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the moment sion had even an ounce of outplay potential, riot removed it

Ben Sharpio··1 votes·753 views

because of riot's "perfect rework" fantasy. Riot has failed so many fucking times in reworking their champs, they refuse to add any type of new mechanic to sion's counterplay-infested kit, so that whenever they ruin a champion in a rework they can say HEY GUYS WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING LOOK AT SION!!!!!1

And it works because people think that sion is "balanced". BALANCED translates to SHIT in this game. Look at Ornn and see how awesomely balanced and FUN it is! Oh wait he's shit too because he gets annihilated by every other champion in his class.

How to beat sion:

Dont be a retard. This is why he thrives in omega low elo. Because people are undeniably horrible at this game and sion is a noob trap champion and we're ok with that for some reason.

Back to the point: Sion was able to Cancel his Q mid animation and redirect it. The properties of his Q remained the same. In a sense that his Q could still be cancelled by CC and what not.

Riot was like: We don't want any mechanical complexity in sion's gameplay/kit so we're removing it. And GONE. just like that. Any outplay potential he had was obliterated with a reddit thread that made it to front page.

and sion is balanced around low elo so its great to know he will forever be trapped in this shitty state.

CONTEXT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBYY9jAWtPA&feature=youtu.be

26 Comments

Catastrop10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Corsair Sion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GlP36pob,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-18T15:18:06.434+0000)

Back to the point: Sion was able to Cancel his Q mid animation and redirect it.

That's not mechanical complexity, that's straight up bs.

Ben Sharpio2 votes

how?

BeatzBoyFTW3 votes

Cz it's a bug that shouldn't have existed?

Slythion6 votes

Sion was able to Cancel his Q mid animation and redirect it

That sounds like when cass could show she was ulting in one direction but could flip it to a completely different direction. That's a huge clarity issue that Riot has never been a fan of, Sion is no exception

Ben Sharpio1 votes

Sion's version is still counterplay infested. Costed double the mana, and you had to be standing still not outputting any damage for the entire duration of BOTH Q casts. The reliability of cass's version was monumentally better than this.

Slythion3 votes

and Cassiopeia's bug was at the cost of using her flash.

The very fact that you resulted in a "cass's version was a worse abuse case" shows that Sion's was indeed an abuse case. It's a clarity issue that exploited a bug, not an intentional design to his kit. Of course it's gonna get removed, just like Cassiopeia. Both were bugs that could be exploited through skill at the cost of something, both get removed.

Not every champion can be a super duper skill expressive champ, nor do most people want it to be that way. Sion is a great tank with a great design, 90% of his skill is in his positioning and timing w/ macro game knowledge. If you want a micro-play champion I suggest you check out the assassin class

doubleguac1 votes

Sion's version is still counterplay infested.

The whole point of Sion is that his abilities are heavily broadcasted but very strong if they land.

Even if they dodge or interrupt your Q, you've either zoned them or soaked up CC that would be more valuable on a higher priority target.

I'm not going to pretend Sion's in a great spot, but I don't think his kit is fundamentally broken. He certainly doesn't need to be able to exploit a glitch to suddenly change the direction of his Q mid charge. That's bonkers.

Darkdemon6536 votes

I'm not seeing the problem with fixing a bug.

Ben Sharpio5 votes

fix riven then. No exceptions

Darkdemon6534 votes

[{quoted}](name=Corsair Sion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GlP36pob,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-09-18T15:47:24.288+0000)

fix riven then. No exceptions

I couldn't agree more.

super duper top1 votes

Riven has no bugs though. All of her anim cancels are coded into her kit.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

No, it's a bug that Riot chose not to fix after being affected by many QQ tears from dem Riven mains.

super duper top1 votes

No, riot add in animation cancels for her by themselves, hence why she got a new one with her e q a few patches back.

Tenth Leper1 votes

I couldn't agree more with your agreement.

Colgate Gator2 votes

Sion is in a good spot right now, just because you can't play him for shit and had to rely on a bug it doesn't mean he's unviable.

Kloqdq2 votes

I mean I think Sion is fine but he is on the weaker end of things for the tanks. Does he need a buff? Yes. But is he bad? No, far from it. Sion and Ornn are just on the right side of how a tank should be and not on the Sej or Maokai side of having the whole pie and a cake to boot.

KoKoboto1 votes

I think Ornn is good. It's just that the pay off for his highly telegraphed and slow abilities is literally nothing. Like... NOTHINGGGGGGGGGGG. Just buff his numbers and remove the delay off E that's so fucking lame considering the enemy also has an indicator of the AoE and how his Q is so telegraphed...

Perhaps some good buffs for Sion would to give him CC immunity when he's nearing the end of a fully charged Q. Also making his shorter Q be a bit more useful in damage and slow strength.

Iota Theta1 votes

Ornn is good, his impact just isn't what most people are used to from a tank now, since he has low damage later in the game. But to be able to manage an ult knockup into Q-E (or E into a wall) and lock the enemy team down that way, it feels amazing.

Ornn is what a tank ultimately should be like in terms of feel, not like Zac and them who have CC, durabilty, and damage.

Anags1 votes

Zac doesn't have all of that now though. He's actually pretty much just tons of cc now.

Iota Theta1 votes

True, but he did.

KoKoboto1 votes

Well tanks shouldn't be doing that much damage unless the requirements to pull off that damage are like more. I've played Ornn jungle and I've landed that combo a bunch and it's just yeah okay for me. Reason being most of the time that damage wasn't even much... Yes most tanks should not have damage because most tanks are very reliable like Zac, Mao'Kai, Sejuani, Rammus, Malphite / old sunfire where it's just great damage for being close.

If Ornn wasn't so conditional or was more reliable I'd be fine with his stuff dealing no damage, but he has arguably more requirements than Sion yet does less damage.

I feel tanks should be slow like Sion but have the ability to do crushing damage / CC but of course we can have different play styles. Things like Mao'Kai, Malphite, Nautilus, Nunu, Amumu, Sejuani, who just mash abilities off CD and are so reliable without thinkin are bad (Rammus kinda).

Things like Sion, Galio, Braum, Poppy, Shen, Tahm Kench are good because they have to think about every ability use and don't spam all their abilities off CD.

I think a good direction for tank balance would to make some tankier but take away some of their easy mash abilities for stronger but perhaps not as reliable things.

Iota Theta1 votes

I almost feel like he has a bit more reliability than Sion, since Sion has to actually channel his Q and has to ult from a large distance for the best result. Sion's biggest impact is his long charge Q that can be interrupted but can knock up multiple targets and a stun with a duration based on charge distance. Ornn, I feel, has an easier time CCing multiple targets when it comes to teamfights, since his abilites can't be stopped as well by the enemy.

His damage is decent early but falls off quick, and the focus is then on the CC, which I'm completely ok with.

I think we're so accustomed to tanks having pretty decent damage, which contributes to the feeling of Ornn being weak. Also things like, it's usually not the greatest idea to ult in the middle of the team, since one CC and you can miss the headbutt.

But I agree overall, make them tankier, less spammy and less reliable, and probably cut their damage. I don't want every tank to have damage and unreliability like Sion, for example, but they do need less reliabilty overall. I have a feeling if Maokai had less reliability overall, his W (a very great and potentially healthy anti mobilty CC, if his kit had a bit more room for failure).

Slack King1 votes

Ive seen tilterella play sion. Hes a monster

SeanGoku1 votes

That was clearly a bug. and needed to be fixed. End of story.

Elkington VI1 votes

Sion has plenty of outplay potential, at least more than most immobile melees do. I would say he has it pretty good in comparison, but he's still not without his problems.

The only thing Sion needs imo is some synergy when it comes to his full tank build-pathing. Due to his minuscule ratios being all over the place, he's not really rewarded for building full tank, because none of his abilities scale with defensive stats. Switching his AP ratio on W with a bonus HP ratio and/or switching his E to scale with armor or MR would be a nice start for rewarding him for building full tank (plus it would accommodate his infinite scaling mechanic).

As it stands, he becomes nothing more than a CC bot late game (when built full tank) dependent on the ADC in order to threaten tanky frontliners, while most other tanks bring more damage (while also being much easier to play) because it scales with what they actually build.

Cho'gath's ult damage got changed to scale with bonus HP, so I don't see why Sion's shield can't receive similar treatment. Sion doesn't really benefit from building AP, so I don't understand why it exists currently.

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