Promos are unhealthy, please remove them.

U R Good At Game·Apr 19, 2017·54 votes·2,793 views

Promotion games make no sense and just increase climbing time for no reason. They make you play on edge more likely to tilt or mess up, the desire to win clouds decision making, players using NA.OP.GG target you during promos, etc.

Think about the uselessness of promos. If I hold a 50% rate I am mathematically guaranteed to pass promos at some point. To GET to promos you need a 50% win rate......WTF. The only reason I'm in divison 5 instead of 3 is because I've been cucked during promos. I've done promos 4 times now. What does that mean? I have the 50%+ winrate needed to climb but some external force is effecting promos. Not my skill. If I didn't have the skill to win 2/3 games I wouldn't be able climb back to promos. It would be impossible. It is arbitrary with no real value other than to gate climb progress.

45 Comments

Wolftastic33Apr 19, 201718 votes

In exchange for promos, you also have the protection of not going down a division as soon as you have 0lp and lose a game. Do you want that to be gone too, in exchange for no promos? Otherwise you'd clearly would only want stuff to get easier, not fairer.

GrymmstrikeApr 19, 20171 votes

I don't think that is the case. My first time getting to B4 this season, I got through promo, sent out a twitter update about getting B4 and the very next match, I lost and was demoted...Second time I hit B4, I lost the next 4 games and never got demoted...

AmazoXApr 19, 20171 votes

Its based on your MMR.

GayFluffyUnicornApr 19, 20171 votes

Except this thing nearly doesn't exist in diamond for example. Unless you have like 60% winrate. So you grind promos and grind and grind for what? Exactly to drop regardless at 0 LP. Over the course of the season you won't maintain your 60% winrate anyways so you get to a point like sola who just dropped from master to dia 4 in 1 day. You get massive MMR penalties making you lose 20-25 points and then drop at 0 anyways no matter the promo games you played.

U R Good At GameApr 19, 20177 votes

Not true. Plenty of games have protection with no promos. A big one that is extremely successful being Overwatch. Not to mention the only reason people hate demotions is knowing that you have not win 2 more games THEN win MORE games in promotions. So even if your untrue statement was correct, I would rather freely shift up and down. If you have a 50% win rate you would climb. Doesn't matter.

TotalJerkApr 19, 20171 votes

This JUST happened to me, though.

MunchCrunchLunchApr 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

In exchange for promos, you also have the protection of not going down a division as soon as you have 0lp and lose a game. Do you want that to be gone too, in exchange for no promos? Otherwise you'd clearly would only want stuff to get easier, not fairer.

yeah but we wouldn't care about falling down if we had no damn promos or no losing of 25 lp automaticaly after demoting. its horseshit. also not gaining any lp when you already have 100 when u get there.

RIDICULOUS ARGUMENT. mathematically false . as long as you have a positive winrate. you will climb. the lower the slower. the higher the faster. promos are bullshit. you gotta understand. without promo games the only thing that is meaningful. is your MMR. which is based on winning more than losing. the rank goldv bronzev silver 2. any rank name. would be arbitrary. the only thing that matters is your location on the ladder. also your MMR. right now your location on the ladder is decided by first your rank and second your lp. rank is arbitrary and should be ditched

every fucking high elo person duos with another person when they end the season or on a new account hell they duo even in diamond or high plat because they know they are playing with garbage that got boosted beyond plat1 to D5 and they will take months to fall down back tp lat if they ever play enough games.

a special oneApr 19, 20175 votes

nah they're not, and your mmr is the same in promos. without them climbing would be too easy and getting higher elo would feel not as good.

U R Good At GameApr 19, 20173 votes

Tell that to overwatch.

Weasel KenseiApr 20, 20172 votes

If climbing were too easy, wouldnt everyone climb, therefore nothing would change except we wouldnt have promo trolls and promotion, demotion, promotion nonsense some people deal with?

cant anim cancelApr 19, 20175 votes

"im stuck in silver 5, remove promos so i can climb cause im bad"

U R Good At GameApr 19, 20176 votes

Or using logic and facts to explain the arbitrary nature of a system that further uses RNG to base climbing. I commend the effort tho. How do you suppress enough brain cells to make such a such a flawed argument? Their are 3 fallacies in that one comment. Oh sorry, your type may not know what that is. A logical fallacy being an error in reasoning that renders one's argument invalid.

NiaphimApr 19, 20174 votes

He/she/apache has a correct point though. Those who support removing promos think they will climb higher. While this might be true, if you are in the same division after ~50 games played, you are within 1 division from your true level anyway, and promos have nothing to do with this. Also, if your mmr is really high aka you are really better than those who you play with, you skip promos.

TotalJerkApr 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Those who support removing promos think they will climb higher.

A lot of people misuse the term strawman, but that is a classic example, because you based your entire argument around countering some shit absolutely no one said.

NiaphimApr 19, 20172 votes

How is that? And if this statement is not correct, then why remove promos? The whole OP is revolving around the word "climbing". OP says that removing promos will accelerate climbing = climb higher in the same period of time. My argument is that is not true, because matchmaking is based on mmr, and you can climb really fast if you are really good, or in other words, promos is one of really minor factors that affect your rank. It clamps your lp gains, both positive and negative, and doesn't affect mmr gains at all.

U R Good At GameApr 20, 20172 votes

Faster != higher. If your climbing a 20 foot ladder, no matter how fast you are your still stopping at 20ft. Also matchmaking is RNG in low elo....anyone who plays 10 games knows that. The skill gap between the millions and millions of players in low elo is not equal. You have fresh 30's against 3 year vets against kids against trolls against flame.

Again let's use me. I lost promos 3 times before getting promoted today. Did I climb higher than I expected for today? no. Would it have been hella faster if at 100 lp I was promoted? yes. Did I still need to win more games than I lost to climb either way? yes. Promos are nothing but time gates. Coin flips.

TotalJerkApr 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gpct8hX6,comment-id=000700000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-04-20T03:08:01.525+0000)

The skill gap between the millions and millions of players in low elo is not equal.

God, this is so true. The sheer gap between players in every bronze/silver game is astronomical. It's a fucking mess. You can get someone who seems to play at the level of the average everyday veteran player in one game, and the next someone who seems barely worth classifying as actually knowing how to play the fucking game, and both those people will typically be in the same goddamn division.

TotalJerkApr 20, 20171 votes

Who gives a fuck if the argument is true or not? It's not the argument OP made. You can't just assume/make up shit to dispute and act like you shot down the actual argument being presented to you.

Sun Wu RyuumokuApr 19, 20173 votes

If u are stuck S5 its not system fault... git gud.

U R Good At GameApr 19, 20173 votes

I'm not stuck, just got promoted 15m ago. It's a waste a time. I have a 53% win rate, Im guranteed to climb. Promos just increase time.

LozaApr 19, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gpct8hX6,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2017-04-19T18:44:49.387+0000)

I'm not stuck, just got promoted 15m ago. It's a waste a time. I have a 53% win rate, Im guranteed to climb. Promos just increase time.

Yes, you will definitely climb ELO with that kind of win percentage. Will you climb quickly? Probably not, but given the time and effort, you will definitely climb.

A 53% win rate is a decent win rate and guarantees that you will EVENTUALLY climb according to your skill level. You might feel as if promos are a waste of time, but they are not. It really helps you learn a lot about your skill level, game knowledge, and mechanics--because you are (in most cases)going to try your best to win and get promoted.

A 53% win rate in silver means you are better than the average player (you win more than you lose) in that elo. But you are just a little bit better, not by a huge margin. Your skill level--in most cases--determines how fast you will climb. And--as stated previously--you will be climbing relatively slow in accordance to your 53% win rate.

U R Good At GameApr 20, 20172 votes

faster if promos werent time-gating me. Also is extremely punishing against players that can only play like 3 games at max a day. I don't see why winning 2 more games after just winning 5 is necessary. Just make the Lp to get promoted 140 if your gonna arbitrary as fuck.

SexyBabyJesusZApr 19, 20172 votes

I hate promos too, so fucking annoying

Packun FlowerApr 19, 20172 votes

Yes please for the love of god kill the fucking promo system this season.

Koishi KomeijiApr 19, 20172 votes

Totally agree. You know whats the worst feeling ever? Being gold v with platinum mmr in season 6. Climb from gold v to gold 1 in 4 days just before season change and in the promos for plat you get matched with platinum 1, platinum 2 who troll and you lose the promos 2 hours before the season changed. I mean I was 1900 mmr or something, it said Platinum IV in op.gg and I was gold 1 and got the shitty gold border because the stupid promos didnt allow me to "go platinum" even though I was plat in mmr since I was playing with high platinum.

I'm silver 3 in solo now because I was tilted and lost 8 of my provisionals and played duo with some bronze/silver guys and ruined my mmr.

TheMinezApr 19, 20172 votes

You can just say that your border is plat using alternate facts and tell anyone that says otherwise that they are fake news.

Koishi KomeijiApr 20, 20171 votes

You can just say that your border is plat using alternate facts and tell anyone that says otherwise that they are fake news.

Kek

YoungSirJ0eyApr 19, 20171 votes

That's placements, not promos.

Mast3rShakeApr 19, 20172 votes

So, I made a thread about this a while back that has 685 upvotes now:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jAroXdhq-promos-upvote-to-remove-them-downvote-to-keep-them?sort_type=recent

but I think Riot has addressed it somewhat now. Now by being able to automatically get a win if you make it back to promos you really only truly need to win 2 out of three games. The first game gets you into promos, and now you only need to have a 50% win rate to move on.

I still think promos should just be removed, but the current systems is much fairer than the old one. When I lose my promos now I at least don't feel as bad because I know when I get back to them I will only have to win half my games in it. That being said, I am still pretty low and feel confident I will easily make it back to my promos. When I get closer to being at my true rank I think how promos work will be a problem again and I may agree with your thoughts and my original post from long ago.

U R Good At GameApr 19, 20171 votes

Yeah they are better I agree. It's just still an arbitrary time gate. Promotional games are supposed to that final test in the game industry. Except riot just uses regular games. Your promo isn't differen't that the other games. You just have anxiety and a bad wanna-be lcs focusing you. Now a correct use of promotional would be doing it every TIER, not division. Then to enter the next tier you need beat a team with the mmr of the desired tier.

For example if your silver 1 and get to promos, instead of being matched with other silver 1 and 2's and the occassional gold V, You would be matched with and against gold 5 and 4s. This means to get promoted you need to prove that you can handle the people in that tier.

That is how you correctly use a promotional system that has value and isn't tedious. Division promos exist just to exist and add/prove nothing.

iLLpApr 19, 20171 votes

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=o+fuck i can't even play my promos

MissCha0sApr 19, 20171 votes

Yeah, I've just gained the courage to start rank and well promos is defiantly interesting, to my surprise I found I was going against those who were apparently high bronze, mid/high silver or low gold, anyone else feel like they just have terrible luck in promos, I end up getting teammates who are toxic and fight or going against people I feel like are way more skilled then me, or both lol. Idk probably just my bad luck and lack of skill. I feel like I don't know too much about it to really comment whether I think it's good or not, so this comment is probably no good. ^_^;

MunchCrunchLunchApr 19, 20171 votes

its quite funny that most challenger and D1+ players are the same players every season. with a cpl new every once in a while. once you are high elo its extremely difficult to fall back down.

promos is one of the reasons why

U R Good At GameApr 19, 20172 votes

Promos and the demotion safety net aren't linked. 2 entirely different systems that don't need to co-exist. Demotion safety is to protect the player from factors affecting game play like tilt, afk, lag. It allows you to take the L that game but win the next one before demotion. Not to mention, is it smart game design to have a system that is only beneficial to <1% of a playerbase while being largely detrimental to the 70% Player base? Not exactly. Even when I used my friends plat account I can still hold an above 50% win rate yet the system says I'm silver because I couldn't get cucked harder on my promos if I tried.

This is even further true when you factor in low elo has way too much of a skill gap in player base that perpetuates RNG in matchmaking. You can get matched with so many different skill levels. This problem doesn't affect high elo nearly as bad. Low elo has so much RNG in matchmaking that promotions are even harder than they are poorly designed to be. Riot does not take that into account. If the skill gap of low elo was anywhere near even I would accept promos a bit more even tho they are largely pointless.

NiaphimApr 19, 20171 votes

So, basically you want to remove the obstacles to climb but keep the safety net against falling? Not arguing about design decisions, but it would just inflate everyones mmr, and in relative perspective everyone will still be in the same shoes.

U R Good At GameApr 20, 20171 votes

That would be good. League has a terrible balance anyway..... Gold should be average. Making the average player bronze means that the skill gap is way to varied because below average players have NO WHERE to fall.... Especially when you consider most fresh 30's are placed into Bronze or s5 making those trying to get out of bronze even harder.

Right Now the way the player base is divided its:

Bronze - Average

Silver - Above average

Gold - Good

Plat - Great

Diamond- Showing mastery

Master - Master

Challenger - proffessional

But it should be:

Bronze - Bad

Silver - Below average

gold - average

plat - good

and so on.

While you may have opinions whether or not gold/plat is good or bad if you use the playerbase that what it is.

TotalJerkApr 19, 20171 votes

It's because Division 5 clamps people SUPER hard. You have to basically play like a gold to get demoted out of Diamond 5.

LozaApr 19, 20171 votes

Well, that is the beauty of promos. You are willing to play at your best in order to successfully be promoted. Unfortunately, promos tend to be annoying because of the players you have in your team. I understand how frustrating promo games are... I lost my promos from Plat 2 to Plat 1 at least 7 times... and just decided not to dedicate my time anymore.

But I do believe promo games definitely make sense. They already give us a free win after failing it once--I believe this holds true to gold elo and below. I didn't get any free wins in plat.

U R Good At GameApr 20, 20171 votes

Nothing u said evaluated that they made sense. Saying that they made a pointless mechanic less irritating doesn't give it value.

TotalJerkApr 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gpct8hX6,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-19T07:08:06.501+0000)

just increase climbing time for no reason.

That's exactly why they are there. They exist to increase the grind of climbing, forcing you to play more if you're unlucky.

U R Good At GameApr 20, 20171 votes

Which is arbitrary.

caIicko kittyApr 20, 20171 votes

This happened to me in my promos to Plat 4. I went through promos 3 times with a 60% win rate overall. When I finally completed the promos, I skipped Plat 4 and moved to Plat 3.

ÈvilMortyApr 20, 20171 votes

i lost gold 3 promos to 2 afks at 15min in when we had a massive lead

iIIuminationApr 20, 20171 votes

The player base has asked Riot to get rid of promotion series between divisions (not tiers) since they came out. REALLY, 90% of people have voiced their opinion that the system is absolute garbage. They won't take them out because the more you have to grind, the more time you spend playing their game and possibly buying skins, the more money they make. Riot only cares about money and always thinks they're right.