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Kill Rewards are way too high

U R Good At Game··2 votes·309 views

Riot defends the system by saying "We are rewarding players for skill". That is something I agree with. Outplay your opponent, get reward. However, there is a point where I have proven I am leagues better than my laner but riot doesn't stop rewarding you. What does that do? It means as long as you keep vision the JG in low elo and play cheese champs you can become so powerful that no entity on the other team can contest you. How is that skill? If I am support and you leave lane 5-0, yes, you are better than our top BUT you have not proven you are better than our bot so why are you allowed to one shot us and snowball their bot lane who have also proven they aren't more skilled than us?

The early advantage you get for cheesing lane is way too massive right now and has resulted in a meta where you either stomp your opponent 30-1 or get stomped 1-30. Check my NA.OP for evidence. Each and every win AND loss was a result of 1 champ getting massively fed and unstoppable. That is when it becomes no longer skill. When you can press one button and win a teamfight with 0 cognitive function, that is not skill, that is the champion. I do think kills deserve rewards but how powerful your champ can get from that has to be limited. Why get drags when you kill? Towers? no kill. Baron? no kill. Early game kills are currently more important than any OBJ on the map in the current meta because the amount of fed you get allows you to take any OBJ you want to mid game. Leave lane 4-0 and now you can solo dragon while 2v1ing the enemy at the same time cas balance. For reference, when an ADC is so powerful they are solo engaging like a sion ult into our team and winning that is a good measure of when to stop "rewarding" them for "skill".

Alternatively, you don't need to reward champions with "Power". Look at OW, you don't get to one hit any enemy you want just from beating one player. They give you ulti charge that you have to use to win. They give you the tools to win easier while Riot literally gives you the win. As a support player this is beyond irritating as leaving lane 4-0 as a support means jack fucking shit.

16 Comments

Pippen The Short3 votes

Git gud?

U R Good At Game1 votes

Sorry that skill can't defeat math.

Rewt2 votes

OW is a shooter and therefore has vastly different mechanics to a MOBA. Now if you used DOTA or HoN as examples you would have a point, but those games work just like league so the point is moot anyway.

U R Good At Game1 votes

Games tend to clone the each other if one game largely dominates the genre. Look at any MMO than look at WoW.... It took 15 years for development to start on viable non-wow clones. I was hoping maybe the MOBA genre could be differen't and not clone for over a decade but maybe not.

Rewt2 votes

Plenty of MOBAs are different. But you have to understand WHY snowballing happens. In a game where you get gold and levels if you get ahead you will get more gold and levels.

Now to point out something in OW. If you made a character that gets more damage based on kills without deaths and you get 4/0. You will be stronger and do a lot more damage. But because OW doesn't have any systems like that in place snowballing is impossible.

U R Good At Game1 votes

You don't need to reward a player with even more power exponentially. That is why feeding happens. In every elo. Let's look at the grand logic. Player A is more skilled than Player B. For that reason, let's give player A who is defeating player B without an advantage a lead that grows every time he beats someone he has already beaten...

Lets put it in IRL terms. An MMA fighter is beating the shit out of you and your friends jump in to help. But wait a minute, unfortunately for you a rioter is there and give the MMA fight an uzi....That is playing soloQ in a nutshell. Watch a teammate on the other side of the rift get his shit kicked in and by the time you can help him the enemy is so powerful your one shot cas "skill".

The reward for killing does not mean you should therefore one hit most of the enemy team and make any objective on the map incontestable. That is a gift that keeps giving because at that point it's not just a lead. It's towers, it's drags, it's barons, it's rift, it's JG control and all you had to do was beat 1 laner.....logic???

Rewt2 votes

You are looking at this from the wrong perspective.

If player A is more skilled than player B, then he should be rewarded for defeating player B. And to slow snoballing they have diminishing kill return. If a player dies without getting participation in a kill too many times then his gold value tanks. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kill

Now something else that needs to be addressed is how you are playing the game. So lets say the enemy has a fed riven top. If we run in an 1v1 the riven 1 at a time then no fucking shit we are going to get slaughtered. She is ahead and has been rewarded for being a better player than our top laner.

Now we have to play smarter as a team to deal with the riven. Good CC targeting can take her out of the fight immediately and turn it into a 5v4. And we know who the strong person on the enemy team is and can focus them out. Especially since they are in the lead they are going to most likely play point (In front).

Also there are 4 other people in the game. So they get the top lane ahead. well then the jungler should be focusing on getting the other 2 lanes ahead. Its not just a static environment where if riven gets 3/0 she wins. Its a game where people make mistakes and teamplay can destroy better players who are disorganized.

Also lets not forget if you get ahead you cant just 1 shot people. And if you are a champ that can. That means you are also blowing all your Cooldowns in the process and your team should be able to make a 1 for 1 trade and get shutdown gold onto the whole team which gives them a bump increasing an even lane ahead of the opposing lane.

So in the end you are looking at the game through a static environment instead of taking into account the fact that the players are real people. Not robots playing the most efficient way possible. I win plenty of games where an enemy laner gets fed. We just huddle under the towers and defend until we catch up.

U R Good At Game1 votes

Exactly, the basis of your argument is teamplay. This is why riot e-sports works so well. However, this doesn't happen in soloQ. Let alone in elos below diamond. I see it it from bronze to plat. SoloQ and teamplay are 2 different beasts. So THEORETICALLY you use teamplay to beat fed people but in actuality your team just gets tilted when they die the tenth time 1v1ing a fed a guy and loses.

Rewt1 votes

the basis of my argument is my experience with the game. Im not an LCS player. My MMR is silver. And guess what. Teamplay happens most games for me. We are able to play as a team.

The fact that you arent able to shotcall and convince players to follow your lead isnt reason to completely change the way the game works in a way that would make the game unrecognizable from a gameplay mechanics aspect.

U R Good At Game1 votes

Making it so getting 2 kills on a trash player doesn't make you able to 1v3 is unrecognizable??? Again, Look at my NA.OP, every game is just a game of someone feeding their ass off whether it is on my team and we lose or the enemy and we win. Why? Because I either get my ADC 2 kills and we end up going like 10-0 OR their mid/top gets 2 kills and goes 10-0. Using your logic this should not be able to happen over 10 games in a row because "you arent able to shotcall" as you so put it. So why is the enemy team doing it? Why is my team doing it multiple games ina row? Oh, because it's low elo and there isn't teamplay, that's right. Losing lane = JG fault and instead of teamplay let's bitch at the JG while the rest of the team bitches at the feeder bitching. I'll even link it for ya: Every game someone on one of the team feeds, click for proof.

It's not about removing kill rewards, it's about making them REWARDS not wins. There is a reason late game champs have the shittiest win rates and tiers right now, the games are long over by the time you can scale unless the enemy are made up of apes.

Rewt1 votes

Most of your games are over 30min which means you should be able to comeback if you are behind. I do it all the time.

U R Good At Game1 votes

I mean I just looked at your history and you either feed or get fed just as I said happens. No need to lie. Also important to note what is a thresh going to do against a 7-0 say annie. I can hook, lantern in our secondary engage and box exhaust her but at the end of the day if no one on my team can kill her without getting nuked what did i do? Again, requires all 5 members of a team to be on the same page and even then it requires no one else to deal good damage on their team. Not a relastic expectation of soloQ.

Not to mention the games you did poorly on but still won weren't becasue you turned them around. Looking through them you had a asshole fed champion on your team who kicked their laners teeth in all game and carried. For example you went 4-6 on kayne, a hyper carry. Luckily for you, there was a 13 kill zed AND trist on your team. Pattern repeates itself multiple times in your history reinforcing my statement. Games aren't even these days. One team has these 13-0 players and the other doesn't. I remeber when games were won in the difference of 2-3 kills. It was actually fun than nuking or be nuked.

Rewt1 votes

Funny part is in the Kayn game i was 0/2 in lane. then brought it back. and my supp was 0/3. (it was some troll ass Kayn ADC shit)

The olaf game i was 0/2/0 15min in because grag got a lead and was able to shut me down early.

Jhin game that I won i got shit stomped in lane. Like 0/4/0. Came back.

Starting to see a pattern? I come back A LOT. rarely do i just get fed off my ass early and just snowball to the win.

(also ignore that Yi game. I was lagging my ass off in a duo and couldnt do anything XD)

U R Good At Game1 votes

It's easy to come back when you have a hella fed team.... I don't see the pattern if you add the condition: Games you come back which no one on your team was fed. Feeding then having a 5-0 zed allow you to come back is not YOU coming back.

FlameanatorX2 votes

Except you're leaving out a very important thing. Scaling. Some champions are early-game champions that fall-off, some are late-game hypercarries, and some are in-between.

If you don't give snowballing style rewards to champions that get ahead, then scaling champions will always be better. If you give too much snowballing, then the early game ones are too strong. The key is to balance the snowballing such that all types of champions are viable. Many do currently think the balance is too skewed towards early-game champions, but what you're talking about just doesn't make sense.

U R Good At Game1 votes

"fall-off". The current meta erased fall off. Remember when lee sin "fell off"? Now he is all game. Grabbing a couple kills in this meta gives you the power to hold the game in your hands because it's SOLO QUEUE. This isn't team play, this isn't LCS. There is no use teammate A to bait enemy, Teammate B switches focus, Teammate C holds turret aggro, NO! SOLOQ.

They key is to make it so 2 kills doesn't = one shot. Look at my match history, we either slaughter or get slaughtered because 2 kills = gg. NA.OP.GG

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