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Honestly, the main issue with the 1 second on Zed ult is...

Desiderium··2 votes·1,158 views

It prevents you from using R-Back as Orianna is ulting you after you ult. You are DESTINED to lose that machup now unless you find some other way to bait her ulti. You no longer have the tactical, skillful choice and freedom.

You can't use W either since that would take you too far away from her to dodge her ult to be able to apply your damage to her, especially your passive. Not to mention the shadow no longer travels fast enough for you to be able to dodge her ult after you ult.

And that's just Ori. Imagine Galio, Lissandra.

Riot listen: I get that you're trying to make Zed dedicate himself to his engages, but you are going about it the wrong way. Sure it accomplishes that to an extent, but it also removes a ton of his mechanics and ability. You don't remove choice. This isn't proper gameplay design.

Not the first time Riot reduced Zed's skill cap. The other time was when they reworked his ult. But damn these are heavy reductions. I'm really finding this champion unsatisfying to play now. You are preventing people from showing off their mechanical prowess with these changes, ESPECIALLY this 1 second thing.

20 Comments

Drunk Rummate9 votes

Holy crap are you trying to imply that there's counterplay and counterpicks for Zed outside of Malzahar and Lissandra now?

Wow this nerf was even smarter than I thought.

Desiderium1 votes

{quoted}

Holy crap are you trying to imply that there's counterplay and counterpicks for Zed outside of Malzahar and Lissandra now?

Wow this nerf was even smarter than I thought.

They're what I'd call "artificial counterpicks." They "counter" him because of forced mechanics (imagine how many matchups previous Zed players would lose if they just decided to not R back within a second and then return.) which is not fair design.

Drunk Rummate5 votes

Not fair design? How is it fair that Zed is allowed to dodge Oriannas ultimate entirely without sacrificing any kill pressure on his ult simply by swapping back immediately before going back in?

If Fizz goes in to do damage with playful/trickster and I wait for him to land before ulting, that's fair for both players. Fizz had the choice to save his E to dodge my ult which has an obvious animation and windup. As Zed you can use your W shadow to gapclose and deal damage, and use the invulnerability frames of your R to dodge ults. You can go in with your R and use your W to escape skillshots. You have a TON of counterplay options available, and the delaying of a single option by 1 second is NOT unfair in the slightest.

Desiderium1 votes

{quoted}

Not fair design? How is it fair that Zed is allowed to dodge Oriannas ultimate entirely without sacrificing any kill pressure on his ult simply by swapping back immediately before going back in?

If Fizz goes in to do damage with playful/trickster and I wait for him to land before ulting, that's fair for both players. Fizz had the choice to save his E to dodge my ult which has an obvious animation and windup. As Zed you can use your W shadow to gapclose and deal damage, and use the invulnerability frames of your R to dodge ults. You can go in with your R and use your W to escape skillshots. You have a TON of counterplay options available, and the delaying of a single option by 1 second is NOT unfair in the slightest.

Sure you can ult when she ults and dodge it...but what smart Orianna player is going to let you force her to ult before YOU ult? Zed had the choice as a strong duelist to force her to use it defensively and then HE had the choice to use any available tool to dodge it. No longer possible.

He has now become more binary and unsatisfying to play as a mechanically gifted player.

Is this not understandable?

IcyPepper5 votes

Last time I checked, Zed has a point and click ultimate that makes him untargetable and you can't dodge it.

Can't dodge Orianna's ult because of this 1 second delay? Now you know how she feels.

And if her slow on her W is too much for you, just build QSS.

Paragon Fury3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kinky Ninja Boy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gjv22deV,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-14T19:30:12.896+0000)

Sure you can ult when she ults and dodge it...but what smart Orianna player is going to let you force her to ult before YOU ult? Zed had the choice as a strong duelist to force her to use it defensively and then HE had the choice to use any available tool to dodge it. No longer possible.

He has now become more binary and unsatisfying to play as a mechanically gifted player.

Is this not understandable?

Oh, its perfectly understandable.

Understandable because they gave more Champions the option to react to his R, rather than praying that they have Hourglass or are one of the few Champions that have a skill that reacts/animates fast enough to catch Zed as he uses R.

Drunk Rummate1 votes

I understand what you're saying but you're wrong. Zed can still force her to use it and he still has the tools to dodge it.

Your R still gives you a moment where you are untargetable. I've used this to dodge Orianna/Cassiopeia ults, Ahri charms, etc. It's really not hard you just watch for their animation and then you click on them. You force them to use it by getting in their face with W and an item active like bilge/yoummus.

Alternatively you can still use your W shadow at any point after ulting. Before you ult, throw down your W in a safe location and dodge their ability with that.

Mathlete8641 votes

{quoted}

Not fair design? How is it fair that Zed is allowed to dodge Oriannas ultimate entirely without sacrificing any kill pressure on his ult simply by swapping back immediately before going back in?

If Fizz goes in to do damage with playful/trickster and I wait for him to land before ulting, that's fair for both players. Fizz had the choice to save his E to dodge my ult which has an obvious animation and windup. As Zed you can use your W shadow to gapclose and deal damage, and use the invulnerability frames of your R to dodge ults. You can go in with your R and use your W to escape skillshots. You have a TON of counterplay options available, and the delaying of a single option by 1 second is NOT unfair in the slightest.

His Q would put fizz behind her and thus he "dodges" orianna ult

Kãtãrinã4 votes

By reduction of skillcap you mean made the cap larger. Now he lost safety it is harder to do flash plays and such. watch redmercys video. it explains the changes pretty well.

Hinro Honato1 votes

That's a bad thing why? An insanely safe high damage assassin loses a bit of safety. oh no.

Kãtãrinã2 votes

Ddin't say it was bad, said his skillcap increased

SlytherinUmbreon4 votes

Breaking news, an assassin is countered by CC. Welcome to how Zed's matchups should have worked before, but didn't.

Laisenberg3 votes

get a qss zed

SlytherinUmbreon1 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPCfoCVCx3U If Faker does it, everyone else can too.

LoLKiru2 votes

{quoted}

get a qss zed

You could also take cleanse if you're really THAT worried about getting CC'd since it removes any and all CC / debuffs except for suppression and knockup (I think cleanse removes Malzahar's E too, but not his ult).

Matezoide3 votes

This is raising his skillcap. Now you have to think before ulting, and leaves room so the other player can outplay you and vice-versa.

Zed Ulting and then leaving before his target can even cast his Ult isnt an outplay....you cant outplay someone that, by default, is physically incapable of retaliating.

SEKAI3 votes

Assassins should always earn their escape after their engage, not being given, and their engages should be committed.

That has always been Zed's problem since his design philosophy simply doesn't include that, but that doesn't mean we should come to expect and accept it as a new standard, no.

Nameless Voice2 votes

How do you think nearly every other champion feels playing against Zed?

As Zed, you're destined to lose the matchup vs Orianna?

How many squishy, mana-using mage champions are destined to lose against Zed?

Moussetracks1 votes

How about this? Ill play Velkoz, and you play old Zed. You tell me its fair that, when I save my E for when it's possible you're about to ult me (and you do), and I try to time my E so that it goes down exactly when you hit the ground, but I'm the tiniest fraction off, you can get E, Q, R off because your abilities have no cast time.

I had a game like this. Each time I was ulted I was just a fraction of a second off on my E timing, and it went down a tiiiiiny bit late. I'm talking like, a quarter to a half second late. Zed would just roll his fingers, QER, hit all his abilities because of it, and get out scott free while I had to wait for my death via deathmark trigger.

"Just get better with timing your E."

No. I refuse to say 'I have to be absolutely perfect in order to survive laning against you'. If I get a kill on zed, cool. I can go back and buy mana regen maybe so I can match his resourceless waveclear. Or I can buy another cloth... oh wait I started cloth armor because your zed and nothing else useful to AP bulids out of it. Meanwhile, if you get a single kill, I might as well say that my laning phase is over because the amount of tools you have to deal with any situation in your kit is INSANE.

1000angrybees1 votes

Just build QSS/Zhonya's

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