You had a precise number which told you how good you are
There were no demotions/promotions
Every game was equally important
Nowdays you have people not caring about a game outcome because they are at certain LP
Ahristocats10 votesi prefered the visible elo system because there was a global ranking
god that was so fun
had 800 elo in s1, and 2174 elo in end of s2, i was among the 2000 best players on euw (league didn't have a lot of players back then) and i could know it thanks to the global ranking that was removed.......
btw, do you have an EUW acc?
as a support main and janna main, i would love supporting an adc yasuo
Warlord Scrap1 votes[{quoted}](name=WTF DARIUS ADC ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ga3tjIKa,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-26T11:24:59.446+0000)
i prefered the visible elo system because there was a global ranking
god that was so fun
had 800 elo in s1, and 2174 elo in end of s2, i was among the 2000 best players on euw (league didn't have a lot of players back then) and i could know it thanks to the global ranking that was removed.......
btw, do you have an EUW acc?
as a support main and janna main, i would love supporting an adc yasuo
A global rankings harder now because thets ove 100 mil accounts. Also they made tiers because it makes you fell like your progressing faster. Its mostly just a mental thing.
Flawless Fetus3 votesBut it doesn't. Maybe they though it would, but it doesn't.
Salson9 votesI don't see why we can't have both. Just let us see the hidden MMR for rating, and use Tiers for rewards.
Elikain1 votesThere's no point because again, LP is the mask that puts everything into perspective: Your climb, your place on the ladder, your ups and downs.
People seeing that you're a Bronze player means something. People seeing that you're at 1200 ELO means absolutely nothing as they'd have to guess how good or bad of a player you are, relative to League's ELO ranking.
Junkο2 votesExcept before you could see what tier you were according to your MMR.
Salson2 votesThe thing is we already have both LP and MMR. All I want is for Rito to show the hidden MMR number.
Elikain1 votesWhy? There has to be a good reason to do so and not just because "i want it" argument. MMR is not important to anyone but the matchmaker which is in charge of finding you a game. All you need to know is that you're in certain Tier and Division and you automatically know how's your standing on a ranked ladder.
Salson3 votesBecause I find withholding information extremely annoying. It's my MMR, and I want to see it.
Elikain4 votesNothing has changed with the addition of LP. It's just a mask that's overlayed on top of ELO. LP does not matter in matchmaking.
LP does nothing more than put your climb and fall into perspective and gives you actual objectives to strive for, regardless of your situation.
Ap Mid Burst6 votesTry telling that to the people who just got premoted, auto filled, and say “LUL IM AT 0LP MID OR FEED”.
Elikain1 votesHow does Autofill relate to League Points at all?
MrryZ1 votesBecause they have 0lp they have protection and don't care about the outcome of the game because they can't be demoted. if they get autofilled and don't wanna play that position they're just going to troll because it won't affect their elo
Elikain1 votesYour ELO is still dropping even if your LP isn't. Your LP is irrelevant because the matchmaker doesn't use LP to find you games. It uses your ELO. So people who intentionally throw games because they can't be demoted are still losing their MMR and then they start seeing less LP for wins and lose more LP for losses. So either they fix their shit and start playing seriously or they are going straight for ELO Hell.
LP is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It's only an indicator of your success that's just a mask put over your ELO. Your ELO is still the big number behind all the matchmaking algorithms and you just don't see it.
Flawless Fetus2 votesExcept for the "I have 0 lp so I can't lose anything, so idgaf" people. Trolls love the LP system. Lol. That affects matchmaking...
Elikain1 votesAnd your argument can't be "trolls use the system too". When you have a legit bad game, your terrible performance (albeit not intentional) also affects matchmaking in a negative way. Because no matter what the system is, there will always be trolls/griefers in the game.
You have people who intentionally troll others and they also face to lose their ELO but they decided it's worth to sacrifice it just to prove some dumb point of theirs that only makes sense to them.
Flawless Fetus1 votesRight, there will always be trolls/grievers. Do you not see how being on 0 LP brings them out, though? After a promotion, you literally have nothing to lose. With the old system, you never hit a "I cant lose elo" threshold.
Elikain1 votesSo you're not denying that trolls exist but you're basically blaming Riot for putting the 0 LP bait out in the open? If the game is plagued with trolls that will look for any opportunity to ruin the game, removing 0 LP bait won't fix anything. It would just make trolls harder to spot.
Secondly, not being demoted from 0 LP immediately after a lost game is irrelevant. Your ELO does drop after lost games even if your LP isn't for a few games. Your ELO determines your LP gains in the future so if you're always throwing games because "you can't be demoted", it will come to a point where you're losing too much LP for losses and not gaining enough for wins.
Essentially, you're digging your own grave for trying to troll people, based on LP mask that doesn't really matter because your ELO still governs your LP gains behind the scenes.
Junkο2 votesYeah I'm so glad I need to 4+ games in a row to climb every time I want to climb a division as opposed to just promoting when I actually deserve to be promoted.
Elikain1 votesYou don't deserve to be promoted an entire Tier/Division after just one game. You need to prove that you actually are able to climb. Otherwise it's really easy to just get a lucky game in, do terribly and get your rank diploma without you actually making an effort in that game.
Furthermore, under the old system, it was so easy to just dangle between two divisions/tiers because there were no requirements to climb up/go down a rank at all. Now, you have to win a few games for your promotion and likewise if you have just entered a new division/tier, at 0 LP you are being shielded for a few games and can't demote if you lose a few.
Junkο3 votesAnd how is getting a few lucky games before to promote different from getting a few lucky games and getting carried during promos despite feeding your ass off?
All this new system has done is made climbing a pain in the ass (especially because the game tries to force you towards 50% winrate) while opening the system up to MMR abuse since your rating is determined by tiers instead of MMR which affects your matchmaking.
Owyn4 votesBut then Riot would have no excuse like "You just had a bad game, totally happens, our matchmaching is working 100% correctly" [slayer-jinx-wink]
Elikain2 votesThere are two ways of your situation happening. If Riot reveals the ELO and the matchmaking proves it's working correctly and matching you against opponents of your ELO, then the crybabies won't have any superficial evidence to complain about how shit games feel and would then have to blame themselves for being shit.
But that would pretty much spell the end of League as shit players finally realizing they're shit would cause their fragile egos to implode, leading to their own physical implosion into nothingness. All over the world, people would start disappearing all of a sudden and what we'd be left of League's Ranked Ladder would basically be Challengers, Masters and high Diamonds. A relatively small percentage of players that the ranked matchmaker would not be able to accommodate and everyone would have to be autofilled to a support.
So the real question for you is: Can you imagine a future where Autofill rules the day and everyone has to become a dedicated support main?
Pippen The Short3 votesThis whole hybrid "elo/tier based" system is just dumb.
I would prefer they either went to a fully tier bases system or returned to the ELO system. But what they have now is just irritating.
Rikari2 votesI wasn't here for the visible MMR system,but i know this system doesn't work. (arrival) At 0 LP it doesn't matter if you lose cuz u get 3 free games so you can play whatever and hope your team carries or feed. When you are in promos,you have to win up to 3 games of LP to progress which is usually wasted,especially if you go on a win streak later.
Flawless Fetus1 votesTrue. Old system worked fine. This one is cocks. No idea what inspired them to "fix" it.
Elikain1 votesAh, the good ol' confirmation bias. You gotta stop smoking that stuff because it's addictive.
Flawless Fetus1 voteswot.
Elikain4 votesLP is IRRELEVANT. I mean, it's not entirely irrelevant because it is derived from your actual ELO but the matchmaker doesn't use it. It uses your real ELO while what you see on the ladder is what's relevant to you, as a player.
It's just a way for us to easier gauge our progress on the ladder that's now split into bite-sized chunks that are easier to digest. It's just a mask. I don't know the exact ratio of LP to ELO but for this argument, i'm going to assume that it's roughly 1:1. So each Division roughly equates to 100 ELO and respectively, each Tier is max 500 ELO. Your base ELO is soft reset on the start of each Season.
So let's say that everyone's base ELO is 1000. Bronze 1-5 is from 1000 - 1500 ELO. Silver 1-5 is from 1501 - 2000 ELO. Gold 10-5 is from 2001 - 2500 ELO. Platinum 1-5 is from 2501 - 3000 ELO. Diamond 1-5 is from 3001 - 3501 ELO.
Challenger and Master Tier don't have Divisions.
At 0 LP it doesn't matter if you lose cuz u get 3 free games so you can play whatever and hope your team carries or feed.
That isn't true. While the League System protects newcomers to new Divisions/Tiers for a few games after entering it, your LP may not decay but you ELO does still drop if you lose games at 0 LP. That ELO then factors in your LP gains/losses for future games. Which means that if you're consistently losing games and 0 LP but you're always managing to get a single game to raise your LP, there will come a point where you're losing more LP than gaining as you lose more games than you win.
Essentially, you're unable to stave off a demotion if that's the case as your ELO would become substantially lower than the Division/Tier you're in so you would be required to win a lot of games with small LP gains to get back on track. The same requirement exists for promoting. You are required to win 66% and 60% of your games for promotions (Division promotion is 2/3, Tier promotion is 3/5 games) so you can't rely on your good or bad luck to promote/demote you.
Carteeeer1 votes[deleted]
Starcraft243ver5 votesI wasnt around then, but I've read about the system and it seems better than the one we have now, especially because for some reason riot loves to put players that arent in your skill level on your team (not that they're bad or anything but the teams are usually not fair)
That's exactly the opposite, riot builds your team based on the elo system and not their league and grade system.
Tobias Brackner1 votesNo one doesn't care about the outcome of a game if they are playing ranked.
If you find such a person, then report them.
If someone is playing ranked, then they want to win.
Slythion1 votesI'll be honest, my 3rd series game after 2 losses tends to have less importance than game 1 or 5 of a series
Tobias Brackner1 votesThat's kind of silly, don't you think? Either way a win means you progress forward and a lose means you fall back. Don't you think you should give all ranked games the highest priority in terms of how serious you play?
DeathBurst2 votesRationally, yes. But humans aren't rational, that's not breaking news. Knowing that you should play at 100% every game is one thing, but in practice, if I'm 2-0 in my Bo5 to Gold, I'm gonna be relaxed for the next game, and probably not as focused as I could be in more tense circumstances.
Tobias Brackner1 votesThen don't play ranked.
DeathBurst2 votesI'll have to play that promo game at some point, unless you mean "don't play Ranked EVER". And sorry, but that's not gonna happen.
And even if you always play Ranked games at 100%, I'm sure and certain that you don't act rationally in some parts of your life too. It's how human works. I'm not saying it's good or anything, but you can't change that. Downvoting me won't help, you have to deal with it.
Tobias Brackner1 votesHomie, this isn't about a larger philosophical thing in regards to the rationality of humans.
This is about "when you play Ranked, you tryhard. You give it your 100%." Don't goof off in Ranked. Don't half-ass in Ranked. Play Ranked because you want to get good at the game and you want to play people who will challenge your skill at League of Legends.
No you don't have to play that promo game at some point. If you don't care about a promo game, then don't play it. Play casuals and have a good time. Play ARAM and have a good time. Play the rotating game mode and have a good time. Play bots and have a good time. There are many options for League of Legends to entertain you. If you don't want to play seriously or don't care about the outcome of a match then don't play Ranked. It's that easy.
Slythion2 votesyou're argument is silly because statistically speaking, there are some ranked games that have more importance than other. I'm not gonna just not play that promo game just because it has little individual importance to me goal, because getting it out of the way leads to more important games.
You're argument is based on the assumption that every single ranked is has equal importance, which is wrong. Your argument is also based on the assumption that anyone on this earth is capable of giving 100% effort 100% of the time, which is also wrong.
We can argue semantics all you want, but when it comes down to it there are ranked games that are more important than others and humans are not pure creatures with perfect work ethics.
Tobias Brackner1 votesAnd your argument is silly because you don't seem to understand that Ranked is the tryhard mode.
If you don't play trying to focus on winning, then don't play ranked.
There is nothing more, nothing about human psychology required. If you are thinking about playing a ranked game and say to yourself "I don't care if I win" then don't play.
Slythion1 votesI don't think a single person has ever said "I don't care about winning at all" in this entire comment chain, don't be making those leaps man.
Some games are more important than others. That's the truth, that's it. There is nothing besides that simple truth. Some matches are more important than others.
Now you still have to play those less-important games in order to reach the important ones, so to just say "just stop playing if you reach a game of less importance" is both impractical but also applicable to literally every ranked player in the game.
I do care about winning every ranked game. I'm not gonna sabotage games or int just because I'm more than likely to lose that promo series anyways. I'm just not going to care as much. Maybe I won't pick one of my top 3 win % champions for that round, or maybe I won't spend the entire champion select by planning out counter-picks or thinking about strategies or situations that may come up in the next 30 minutes.
This "all or nothing" outlook isn't life or reality, it's idealism.
Tobias Brackner1 votesI don't think a single person has ever said "I don't care about winning at all" in this entire comment chain, don't be making those leaps man.
Awesome, so you agree with me. People who don't care about winning shouldn't play ranked. You positioned yourself as counter to my opening statements of
If someone is playing ranked, then they want to win.
and
No one doesn't care about the outcome of a game if they are playing ranked.
You are arguing for the sake of arguing and that is a waste of time. If you agree with someone then say "I agree." If you agree slightly then say "I agree, but..."
Slythion1 votesWait...but I don't agree with you. You're dealing in statements of absolutes, which are very rarely correct.
I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, I've specifically stated what I disagree with in your stance multiple times.
You stance is correct if we're dealing with black and whites, but apparently you view any sort or discussion or disagreement on the grayer details of life (you know, the other 95% of reality) as a waste of time...
It appears to me as though this entire "argument" has been because you've taken the liberty to assume that there are games we simply don't care about winning, rather than reading our comments with a literal interpretation of "there are some games that have less importance than others".
And even if someone really truly didn't care about a ranked game, I still disagree with your stance that they should just quit Ranked alltogether and never try to reach the games that they do care about.
This is hardly a situation where I "agree slightly" with you, more of a "I barely agree with you but wanted to raise the actual important parts of the topic for debate rather than black + white situations that you addressed"
Tobias Brackner1 votesI am dealing in absolutes only with "people who play ranked want to win."
Stop splitting hairs.
Stop looking for things to argue about.
You want to win, that's enough. I acted accusatory because you framed yourself opposite of my statements of
If someone is playing ranked, then they want to win.
and
No one doesn't care about the outcome of a game if they are playing ranked.
Neither of these are the case by your own admission. Stop looking for things to argue about. Stop wasting time.
Tobias Brackner1 votesHomie, I made it clear what I wanted to talk about. You are admitting that you have no interest in addressing my points. Thus you have made it clear you are only interested in arguing and not actually having a discussion with me. So I am not interested in having a discussion with you.
The most logical standpoint of the post you made in response to my first one is that you disagreed with my statements. If it is important for you to deny this fact then feel free. I'll give you the last word. I'm done with you.
DeathBurst3 votesI don't care TOO MUCH about my THIRD promo game if I'm already 2-0. But I do care about the FOURTH and even more about the FIFTH. So I'm gonna play this third game and get it out of the way.
Losing my 3rd game doesn't mean anything. It's a free game. I'm still gonna try and play to win. But if all lanes lost in early, maybe I'm not gonna refuse to surrender when 3 other people want to. Maybe I won't try to convince that stupid ADC to listen to my calls and stop dying alone. Maybe I won't try to win 4v5 if we have an AFK. I'll preserve my energy and my sanity for that next game that matters. This one is free. Whereas if it's the 5th game and the deciding factor between being promoted or not, you can be sure I'm not surrendering, even if we have a 1% chance of winning the game, I'm gonna try.
You can blame me, you can downvote me, but 99% of players will behave like me. You're just in denial. I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just stating facts. You can can argue against my attitude, I don't care, this is not a debate. Either you open your eyes or you don't, doesn't matter to me. But it should matter to you that you understand your fellow players properly, 'cause you play better when you understand your teammates and your opponents.
Tobias Brackner1 votesDenial? Blame? Homie I'm not denying anything. I'm telling you that you have a garbage attitude for Ranked. You shouldn't be playing ranked if you don't care about winning or losing certain games.
DeathBurst1 votesI shouldn't. And yet I do. Like the immense majority of the player base. That's my point.
Tobias Brackner1 votesYour point is irrelevant. I'm not talking about the immense majority of the player base. I'm talking about you. Don't hide behind others, stand up for yourself.
Tobias Brackner1 votesThen you agree with me.
The foundation of my argument has always been "people who play ranked play to win."
You are trying to win.
Stop arguing when there is no argument to be had.
