 800-900 hp heals from RW (and potentially a 2nd two seconds later) which would require a Maokai having 5400hp (with Visage which this karma has) to get that heal from his passive.
The only reason full MR items feel so good is they give really good passives, I which armor items had useful passives once the armor becomes void. I wish there was an armor item that had adaptive cloaks passive for ad damage (not only crits) or CDR on a armor tank item with health. Their is so little synergy between Armor items, hell thornmail has anti-synergy with itself.
Velzard of Koz3 votesI'd like context for this.
Looking at #10 Plat+ separately for each role, separately for winrate, pickrate, banrate, being generous and counting Sylas, Rumble, Karma. Morgana and Vladimir as Mages (though the "generous" part is mostly about Sylas).
TOP: 3-5 Juggernauts, 0-2 Mages ADC: 0 of both JNG: 0 of both expect 2 Juggernauts by winrate MID: 0 Juggernauts, 4-6 Mages [by winrate, leaning towards domination] SUPP: 0 Juggernauts, 3-5 Mages [by winrate, leaning towards domination]
PB4UAME1 votesSupport, Mid, and Top are the three roles referred to, as best I can guess with Mordekaiser, Neeko, Kayle, Ryze, Vlad, Kennen, Rumble, Singed, Cho, and Heimer all in the top 10 winrates for Plat/Diamond/Master top lane, depending on which one you look at.
by bans we also have Sylas, Morde, Akali, Vlad in the top 10 most banned for Top in all three of Plat/Diamond/Masters+
Velzard of Koz3 votesGiven we are seriously mentoining Morde, Kayle, Singed and Akali I don't even know what we are talking about? Moody mentoined Mages as If only they dealt magic damage to have chance to shittalk them. Somehow when it comes to physical damage we have Tanks, Bruisers, Skirmishers, Assasins but with magic damage it's all Mage? That sounds biased. And only half of the problem is Mage itemiation.
If we want to go with dominantly magic damage, as would OP's post suggest (since he talks MR items which counter magic damage not AP):
leagueofgraphs | #10 | Plat+ | Toplane | Going by common sense of what is majority of their damage from by "What would I build to def against them; Armor or MR?"
Pickrate: 8 physical damage, 2 magic damage (Morde, Tahm Kench) Winrate: 6 physical damage, 3 magic damage (Kayle, Neeko, Maokai) then there's Voli who is the only one I cannot categorize, so it's either 7:3 or 6:4 Banrate: 5 physical damage, 5 magic damage (Morde, Tahm Kench, Vlad, Sylas, Akali)
Physical damage is simply picked more often top while there are picks from magic damage people are frustrated with. From these only two are really Mage.
Going by pickrate (real dominance), only Supp (8) and Mid (6) are dominated by magic damage and even then Supp is only dominated by it because Rissoto games has allergy for physical damage enchanter (note that it's possible to scale with AD and still do physical damage).
Even If you go All Roles, it's literally 15:5 ratio in favour of physical damage.
bronze smurf6918 votesIn what fuckin fantasy world is armor strong and mr weak? Stack enough MR and the mage will have a hard time killing you. That's why i main Vel'Koz, so i can point the middle finger to mr and melt your ass. But stack armor and it feels like you're not building armor at all.
The guy can go piss off with this shit since anything that beats him, it means it's unbalanced.
kapitulera på 156 votesHash's point is that armor items on mages are way too strong and gold efficient in contrast to MR items on bruisers/tanks.
But the majority of everyone here in this thread are below diamond, so there's no real point to try to discuss anything.
TheSingularity5 votes
Bruisers dont have a dedicated MR item because almost all their items are defensive hybrids in some way. The effective health would be about the same once they get a visage or helm in tandem with their kits
bronze smurf693 votes[deleted]
kapitulera på 152 votesLittle fart item? It gives 45 armor and ability power for the cost of 1100 gold, not to mention it has really good items that build into it (cloth armor and amp. tome), NOT TO MENTION it builds into zhonya's which has the extremely broken stasis passive. Hash is also challenger for several seasons meanwhile majority of the people in this comment section are sitting in gold/platinum for years.
bronze smurf693 votes[{quoted}](name=kapitulera på 15,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GuAdjnLO,comment-id=0011000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-18T09:27:12.656+0000)
Little fart item? It gives 45 armor and ability power for the cost of 1100 gold, not to mention it has really good items that build into it (cloth armor and amp. tome), NOT TO MENTION it builds into zhonya's which has the extremely broken stasis passive. Hash is also challenger for several seasons meanwhile majority of the people in this comment section are sitting in gold/platinum for years.
I don't give a flying fuck if Hashinshin is diamond, master, challenger, or even unranked.
The guy is a terrible option in terms of balance. High elo doesn't mean "I'm an expert in the game!" This mindset is false and delusional and it needs to die. Hashinshin is more or less great with mechanics and such, but understanding the game balance is literally something.
Knowing how to play the game doesn't mean you know or understand the game. Just like how you know how to drive a car yet you probably don't know shit how to assemble one or modify it.
And what if the item has 45 armor? It's only useful if an AD Assassin has a 
which is only a part of the 3 lethality items.
With Electrocute and Ignite and such, the armor is useless.
And even with the fuckin Zhonya item with your overused word "broken" stasis effect, that effect is useless probably more than its advantage. Guardian Angel can fuckin heal you to half hp while Zhonya will keep you right where you were.
kapitulera på 152 votesI seriously can't tell if you are serious anymore, trolling or just hugely biased.
You are saying armor is only useful if the enemy builds lethality. So, armor shouldn't be built at all unless the enemy builds armor pen first?
"With Electrocute and Ignite and such, the armor is useless." oh you're right, let's stop building armor completely because true damage ignores it.
Then you're comparing zhonya's to guardian angel which is stupid, you should be able to figure out why.
bronze smurf691 votesI seriously can't tell if you are serious anymore, trolling or just hugely biased.
Same thing to you mate. I've never seen someone who'd think zhonya's armor is half useful.
You are saying armor is only useful if the enemy builds lethality. So, armor shouldn't be built at all unless the enemy builds armor pen first?
I didn't even say that...I said how strong zhonya's component item can be against a lethality component yet it doesn't matter due to ignite and electrocute and nothing else.
"With Electrocute and Ignite and such, the armor is useless." oh you're right, let's stop building armor completely because true damage ignores it.
Nobody's building zhonya for the sake of its armor. Its active is the only useful thing that's worth buying. Basically all we've got for a defensive tool.
Then you're comparing zhonya's to guardian angel which is stupid, you should be able to figure out why.
They are both defensive items but both for different classes. Back then, guardian angel use to be also for AP champions which meant Zhonya wasn't our only option until riot decided to change it and make our already limited defensive options into even more limited. Even Banshee's Veil is pointless because anything can proc it even it's not a cc.
kapitulera på 152 votesWhen did I ever say people built zhonyas for the armor? I said people rush seekers armguard and that it builds into an item with a broken active. You're just straight up delusional and jumping to conclusions, g'bye.
Eonslegacy1 votesno his point is that armor beats mr in total damage reduced, but his point doesnt matter because losing damage results in not having kill pressure or saftey because they will delete your team AND you. Its just armor IS stronger than mr as a baseline in general, which is why theres significantly more armor pen in the game than magic(plus higher base armor) but magic damage CHAMPIONS suffer MORE from enemies having MR than AD champs suffer from them having armor. Darius with sunfire cape BC will CRUSH wukong that only has BC and duskblade, simly because wukong doesnt have the burst to threaten darius, and darius and wukong have similar sustained damages but darius burst IS threatening to wukong. Dr mundo with a spirit visage vs a karthus is the funniest lane ever, Karthus ooms BEFORE mundo uses his R.
kapitulera på 152 votesMore armor pen items in the game? Mages have morello, sorc boots and void staff, AD has lethality and the last whisper passive. You're also saying that tanks are beating assassins and mages early game like it's supposed to prove anything.
Galiö15 votesMost games end at 3 items and I doubt peoples builds would be to rush deaths dance, into spirit visage into warmogs.
FiveAneurysms12 votesKarma gauntlet top currently dominating, lux aftershock bot currently dominating WITH morgana, most mages go mid and dominate vs anything no yasuo zed talon.
bRuIsErs bROkEN
taleofsonata4 votesKarma gauntlet top currently dominating, lux aftershock bot currently dominating WITH morgana, most mages go mid and dominate vs anything no yasuo zed talon.
bRuIsErs bROkEN
HP items, no resistance darius 0/12, catches ashes with E, proceeds to one shot her. Mages needs item to do that, Bruisers don't their own strength is innate meaning that they don't need items to do what they do now.
FiveAneurysms3 votesHP items, no resistance darius 0/12, catches ashes with E, proceeds to one shot her. Mages needs item to do that, Bruisers don't their own strength is innate meaning that they don't need items to do what they do now.
IDK in which universe the 0/12 Darius survives more than 2 autos from Ashe, nor in that universe would he even DREAM of getting close to her, Good thing mages are ranged tho :)
AirKingNeo3 voteswhy is ashe in range of darius? ashe can kite darius. also darius would be dead by now anyways
taleofsonata3 voteswhy is ashe in range of darius? ashe can kite darius. also darius would be dead by now anyways
Because deadman's plate give free 100 movement speed for just walking?
wolvius5 votesBecause deadman's plate give free 100 movement speed for just walking?
UNIQUE – DREADNOUGHT: Generates a maximum of 100 Momentum stacks by moving, which grant up to 60 bonus movement speed. ###Darius movespeed### 340 base + 45 (T2 boots) +60 (deadmans)+ ((20 or 60) trinity passive)
(1) Deadman + boots: 445, (1) + physical damage speed buff: 465 (1) + kill (anything) :505
###Ashe movespeed###
325 + 45(boots) + 7% movespeed 
Total: 396
Passive: 15-30% slow W/Crit 30-60% slow
445/100= 4.45 x 85 (15% slow) = 378 Slower than ashe 505/100= 5.05 x 85 (15% slow) = 429.25 Ok hes faster than level 1 ashe without double slow from W. 5.05 x 70 (30% slow) = 353.5 Slower than ashe if uses W's past level 1 or level 16
All thats without crit btw or movespeed caps, so even more unlikely darius reaches ashe without his dashes. I ain't a fan of darius or many of CT designs but if your ranged you have far less to complain about than melee.
Also your using the Hashinshin balance data wrong, if he says a tank is overnerfed its definately overnerfed, if he says bruisers are weak they're probably fine or otherwise not well designed for current (and future) league with dash galore unless they have their own.
If he says nerf fiora you actually listen to his idea (she is kinda a bruiser afterall) buff her splitpush ability (kills dont win games objectives like towers do) and nerf her near autowinning melee matchup heavily to compensate. This is probably one of his rare spot-on ideas.
Eonslegacy1 votesexcept your not factoring in the fact ashes range is sub 730 and darius grip range is at that, your not factoring in the fact darius has 2 slows that cripple by 99%, or the fact darius has flash and can kill ashe in 2 seconds but ashe needs 5 or more to kill darius, your also not factoring in ashe has to STOP to auto darius doesnt to use q, the w auto (yea its like tfs card instant) if ashe is at max range, starts the auto and darius is running at her, it takes ashes delay + ashes projectile speed - darius move speed in that time + darius move speed when ashe has to reapply the slow/stop to use w, ASSUMING darius DOESNT hit the apprehend. But yea kiting is a lot harder than it looks on paper.
wolvius2 votesexcept your not factoring in the fact ashes range is sub 730 and darius grip range is at that, your not factoring in the fact darius has 2 slows that cripple by 99%, or the fact darius has flash and can kill ashe in 2 seconds but ashe needs 5 or more to kill darius, your also not factoring in ashe has to STOP to auto darius doesnt to use q, the w auto (yea its like tfs card instant) if ashe is at max range, starts the auto and darius is running at her, it takes ashes delay + ashes projectile speed - darius move speed in that time + darius move speed when ashe has to reapply the slow/stop to use w, ASSUMING darius DOESNT hit the apprehend. But yea kiting is a lot harder than it looks on paper.
I know that kiting at times can't be difficult, uhh that moment you cancel an auto sucks especially as ashe. Im pretty sure every champ has flash except hecarim and shaco so not really a mayor factor (also 5 min cooldown for getting to ashe once who outside of being alone has near free rein in a fight to damage darius without much chance of retaliation). Ashe also should have teammates unless shes split-pushing on her own which is unwise for most adc champs
You mean that a range champ should have the same TTK as an immobile (removing non-kit things like flash and the happy tree Q)melee champ, that in essence would also have to get through your team who most likely have CC or slow of their own. Who has to be in a dangerous proximity to enemies to deal any damage.
Ashe W is also 1200unit range (guarenteed double slow 30-60% ), in practise more range if an enemy is running at you on a 4 seconds cooldown. Ashe in most cases shouldn't even have to fear darius getting close with her double slow from W which last 2 seconds (her aa do as well) on an ability with 4 sec CD rank 5 @ 0 CDR. Also ashe is one of the few 600 range aa range champs so she has some play room around the apprehend.
If a champion makes the error of getting in range of him yeah he has the tools to keep them there with that cripple and grab but thats not the champs counterplay (even if stupid, but newer designs are bullshit in different ways)
CrazyMonkeyCZ11 votesI mean, Protobelt is strong while being really cheap so idk.
Also he said there should be similar dmg tank items(
) for mr as well, which sounds reasonable.
CoolKnightST10 votesHashinshin is wrong, but the reverse is far from the truth:
will be intressting in solving this problem.
Voluug133 votesProtobelt needs a damage active nerf and buffs uhhh somewhere else. It should be picked for mobility or stats not just an extra bit of burst damage.
Hammermancer9 votesI like how the guy who bitched his way into conqueror spear of shojin jax being a thing still tries to talk about balance
He had a good point about top lane being a garbage heap
Critmaster Garen7 votes{quoted} He had a good point about top lane being a garbage heap
it still is, sadly.
Wild Geese4 votesArmor should be stronger than magic resist...
Autoattacks are plentiful, targetted and free, (most) spells have cooldown, mana, and are skill shots... also there's a lot more spells and champions who scale with AD than there is AP.
Thilmer4 votesThis gotta be blatant trolling.
Armour is the worst stat in the game rigth now, and it has been the worst stat in the game for at least two seasons. It's laughable how you can play a game with 5 AD champions and don't worry at all about getting countered by a team with a few tanks and lots of armour. I just lost a game like that: Vayne and Yasuo melting tanks left and rigth with a ton of armour pen and percentual damages.
If anything, armour ítems need a serious buff, or a nerf to armour pen, and stop giving everyone and his grandma access to percentual damage because building a ton of health is supposed to be a legit option to counter certain champions, not a way of wasting gold.
