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Personally, I love every single one of the Tank reworks and don't get why people dislike them

Malicious Metal··62 votes·4,962 views

Compared to other instances of class updates all of the reworked champions were changed for the better in one way or the other while retaining their core aspects and gaining new toys to make playing them more enjoyable.

Sejuani Probably the most controversial of the bunch as she was released overtuned. After spamming her in ranked and boosting a 71% win rate with her AFTER the countless nerfs I can safely say that she's by far my favorite of the bunch.

She actually FEELS satisfying to me, especially landing good R's and shattering the opposition. Her E active is a bit meh but it's alright when you get that badass W and the feel of being a Barbarian Warlord charging into battle.

And most importantly; She got herself a NICHE! She's no longer a generalist. She's the ANTI-Burst Initiator that works great with follow up CC, AKA FIGHTERS.

Her passive is unique in a way that it's her only tank steroid and only lasts for 4 seconds at the start of a fight, making her susceptible to sustained dps and follow up damage. She's great at initiating and her overall theme was enhanced by this rework!

Zac His issue was a release Darius one. People weren't used to his new abilities.

I played him the least amount of times out of the three reworks but he's still super fun. He retained his satisfying E engage and his disruption is far superior to old Zac. His R in particular is such a game changing ultimate and using it to enable a combo combo feels bloody awesome. His Q is wonky but fun to use and his voice change when below 30% HP is really funny (especially to tilt enemies when the small blob makes his great escape while giggling uncontrollably)

Maokai Support Maokai is getting shafted next patch anyways, so disregard that weird aspect about his rework. Maokai was returned to the Forest, having become a pretty great Tank jungler.

He isn't just A Jungler, he is THE Jungle. He brings a ton of control to the forest in form of his Saplings and his ultimate working best in these narrow pathways of the Jungle while also being one of the best tanks when it comes to surviving low CD spammy mages like Ryze, Cassiopeia and other spell slingers.

His ultimate promotes smart positioning and creative flanking and he's one of the more badass tanks in terms of impact as a 2.6 second root is nothing to laugh at.

Honestly, I don't see how people don't like the tank reworks when they've all brought new tools to the Battlefield that's Summoner's rift while also giving them MORE ways to outplay and actually giving them Skill Expression. I personally think it's the most successful class update so far and every complaint I've seen so far seems to be unfounded and not really backed up with a lot of arguments.

But maybe it's just me. I actually enjoy playing all of them, even though I main a champion that is neither super beefy or brings CC to the table

http://i.imgur.com/R8XxJdo.jpg

142 Comments

Ahristocats29 votes

"sejuani mains hate her rework" no shit, which champion rework had his mains loving it?

Sion mains insulted riot for what they did to him, same for Poppy old mains but then new mains appeared and took the champion as their kit completly changed new sejuani does what she was supposed to do before, unreliable damage CC and initiation "she only has 2 spells" what a fcking joke, her Q is a dash that CC, her W deals so much damage (until maybe late game because of armor but this is intended because she's a tank)it slows and add potentially 2 E stacks, her ult is a giant nuke with counterplay "she can't be played with ranged champions" lmao, she can stack E so fast if she plays well with W, she doesn't need ranged champions "she's bad at initiating" dafuq? i have to teach you that your champion has a ranged stun, a dash with knock up, and slow immunity? for real? "i can't build liandry anymore" sucks friend, maybe you should consider once that running around and dealing tons of magic damage+%hp damage was not healthy for the game anymore

nothing to see here, it's Shaco rework again, mains crying on the board, same for i don't know how many rework

500000000000000040 votes

I think Warwick mains liked the rework? And a bunch of small scale reworks were received well, too.

Ahristocats6 votes

{quoted}

And a bunch of small scale reworks were received well, too.

yeah but i'm not taking in consideration small scale reworks

warwick is one of the only one even galio was not well received as his old mains lost what they loved

it's called rework for a reason the champion changes, either you accept it or you don't

i accepted that talon will be massively delayed and cornered around roaming instead of blinking and assassinating an entire team with AOE damage in a fraction of second i prefered old talon, but new talon is healthier that's it

no need to go on a "this rework is a failure" because you can't run around killing an entire team with sejuani W now

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

?? what old talon... But this Talon is way more fun IMO (i played old, and still play the new). Old remind me of Wukong if he can OS he's great, if not almost useless.

Ahristocats2 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHDqI4ySCYk

old talon felt WAY more like an assassin

especially due to the blink

Ralanr8 votes

A blink that didn't have much counterplay.

Mcprowlington12 votes

it's called rework for a reason the champion changes, either you accept it or you don't

Riot makes threads to specifically ask for feedback from mains of the character being reworked. That's because it is a goal to produce something that appeals in the same way to those people. Therefore, the rework is a failure in at least some measure if they didn't succeed in that goal.

Ralanr5 votes

Aren't those after the reworks have been put on the PBE?

LankPants5 votes

They've done them before as well, they did that before the mage updates. Unfortunately however they completely ignored the threads and just did what ever the fuck they felt like anyway.

I'd still say even them putting up the Sejuani thread does show that what Janna is saying is basically bullshit though. Riot clearly wanted this rework to appeal to old mains, and it failed to do so, so I really don't think calling it a failure is unfair.

Ralanr6 votes

Thing is, these boards are often terrible in terms of balance ideas (hell with Cass half wanted a snake and half wanted a poison mage without explaining what that was) so I can't blame Riot for ignoring the boards.

I don't see how Riot wanted the rework to appeal to older mains. I don't remember them ever saying that.

LankPants4 votes

https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/54XUoGEF-sejuani-feedback-thread?

The fact that they opened this thread when mains were complaining about how garbage the rework was shows that they certainly cared.

Besides do you think Riot would overlook the appeal of the rework to older mains anyway? That's just a dumb move.

Thing is, these boards are often terrible in terms of balance ideas

They do far better on direction than balance. What the boards have been saying Sej needs all along is more power on W and R, less power on E and passive, specifically shatter. Does that sound particularly wrong to you?

Ralanr2 votes

And that was after she was released on the PBE.

LankPants3 votes

I know it was, the point is that if they didn't care at all what Sejuani mains thought they wouldn't have even made it. They could have just forced through what they had when they put Sej on the PBE, it would have been far worse for everyone though.

This is a clear case of the mains understanding what needed to happen better than Riot did. Can you imagine Sej with 25% max HP damage on her passive and an even lower damage W? Do you think that would be better to play as or against for anyone?

Ralanr2 votes

Ok, ok, ok, it was my understanding that you were arguing that they were asking mains before the rework and those got ignored.

My mistake.

LankPants3 votes

The only time when I can remember them doing that was the mage update where they decided they didn't like the feedback they got and ignored it. Incidentally how we ended up with Zyra being an utterly cancerous support.

Funny how that goes isn't it, the community is actually fairly on point when it comes to direction for changes even if they're not always for balance.

Ahristocats6 votes

can you stop?

riot threads are not the entire community, this board IS A VOCAL MINORITY that's it

mordekaiser rework went through even if certainlyt got -1000 downvotes on his thread because nobody understood his logical point, that mordekaiser had to be balanced around botlane because an excessive amount of his solo lane match up was decided in selection or through jungle presence and thus mordekaiser could not solo lane without his kit and identity to be massively changed (slow moving no cc billion of damage champion)

This board doesn't understand JACKSHIT, them telling riot that the rework is a failure is a joke and i'm glad that riot doesn't take the board to balance their game

Sejuani rework is healthier, has window of power, has counterplay, has uniqueness, has a niche, has CC and unreliable damage it just prefectly fit to every goal of this tank rework

but then you have sejuani mains of the board crying because they can't build liandry anymore, they can't do blablablabla

Good riddance, just stop maining your champion like old Sion mains, and new people will main her instead of you

LankPants15 votes

Good riddance, just stop maining your champion like old Sion mains, and new people will main her instead of you

I'd love to know how you twist and contort all logic to actually arrive at the point where you think this is a good or acceptable outcome.

Last I checked most AD/Tank Sion mains were actually OK with the rework, it was mostly just the AP Sion mains who were upset. The thing there was that it would have been utterly impossible to create a single modern kit that appealed to all Sion players. Riot also left elements of Sion's kit in purposefully to appeal to mains, his W remained functionally unchanged, his passive functions a lot like his old ult and even his E still feels a lot like his old stun in terms of use cases.

The Sion rework was a strong one BECAUSE it maintained a surprising amount of appeal to its original mains. Same goes for Poppy and WW where several of the original kit elements were maintained. Weaker reworks like Galio just do away with the majority of the old source, new Galio feels nothing at all like old Galio.

The problem with Sej's rework is that it was a huge shift in how she feels. It didn't maintain the Wall Slamming, Low HP High Resists or Bloodhunter with multihit suppressing ult of the Poppy and WW reworks. Instead all the emphasis of the kit has been shifted into her E. I've always said that I think the new kit can work, but Riot needs to shift her power back to give her more of the feel of old Sej, the E and shatter being so strong and W and R being so weak actively get in the way of this.

Ahristocats2 votes

i won't argue again for the 11th time on why sejuani's new spells are better

if you don't like sejuani, don't play her new sejuani is healthier and that's all that matters when it comes to taking care of league's balance,

you want to take your personal feeling and hate new sejuani? well let me take my personal feeling too, i hated old sejuani, i hated everthing about her, she was one of the most bullshit champion in this damn fucking game i'm glad her AOE almost instant CC is gone i'm glad her 1k+ aoe damage while running around is gone i'm glad she can't buy liandry anymore

i love playing against this new sejuani, is she broken? i don't care it can be changed with numbers, her passive is a clear window of power, her W can be dodged and i dodged it multiple time

change your main, that's all and that's how it was always with mains you think that old sion mains are still playing sion, le lol, just le lol

LankPants14 votes

you want to take your personal feeling and hate new sejuani? well let me take my personal feeling too, i hated old sejuani, i hated everthing about her, she was one of the most bullshit champion in this damn fucking game

Do you know what champion I hate playing against? Thresh.

Everything on his kit is BS. He's massively overloaded. He's overpowered. His Lantern is by far my least favourite ability in the game.

Do I think he should have his kit torn apart and be butchered for his mains? No. Why? Because I have a basic level of human empathy and wouldn't want to see the champ destroyed for people who do enjoy him.

Keep on going though, you sound like a self entitled 12 year old.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

He's massively overloaded.

way less overloaded than most of supports

{quoted}

He's overpowered.

{quoted}

His Lantern is by far my least favourite ability in the game.

it has clear counterplay, every spells of thresh has counterplay, lantern cannot be picked while being cc'ed, can be stopped by displacement, and if a warden steps in no one can take the lantern anymore due to the size of the champion

you're massively biased, thresh is way healthier than old sejuani, he's overpowered because of 1 patch and was balanced since 2014

thersh has nothing to do with old sejuani and will never get reworked

{quoted}

Keep on going though, you sound like a self entitled 12 year old.

lol sure i have more understanding of this game than you will ever be and you think you're not 12 when you just put in your personal feelings instead of the state of health of a champion [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

LankPants8 votes

you're massively biased

.

you want to take your personal feeling and hate new sejuani? well let me take my personal feeling too, i hated old sejuani, i hated everthing about her, she was one of the most bullshit champion in this damn fucking game i'm glad her AOE almost instant CC is gone i'm glad her 1k+ aoe damage while running around is gone i'm glad she can't buy liandry anymore

Whatever you say buddy.

At least I didn't make a thread trying to claim Thresh wasn't OP at the start of the patch just because I play him. I'd advise you google self bias bias.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

At least I didn't make a thread trying to claim Thresh wasn't OP at the start of the patch just because I play him. I'd advise you google self bias bias.

i didn't make a thread i made a post and that was BEFORE playing the patch

at this point just stfu because it's starting to become annoying

you saw that thresh had nothing to do with old sejuani and started to come out with random arguments

it's very hilarious

LankPants10 votes

at this point just stfu because it's starting to become annoying

The last resort of someone who has no coherent argument left, if you had one to start with.

you saw that thresh had nothing to do with old sejuani and started to come out with random arguments

I've never seen the point of an argument fly so far over someones head. I'm not sure if you're a little slow or just not trying, but I'd advise you read over it again and see what I was actually arguing.

If you can't separate out your own biases for your champ then just replace 'Thresh' with Kalista and 'Lantern' with R, the argument should still make sense, abet she's hardly overpowered now.

The point I was making was that it makes no sense to just rework champs with no regard for their mains and justify it with "but I didn't like them". I do not know how you managed to miss that, it wasn't obscured or anything.

Ralanr32 votes

Warwick's rework went over so well because they had a good theme to enhance upon in an obvious direction (werewolf hunter) while other reworks focused on the basic themes that Riot felt weren't well presented and rebuilt a new champion from the ground up to better represent that theme (Sion: Undead Warrior).

Or because Warwick had such a small playerbase that nobody really cared.

Honestly Warwick's original kit did its job, just in an archaic way. The new one has the same basic job, only modernized.

Need Gold 4 Tent2 votes

my theme for old sion was "i flash, you die" which I'll admit was quite unfun for the poor recepients. as a result, i hated what riot did to him, but at the same time also like the new sion as an interesting new champion. however, it's been gutting after gutting, my unconventional AP champs of MasterYi Sion Tristana, and i'm kinda worried for Malphite now, him being one of the oldest champs in the game (yes, i main him as an ap carry).

50000000000000004 votes

I think we all have some unhealthy mechanic that we enjoyed but got removed. For me that was the old item 3512. That was so unhealthy for the game.

Pater Gascoigne3 votes

I still miss 90 % dodge chance on Jax. Those were the times

Lajinn53 votes

I miss the good old days of AP xin zhao 1v1'ing turrets

Mike Kachowski3 votes

{quoted}

I think we all have some unhealthy mechanic that we enjoyed but got removed. For me that was the old item 3512. That was so unhealthy for the game.

this, so much I really really miss the not quite so old times with runeglaive gangplank

50000000000000001 votes

I've never heard of that one before. I guess it's like barrels, but without barrels, and magical?

Need Gold 4 Tent3 votes

Q crits like normal, but does magic damage. He builds item 3087 item 3031 item 3072 item 3078 runeglaive and boots, then can crit you for 1000+ magic damage on Q. Then if you build MR, his autos still crit for physical damage at nearly the same amount. The true hybrid, that one.

Mcprowlington5 votes

You're answering complaints about how the champion feels to play with points about balance and tuning. It doesn't matter how good her two spells are, if it feels like she only has two spells then she feels less involved. Riot could make a champion with a single ability and balance it, it'd just be a terrible champion to play.

lmao, she can stack E so fast if she plays well with W, she doesn't need ranged champions

Doesn't matter, it's really silly that it feels as though you aren't getting 100% of your champion because your team only picks squishy ranged carries.

maybe you should consider once that running around and dealing tons of magic damage+%hp damage was not healthy for the game anymore

I mean i haven't really heard anyone complain about not being able to build Liandrys but if running around and dealing tons of %hp magic damage from building it isn't healthy for the game then why does Amumu's entire play style revolve around that concept?

Atanchan4 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't matter, it's really silly that it feels as though you aren't getting 100% of your champion because your team only picks squishy ranged carries.

I wonder how you would feel playing Drow Ranger. 🤔

TheCharmingCharm1 votes

Kat mains liked her rework :D tbh she probably has one of the most successful reworks.

Ahristocats2 votes

i swear i saw kat mains complaining on the board when she got reworked

i swear i'm sure you can type "katarina rework" on the research bar and find complaining threads

TheCharmingCharm2 votes

well no matter what change is made, there's guna be people crying about it on boards. But there are defiantly more people that like the rework on /r/katarinamains :P

Mcprowlington18 votes

I used to feel that if I sat in the middle of the fight I was contributing. The big damage on her W, the E, and god forbid you didn't use your ult to engage and can whip it out in melee range.

Now If i'm in the middle of a teamfight I don't really know what to do. W hits like a wet noodle, ult feels like it should be a basic ability (probably the least satisfying ult in the game, and how the fuck does it anti-syngergize with her E? this feels fucking terrible.), I pretty much never get to actually proc my E and if i do running around for the shatter is a terribly frustrating experience. The previous Sej felt like the barbarian war leader teamfighting champ Riot promised to deliver. This absolutely does not.

Ralanr4 votes

The problem with her previous W contribution was that it didn't require much thought or planning. Basically dive in a stay in for the full duration as you catch people in your personal blizzard.

LankPants7 votes

And the new one does? You just point it in the direction of the guy you want to hit and forget.

That's before mentioning her E, which you just mindlessly spam out on anyone you see with 4 stacks.

Ralanr2 votes

Considering now you have to aim her W over just standing close to them, yes.

Not a fan of her new E though.

LankPants3 votes

I actually find it far easier to land her new W than her old one TBH, if anything it's more mindless.

The difference is in the range. New Ws range is around that of an ADC auto while old Ws was a melee auto. It's really not hard to hit the AoE, it's certainly not like a Karthus Q where you have to actively think about it or anything. It really is a fire and forget spell when you consider how hard it is to dodge without a dash anyway, and if you trade Sej's W for a dash that's literally always worth.

With old W you had to persistently focus on keeping yourself in melee range and not missing the ticks and if you were really optimising you had to use the AA reset to get an extra AA in which was surprisingly relevant. There's nothing like that for new W, you just use it.

ShadowParker4 votes

What aspects of old Sej made you feel like a barbarian warleader?

Mcprowlington11 votes

A lot of it was in her ult. On a lot of tanks you can initiate and the team won't follow up, or some of them won't be fully committed. When you used her old ult it was a very clear signal to go in and wreck shit. Because of this, i actually felt like i was leading the team whenever I played her.

Despite this playing such a large part in that feeling, I never felt like she was an ult-bot.

Over Innsmouth15 votes

Tank you for your thoughts.

Blue Moon Wolf12 votes

I have found so many champs in that logo that are not tanks, even exuding the ones that are Juggernauts .-.

Blood Mefist5 votes

"Renecton"

EvilUnicornLord3 votes

And it's lacking several tanks that could have fit there.

Poppy to name one.

Lord Desert9 votes

They did 3 updates and all 3 had problems + they overtuned ad hybrid items and nerfed tank items/hptanks... I wouldnt classify this as a failure, but surely not a complete success ether! Havening (ex-)challenger players for testing, preparing this for months and reduced it down from 6-5 to just 3, I honestly expected a bit better quality. I'm not saying that I could fabricate something completely flawless, but Sejuanis passiv and the power in Mao's E should certainly not have been released the way they were.

And to be honest puting most of the powerbugget in only 1-2 abilitys is a rather questionable design choice from my point of view and from a balance perspectiv.

Jbels6 votes

It's not so much about the tank reworks themselves that aggrivate me. It's the fact that many other tanks were made hella weak. The mission statement of the rework was to make tanks tankier but remove damage to compensate. Not only was the damage removed, but tank items were nerfed across the board. AND ON TOP OF THAT, SEJUANI HITS LIKE A TRUCK AND HAS TONS OF CC. What? Meanwhile ADCs and other physical damage dealers get a huge buff in the form of GA being an AD item.

I just got done playing HoTS yesterday. I played 3 games as Diablo, a tank. Not only did I feel nigh unkillable, but I could NEVER kill anybody on my own. Believe me, I tried, and I was punished for it every time through getting killed by my own overextension. But during teamfights, I was a fucking force to be reckoned with. My CC won us teamfights, my damage was relevant enough to actually matter during the fight, and in all 3 games, I got MVP. In a backwards way, it feels like HoTS gets tanks better than Riot does, at least in the case of Diablo. I have yet to try out other tanks

Anidan2 votes

I've played a bit of HotS and for the most part I have to say that they do a couple things better than League does. This is not to denigrate League, but to point out that Riot has a decent source to learn from. For itemization variety they could probably look a bit toward DotA2 and implement items that aren't just stat sticks (which Riot has gotten better about doing), and from HotS you have a pretty good idea of what a tank should do: meaningful damage, but not a serious kill threat in a 1v1, especially if you overextend, but you pack enough durability and control that you will make a good impact on the fight at hand. They are a durable control threat, and that can be very, very important in a game with objectives that get fought over, which is something League and HotS do have in common (even if the relative value is different).

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