When you look at Nautilus, you'd think that every blow he lands would hit like a truck. But then you get to Titan's Wrath and see it applies a DoT. To me, that seems kinda... strange. You'd think that getting hit by Nautilus when he's angry would hit you with enough force to bring down a building, but nope, he somehow inflicts a... salt-water burn?
Is there a reason why the damage of Titan's Wrath isn't instantaneous?
RiotMeddler11 votesThe intent behind Nautilus' damage on W being split between the initial impact and a follow up DoT is to make getting some attack speed rewarding, but not mandatory (e.g. if Wit's End is in a spot where it's considered a useful item to pick up on some champs it should be worth considering on Nautilus, without being a 'get this or fail' item).
Kobold1 votesThe intent behind Nautilus' damage on W being split between the initial impact and a follow up DoT is to make getting some attack speed rewarding, but not mandatory (e.g. if Wit's End is in a spot where it's considered a useful item to pick up on some champs it should be worth considering on Nautilus, without being a 'get this or fail' item).
just going to link this thread on the Wit's End topic
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1Ehztg4Z-fixing-wits-end-in-the-preason
hashinshin18 votesThe intent behind Nautilus' damage on W being split between the initial impact and a follow up DoT is to make getting some attack speed rewarding, but not mandatory (e.g. if Wit's End is in a spot where it's considered a useful item to pick up on some champs it should be worth considering on Nautilus, without being a 'get this or fail' item).
Oh man, I remember Wit's End Naut!
Then you guys reduced his damage by 33% across the board and rendered him a non-competitive crap pick. Fun times!
WooBeeWoo1 votesYes Hashinshin... I remember the day and it sucked.
Cuix6 votesWhat's the reasoning for keeping it a DoT now, given the current strength of AS-centric items? I don't think a change to burst would actually lead to a big change in his satisfaction, playstyle, or build paths.
RiotMeddler8 votesThat'd be an option if looking to buff Nautilus certainly. He's one of the junglers the live balance team are currently tracking to see if they're too weak given the jungle changes. Main question to ask would be whether there are better places to put power on him instead if he needs it - which buffs address where he needs power, when, leave build options open where possible, give him a distinct niche as a tank etc
Pokeprof4 votesHow about not making Naut's extra damage on his W tied directly to the shield? That's honestly one of the main reasons he's having troubles in the jungle at the moment is the simple fact that once that shield is broken away by the monsters, he loses his extra damage. Maybe tie it directly to the normal buff length of the shield even if the shield doesn't last its normal full duration?
darkdill2 votesThat means the damage doesn't have counterplay in team fights. If it were like this, Nautilus players would build offensive stats too much.
Adalore2 votesThen give him half damage after the shield is broken, it's this binary nature between his shield being up and down that screws his jungle power and makes him a feast or famine when he gets "JUST" tanky enough.
Matthevv2 votesThis could just as easily be solved with higher base attack damage or higher scaling on his attack damage or by increasing the base shield amount. Why do you have to make it so complicated for the player?
WooBeeWoo3 votesWhy can't Naut have the option of a damage build path. Or at least a sinlge damage item and tank like every useful tank in the game right now.
5G8Nri0B541 votesif Naut builds too much damage, he won't last a second. He has ZERO defensive steroids. All he has is a shield that requires him to build tanky
Bodkins Odds1 votesHow about making the shield take less damage from jungle mosters, so it stays up longer during clears but it doesn't change his team fighting at all.
Luigi Tortellini2 votesFFS of course he's too weak in the new jungle. EVERYONE is too weak in the new jungle except for Yi Fid WW. Just revert the changes completely. In season 4 I could pick fucking Ashe jungle and farm just fine. Now I struggle just to stay healthy on Aatrox. If you plan on keeping all these stupid and gimmicky changes you've introduced (selective smiting... why.../poachers knife...lol) at least bring back the sustain from the spirit and golem items. I don't understand how taking the sustain out of jungle items made it out of Alpha when it killed jungle diversity instantly.
WooBeeWoo1 votes^ truth
WooBeeWoo1 votesNews flash he's doing really really shitty and has been for a while.... the fact that your balance team is only now looking at him and hasn't already seen a problem proves to me you guys don't know wth you're doing to balance this game.... wow
5G8Nri0B541 votesI just want him to feel like a giant metal man swinging around a giant anchor. Whatever the balance team is up to, pleade let them know the LACK OF IMPACT and satisfaction with each attack is his bigest problem.
If he is UP, just buff him. But if he doesnt fullfill his fantasy, thats more complicated.
Quepha2 votesI just want him to feel like a giant metal man swinging around a giant anchor. Whatever the balance team is up to, pleade let them know the LACK OF IMPACT and satisfaction with each attack is his bigest problem.
If he is UP, just buff him. But if he doesnt fullfill his fantasy, thats more complicated.
i don't think damaging autos are part of his fantasy. he does have a big anchor but his theme is this slow, plodding, inevitable monster that catches you and you can't escape. his multiple forms of cc are what make naut feel like naut and he can cycle them to lock a single target down better than any champ in the game, and if he is capable of dealing damage it should be a slow process of sustained damage like he's smothering his target in the depths.
5G8Nri0B541 votesyou described a sticky slime monster fantasy. zero damage......but keeps you smothered in place.
The fact of the matter is , Riot made his most distinctive feature his big ass anchor. His lack of damage thus is a failure in desogn fue to its jarring effect on gameplay
Quepha1 votesyou described a sticky slime monster fantasy. zero damage......but keeps you smothered in place.
The fact of the matter is , Riot made his most distinctive feature his big ass anchor. His lack of damage thus is a failure in desogn fue to its jarring effect on gameplay
his anchor hooks people, roots them with just an auto, and i feel all of his lore and quotes support the idea of a cc slime monster. people have said he meeds more damage before, but no one really complained that an anchor needs to deal a ton of burst damage until the recent cinematic
5G8Nri0B541 votesi did...since release.
the cinematic just reminded people that an anchor like that SHOULD hurt like hell
lightdragoon881 votesSince we are on the subject of Nautilus, can we talk about his theme?
5G8Nri0B546 votesyeah, but now you end up with a very jarring and unrewarding "Giant holding giant anchor" that clearly isn't swinging an anchor because of how cruddy his damage is...then by making it D o T, you excaberate that problem by making him feel even WEAKER
What you need to do.
Each hit MUST be strong and impactful.
He needs to inflict way more damage, idc if you hit his mobility or something. He neefs go be sturdy and hard hitting. Not just "pretty good at cc ing" as though thats.something unique on a tank.
May I suggest.giving him % damage and NOT tie his damage to a quickly deplet3d shield?
-typed on my phone
Tiropat1 votespretty good at ccing? he has 4 cc's in his kit that is off the charts
Angry Monster1 votes2 are super close range though and one of those is just a slow. And he pays hard for his CC. He has no damage and can not defend himself against other champs.
5G8Nri0B541 votesyet outside of an ULTIMATE, all the cc he provides are not nearly as devastating as Rammus' taunt.
Again, a TANK having cc? Big whoop.
FrozenIndustry2 votesOn the subject of Naut, any chance that he'll get some attention soon? Most people seem to agree that he's in a bad place, and it seems that some reds do as well, given some of the implied answers in the preseason Q&A. Right now he doesn't live up to his theme at all, and could really use the attention.
darkdill1 votesWell, at this point in time, I don't think going high AS Nautilus would be very powerful since if he went Wit's End and BoRK (or something like that), he's definitely not going to have enough toughness to keep his shield up for long. Enemies would break it quickly and he'd lose that damage bonus.
Besides, it'd make more sense if the damage on-hit were all in one blow per blow as a thematic thing.
Could you at least test changing the DoT to a burst hit and see what happens?
Angry Monster1 votesAS naut was never a thing. His dot does not do damage if you go beyond 1.0 AS.
Alëk1 votesThe intent behind Nautilus' damage on W being split between the initial impact and a follow up DoT is to make getting some attack speed rewarding, but not mandatory (e.g. if Wit's End is in a spot where it's considered a useful item to pick up on some champs it should be worth considering on Nautilus, without being a 'get this or fail' item).
I have quite literally never even considered getting a Wit's end on Nautilus. Mainly because of how poorly he scales with it. I'm not doing the math, but from what I can tell from games with him, his AS scaling is lack luster to say the least.
LordOfTheLeague1 votesBut isn't it strange to make his W scale with attack speed when Nautilus is supposed to be slow and bursty ? I would prefer him to have a synergy with something like Iceborn gauntlet (bursty sheen proc) than with something like wit's end. Maybe you should rework it as a low cd skill and find a way to keep his big shield.
Quepha1 votesThe intent behind Nautilus' damage on W being split between the initial impact and a follow up DoT is to make getting some attack speed rewarding, but not mandatory (e.g. if Wit's End is in a spot where it's considered a useful item to pick up on some champs it should be worth considering on Nautilus, without being a 'get this or fail' item).
can you clarify how exactly this works? i always thought AS was a completely useless stat on nautilus because as long as he kept attacking once every 2 seconds the dot would stay up, what you've just described is very different in function from what the tooltip states.
Sightless661 votesHalf of the listed damage is dealt on-hit, and half is dealt as a DoT.
Quepha1 votesHalf of the listed damage is dealt on-hit, and half is dealt as a DoT.
is it a 2 second DoT like the tooltip says, or a 1 second DoT like the wiki says?
Sightless661 votesFrom experience, I'd guess 2 seconds. I really couldn't tell you though.
Sire Hippington10 voteseven though it doesn't say so in the tooltip, it actually works like teemos dot, some on-hit damage combined with a dot. If they would put all the damage into the on-hit, as-nauti would escalte rather quickly.
Kingsgrave2 voteseven though it doesn't say so in the tooltip, it actually works like teemos dot, some on-hit damage combined with a dot. If they would put all the damage into the on-hit, as-nauti would escalte rather quickly.
I honestly don't see a problem with that.
DJ Hatsune Miku6 votesIt's more of a balance issue. If he had like +100 magic damage per hit with shield up he'd be absurd early/mid game since he can get a good few autos in with it up, his clearing would also be buffed significantly. Making it a dot lets him deal considerable damage while not being overbearing because it's over time, letting it be easier for him to do a lot of damage with just 1 auto as each tick is reduced by resistances. Still, that empowered auto hurts even if it's a dot.
squirrelah6 votesIt's more of a balance issue. If he had like +100 magic damage per hit with shield up he'd be absurd early/mid game since he can get a good few autos in with it up, his clearing would also be buffed significantly. Making it a dot lets him deal considerable damage while not being overbearing because it's over time, letting it be easier for him to do a lot of damage with just 1 auto as each tick is reduced by resistances. Still, that empowered auto hurts even if it's a dot.
Yeah except nautilus is complete trash atm. He can barely clear and falls off hard damage wise if people are decent and break his shield.
DJ Hatsune Miku5 votesBecause the reason you pick Naut is for damage .-. Get real. Start red and he can go buff wolves buff fine and back into trailblazer which allows him to farm since he sure as hell doesn't need any more CC. Items like Glory's Call and the ease of getting tank items with the change to cloth armor and null magic means he's going to have an even easier time piecing together what he needs. Naut can never be a bad pick. It's not like someone like Kha who would have trouble assassinating or Shyv who lives or dies on her ability to farm and counterjungle which at the moment is poor. The amount of CC, bulk, and initiation he brings is the best of any champion in the game and there is no way that amount of lockdown can be bad. If Vi is behind and Q's into their team she can barely get an ult off before getting deleted. Naut can Q in, blow his combo and probably knock up 3 people, snare two, slow all 5, and then die while his team has had a collective 5 seconds to do whatever they please while the enemy team is dealing and recovering from his CC. Not to mention his ganking is always going to be 10/10 with his flash negating Q and extremely potent point and click CC at 6. Not being meta =/= trash. If that was the case Rammus would be trash yet he's been top 3 winrates for over half a year, same with Fiddle and Janna who, even when the holy trinity of thresh leo morg was the go to bot lane for supports was sitting comfortably above them all.
Cuix2 votesIn light of the stated reasoning for their Cass rework recently, this explanation seems odd. It seems as though Riot considers DoTs to be generally a poor idea for damage, especially high amounts of damage, when compared to burst.
Bodkins Odds1 votesStashu ≠ the entirety of Riot. And besides that, I'm pretty sure his "DoT's are super powerful" complaint is just a claim he's making in a futile attempt to save face because he doesn't want to admit that his rework was completely bass ackwards.
Cuix1 votesexcept Morello backed him up on his design points several times :v
Yoella5 votesI just figured it was a DoT because he causes the enemies around him to drown like he did, thus sapping their life away little by little.
BastionKross3 votesThe cinematic shows you everything you need to know about Naut:
I mean, even in the animation he gets no respect.
Delimon2 votesthey showed how useless it was in the cinematic as well. . .
Colgate Gator2 votesThe problem I have with it is that you have to use your shield really really smart in order to be able to get its damage out.
Don't take me wrong, it's an interesting mechanic, but in this meta where everyone gets free damage out of their asses with %HP damage and double-triple bonuses, it's quite odd that him, being a tank, his only tanking mechanic is his main damage one, which he loses if he's attacked, and in turn, he isn't that overly tanky without it.
Cindikle1 votesWhat if it worked a little different.
Increase CD to 20 seconds. Shield no longer has a duration. While shield is active, CD cannot go below 10(adjusted by CD) seconds.
This allows him to pre-activate it, get a few hits in. Then later in the fight use it again. With some CDR(does he build that?) it can get pesky.
Another idea, but not for the shield, allow him to use his E on targets stunned by his R. This wont effect his R target though, but those around. Would make his engages quite scary.
Knight Devout1 votesWell, probably because they don't want the ability to scale with AS. When an ability scales with As there are 2 stages:
Take a look at what happened to Skirmisher's Sabre and the Devourer enchant. On hit? well, Warwick with Botrk and Skirmisher OFC. Or Yi, xin Zhao, or any other champion who can abuse the damage by attacking multiple times.
On the other hand, Applying a DoT means that there is both a window of time where the damage is being applied (thus allowing the player to turn around and escape) , and it can also be rewarding without the need to build AS. In fact, Skirmisher Sabre on the PBE no longer deals on-hit damage per attack, but applies a DoT on hit.
TL;DR DoT on hit are healthier for the champion's kit because they cannot abuse attack speed items.
DrMayor1 votesI understand that you cant just make him OP "cough lee sin cough" and you have to give him some counter play . I am really annoyed that even when I catch the other jungler off guard or his health is a little lower . I still have a very hard time killing him and usually the enemy simply runs away or he has enough time for his teammates to come and help him because the damage nautilus is dealing is just too low . Even when i try something offensive its not that great or impactfull especially late game when i am just a tanky wall which the enemy simply ignores me and kill my team mates and then the go after me . Add to that not every game I well have cooperating teammates that can help or make full use of nautilus's CC .
maybe a buff to wits end would slightly improve him. But i think a straight buff or better scaling well help him in the long run .