can we talk about how bad daisy is?

I recently made a post about ivern and how i think his kit should be made more fun to play so he can get picked more and while anecdotally speaking i've found daisy to be consistently underwhelming it wasnt until now that ive actually looked at some numbers and done a comparison to prove it.

Tibbers is the obvious choice to compare daisy as theyre both large summonable melee pets for ultimates. It quickly becomes clear what a sorry state daisy is in. Ive ran the numbers using 500 ap with both skills at rank 3.

Ill start with where daisy excels.

• ehp: 8.6k vs tibbers 5.1k
• sustained single target damage: 333 vs tibbers 179
• base ms 419 vs tibbers 350
• can dash to enemy champions but only when rooted with ivern's q

And now where she fails (unless otherwise noted the tibbers stats will be enraged tibbers since he is enraged when it matters mostly when he's summoned, but also when annie stuns anyone, and after annie dies):

• total initial 3 second damage output: 1k vs tibbers 2.17k damage
• additionally daisy has only single target dps (besides unreliable flower power knock) while tibbers's is 81% aoe.
• cooldown: 120 seconds vs tibbers 80 *additionally daisys maximum uptime is always lower than tibbers decause the ratio of her cd to duration is higher
• tibbers cast is practically instant whereas daisys has a noticeable cast delay
• daisy dies if ivern dies, tibbers heals himself and enrages if annie dies!

------------------------------------------------------------------- **TLDR & Important takeaways ** Daisy does around half the damage that tibbers does in 3 seconds and while daisy's damage relies solely on her slow single target melee autoattacks, 80% of tibbers's damage is aoe and much of that is instant and frontloaded on annies 4. The ease of comboing annies passive with her 4 effectively guarantees that tibbers also comes with an aoe stun where as daisy has a dubious (at best) very delayed short range multitarget knock. Daisy is frankly as useless as tibbers would be if annies 4 did no initial damage and tibbers had no aura...and with a 50% longer cd to boot aka abysmal. --------------------------------------------------------------------

Some additional thoughs/opinions after looking at these numbers

Honestly idk how they could leave him with this ult or rather idk after knowing tibbers exists how they could leave this ult as it was because it's plainly inferior and frankly his kit lacks anything else that could make up for such a weak ult. After looking at the numbers i wouldn't think it crazy to think daisy could be a regular skill. Halve her hp and reduce her cd by 2/3 and she'd be a fine skill. I get not everyone has a consistently game changing ult but daisy is essentially never game changing. If she even lands her knockup it's because enemies let her due to her abysmal range and slow attack speed, im not saying its the worst mechanic but she just overall does not have the effect on a battle that an ult skill should. I'm sure the ivern mains will come out and be like "oh you just have to know when to use her" or "oh you don't know what youre saying, tibbers is not a valid comparison" but yet when annie can press r and do almost 3/4s of the damage in an aoe that daisy takes 3 seconds to do to a single target while stunning everyone in the aoe I simply can't entertain the argument that daisy is in a good spot as iverns ult. Also if ivern is supposed to be a catcher then why does his ult have no reliable cc? idek what direction they could take her to make her more worthwhile, they could do so many things, it's just that as she is now she seems like a blank slate that they just left like without meaningful abilities or use. It just rlly surprises me how something so unfinished/inferior could slip through their qc.