Is autofill logic proper and adequate?

TheEdgeOfDestiny·Sep 17, 2016·2 votes·449 views

I got autofilled top while queuing mid->jg. Being curious I checked my teammates ranked stats. Turned out midlaner had lower MMR then me and jungler was unranked.

Do you think such logic is adequate when a better (at given moment) player fills "gap"? While "inferior" players get the role of the one who received autofill.

P.S.: I heared same complain from high elo players (challenger). That they getting autofilled and players with worse skill (diamond) getting their main role.

7 Comments

Nagoh ShanSep 17, 20163 votes

Autofill would be ok in a different system, but in the current system it's the reason riot is hitting none of their matchmaking goals. Those being, speed, quality, and role selection.

Scarra and Gbay were too nice to that smug little bastard in the dynamic queue roundtable, and you can tell that guy's got no clue, so I imagine that the 2017 iteration they have been talking about will miss the mark as well.

But as it stands, the person with the higher MMR will be put off-role more often due to the way autofill systems need to work. That's unavoidable.

TheEdgeOfDestinySep 17, 20161 votes

Omg. This is dumb. It sounds like they intentionally give teams with autofilled player a handicap. Without a reason.

Nagoh ShanSep 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Omg. This is dumb. It sounds like they intentionally give teams with autofilled player a handicap. Without a reason.

The reason is because there's 5 pools of players, one pool for each role. Once autofill kicks in, you're put in all of the pools at a priority (best guess, but likely) So it looks something like this if you want to visualize it.

T-J-M-A-S

Since your queue didn't pop for either your primary or secondary role, you know those queues are full, but the others are not, so if you queue Mid/Top, you know there are people in those queues waiting, but the other three may not have people available in them for your games.

J-A-S is the new queue that people are waiting to fill up

Since you've been waiting the longest, you trigger autofill, and you are added to the other three queues as well, so if anyone queues for two of the other three, you get the role that's left and the people waiting behind you are placed in the Mid/top positions, as they weren't waiting long enough to trigger the fill themselves.

It's not intended as a handicap, even though it often can be, it's just the way the system has to work if it's going to be the one they use.

TheEdgeOfDestinySep 18, 20161 votes

I meant another thing. Or I didn't understand you. There are two players in queue for mid. One is better (higher MMR), one is worse (lower MMR). From these two players they choose the one that is inferior (lower MMR). Not as a rule but this happens.

In reality algorithm is more complicated I understand. Many things are taken into consideration. Like secondary roles and time in queue. But putting inferior player into role and better player into autofill makes team handicapped. This things were pointed by high-ranked players also. Pants are Dragon for example (challenger, jungle). Where he complained that he gets autofilled to top or support and some lower rank (diamond) player gets his main role.

ErockandrollSep 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nagoh Shan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GVYk7tkA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-17T19:39:49.122+0000)

Autofill would be ok in a different system, but in the current system it's the reason riot is hitting none of their matchmaking goals. Those being, speed, quality, and role selection.

Scarra and Gbay were too nice to that smug little bastard in the dynamic queue roundtable, and you can tell that guy's got no clue, so I imagine that the 2017 iteration they have been talking about will miss the mark as well.

But as it stands, the person with the higher MMR will be put off-role more often due to the way autofill systems need to work. That's unavoidable.

It seems to me that Riot's systems were more designed to balance MMR pretty much blind to roles, with LP rewards/loss being adjusted based on the difference. This worked with the old systems more because players were reasonably expected to know all roles. (Since Riot promoted pick order if people didn't get the role they wanted)

Dynamic Q skewed that system by allowing people (some of the times) get their main role. Thus their MMR isn't representative of the average of all roles. (if one's skill with top lane was two divisions lower than their mid lane skill for example) Which would mean that the average MMR for the team, could be skewed as well.

And that's completely compounded by the constraints of the Dynamic role Selection, where people looking for specific roles will end up increasing the Q times. And Ultimately, the issue with Riot's goals (speed, quality, role selection) is that it's ultimately a compromise between them. So my question is, With the obvious disparity between low and high ELO, along with the role miss match I just mentioned, Can Riot actually maintain Dynamic role Selection, and still maintain ranked integrity? Or would ranked integrity be better served with the old system where everyone was still expected to know all roles?

adidasSep 17, 20162 votes

It's not really fair. It's riot trying to shove their ''oh dq is better, autofill is better, buff jinx and rivens ults because its better'' kind of mentality.

Like lets be honest,

Riot does what they want, even if 90% of the community warns them not to ( see vel koz rework )

TheEdgeOfDestinySep 17, 20161 votes

Riot is a machine. With bureaucracy and management hierarchy. They cannot just turn smth around that was already in movement/development/implementation. They need a lot of meetings and concord with higher management. Moreover high management are usually people that are far from gameplay and don't like taking risks. I feel they started giving crutches to system because it started failing right after release - they haven't achieved the goal they were aiming at - creating a more satisfactory for player queue. I have a feeling community voice was pretty loud for them to hear. Let's just hope they will stop giving players crutches and won't screw up with next generation of queue. Sometimes it is better to listen to players needs rather then strictly decide what is better for them.