What's actually the point of Stormrazor in the form it was released as?

Khristophoros·Jun 3, 2018·5 votes·4,574 views

I really liked the first version of Stormrazor that we had on the PBE. Whenever you crit from either the item's passive or from a random crit you'd get attack speed and movement speed. Now you only get movement speed and it's only from the passive, not from crits.

There were a lot of cool synergies with the original version for crit users and it had more of its power budget in sustained DPS instead of just being yet another AD burst item. We already have Trinity Force, Duskblade, and Tiamat. Did we really need yet another item dedicated fully to AD burst?

21 Comments

TormentulaJun 3, 20182 votes

Because it wasn't an ADC item with the original design, instead assassins were using it to gain additional burst and movement speed, as well as attack speed.

Now its an item that scales its CD with attack speed and the crit damage scales with crit chance so marksmen can build it early and scale with it in a much more useful manner.

BlargChikaBlarghJun 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because it wasn't an ADC item with the original design, instead assassins were using it to gain additional burst and movement speed, as well as attack speed.

Now its an item that scales its CD with attack speed and the crit damage scales with crit chance so marksmen can build it early and scale with it in a much more useful manner.

Yet it's still mostly used on burst champs so it's not even being used as intended LOL. Most games I've played since its release it hasn't been built on any ADCs who go for sustained damage.

TormentulaJun 3, 20181 votes

Before it was built primarily only on assassins such as zed, kha, rengar, and talon.

Going off of probuilds, only dardoch built it once as rengar, and the one zed game that built it didn't do amazingly well and lost. So at least it isn't a problem on other unintended classes like it originally was.

As for marksmen, i'm not really sure who builds it because atm only ezreal and quinsoo users are being played. Before we can assess what the class looks like with the new items, the still broken unaffected marksmen still need to get on the same power level.

ChaddyFantomeJun 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Before it was built primarily only on assassins such as zed, kha, rengar, and talon.

Going off of probuilds, only dardoch built it once as rengar, and the one zed game that built it didn't do amazingly well and lost. So at least it isn't a problem on other unintended classes like it originally was.

As for marksmen, i'm not really sure who builds it because atm only ezreal and quinsoo users are being played. Before we can assess what the class looks like with the new items, the still broken unaffected marksmen still need to get on the same power level.

Draven Caitlyn and Jhin are using it. Quinn as well i think.

TormentulaJun 4, 20181 votes

Idk about jhin, I don't think it works well since the time for the passive scales down with attack speed but jhin can't get bonus attack speed.

The others I can see.

ZephyrDrakeJun 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Before it was built primarily only on assassins such as zed, kha, rengar, and talon.

Going off of probuilds, only dardoch built it once as rengar, and the one zed game that built it didn't do amazingly well and lost. So at least it isn't a problem on other unintended classes like it originally was.

As for marksmen, i'm not really sure who builds it because atm only ezreal and quinsoo users are being played. Before we can assess what the class looks like with the new items, the still broken unaffected marksmen still need to get on the same power level.

And by "same power lvl" you mean "irrelevant until 3-4 items which means the game is over anyways"

TormentulaJun 4, 20181 votes

Problem with marksmen is the game is over after they get two items: item 3031 item 3087 , other items and marksmen were balanced and damage crept in an attempt to keep up with this spike, so stuff like item 3124 became better.

They fixed the problem with ADCs, 3-4 items isn't half bad and actually puts the game in a much better state considering how powerful marksmen are in conjunction with their supports.

However... the problem is they only fixed the problem with IE and ER users, and added another option with it which just replaces IE for the most part... yet the guinsoo's users and ezreal aren't affected by it, and were already top tier during the ADC dominate meta.

As for there still being snowball, again it mostly relates to the remaining unfixed marksmen (hotfix nerfs don't fix their items' power to be on the same level as the reduced power on other items for marksmen) but mostly its due to the jungle role atm, since jungle role is dictated by huge leads due to scuttle which also leads to uncontrollable pressure to lanes and objectives.

ZephyrDrakeJun 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because it wasn't an ADC item with the original design, instead assassins were using it to gain additional burst and movement speed, as well as attack speed.

Now its an item that scales its CD with attack speed and the crit damage scales with crit chance so marksmen can build it early and scale with it in a much more useful manner.

And now it's a noobtrap item that nobody cares about. Why bother with it? You are delaying your build so much for something you will accomplish later on with your build

TormentulaJun 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You are delaying your build so much for something you will accomplish later on with your build

The point of this entire adc rework.

Its suppose to scale with other items (attack speed), which is a change from "buy IE and shiv, instantly win if you got them first"

ZephyrDrakeJun 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The point of this entire adc rework.

Its suppose to scale with other items (attack speed), which is a change from "buy IE and shiv, instantly win if you got them first"

So I either build a normal build path or get this plus the normal build I would do anyways... also "guaranteed crit" is pointless when you reach 100% anyways. Would rather not get it and instead get an actual useful item instead

KhristophorosJun 4, 20181 votes

Why would assassins be more inclined to build it if it procced off all crits and gave attack speed on crit?

TormentulaJun 4, 20181 votes

Because crit is an auto attack amp that also works with armor penetration (lethality) and the item gave +65 AD, which is 10 more then warrior enchantment and 15 more then duskblade.

Assassins would just crit auto dusk proc a player out of the game, especially rengar and kha'zix. It wasn't a chance item, it was guaranteed crit.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3WEuGg4QbvE/WukGb4jXaTI/AAAAAAAA-nM/9IRYDswjyocCrhvknEgAlxRSazIFubyUgCEwYBhgL/s1600/stormrazor.jpg

At PBE launch this item simply worked with "after 2.5 seconds out of combat, you crit".

It was changed on live to crit, but crit for 160% damage and the damage scales with crit chance, so it functions better on marksmen rather then assassins since assassins don't like crit items except the occasional shiv on nocturne or shaco, or the old IE on rengar.

The regular calculation for crits is 200% damage, so it is infact weaker on assassins while ADCs that build attack speed will get more DPS value out of it.

KhristophorosJun 4, 20181 votes

You didn't answer my question.

Why would assassins be inclined to build it if you gained attack speed + movement speed from all crits instead of only getting it from the free crit?

TormentulaJun 4, 20181 votes

I just said

they want it for the free 200% bonus damage on the auto

The MS isn't bad on hit and run assassins, and the attack speed doesn't matter.

they changed it so the bonus damage is less, and the frequency you get it relies on attack speed, something they won't build, thus effectively making it less abusable on assassins.

KhristophorosJun 4, 20181 votes

I DIDNT ASK YOU ABOUT 200% VS 160%. I asked you about 1) proc on all crits, and 2) attack speed on proc

R E A D I N G - C O M P R E H E N S I O N - P L E A S E

The attack speed doesn't matter for ADCs? Really?

TormentulaJun 4, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Why would assassins be more inclined to build it if it procced off all crits and gave attack speed on crit?

You asked, why would assassins be more inclinded to build it... if it procced off all crits and the answer is this doesn't fucking matter, the fact it gave them a free 200% bonus damage auto stacked with gunblade with reasonable AD was enough for them to buy this

they nerfed the damage to require more crit items they won't buy they nerfed the availability to require attack speed to consistent use it in combat

Both of these tie in with ADC itemization now rather then just work by default with assassins.

I'm done replying, read.

KhristophorosJun 4, 20181 votes

You're acting like if it had the features I'm talking about then it absolutely HAS TO BE 200% on the crit. Are you actually trolling?

Angel AvacynJun 3, 20181 votes

I think the item is pretty good in champs like gangplank is 60% more damge to the barrels , but i dont see the point of a guaranted crit if im building around 80% crit chance anyway

My Waifu VanillaJun 4, 20181 votes

Allows you to go lethality if the team is squishier than average and lets you just live with Stormrazor+IE instead of dumping gold into a zeal item when you can reach near 100% true damage with ghostblade and such.

Wild GeeseJun 4, 20181 votes

Yeah, the second passive was in ways more interesting than the first passive, but as for why they removed it? I'll try and explain...

The idea of the current one is since the initial Crit is 160%, it is supposed to go on a Crit build-- so for instance it can be a one item power spike into 3: stormrazor->zealitem->IE. Since the SR hasdecent stats on its own, and improves with more critical.

Alternately, it can be used as an item for a partial Crit build Stormrazor+zealitem. (No IE); those two items can be good in a burst build such as lethality. You can even go Stormrazor+zealitem+zealitem and forget about IE; your critical rate would be close enough to 100 there, accounting for the first hit always critting, which fits into many builds.

So going back to why there no special proc on additional Crits; is because of the 160% crit-- building additional critical helps Stormrazor become more powerful-- if it had the second passive; it would simply be a powerful crit item to build when you have high crit already, and frequently build after an IE+zeal+zeal build-- they wanted it to not be like the old Essence Reaver-- they didn't want it to be used to make an IE build stronger.

So 1. To be built with zeal before IE but not after IE. 2. To work with a zeal build without IE. 3. It's a lot about when items are built, most of the 8.11 marksmen changes are.

Teridax68Jun 4, 20181 votes

The original point of the item was to provide upfront burst to marksmen who'd like to stack AD, but not necessarily crit. However, the implementation proved to have some pretty serious balance and anti-synergy problems, so Riot changed the item completely to synergize with crit and attack speed, defeating its entire purpose. It still has upfront burst and AD-stacking synergy, which is why it's good on Jhin, but otherwise it doesn't really have a clear point anymore.