I can't say I've ever seen mana potions in my opponents inventory and thought, "Oh sh*t, GG" Same with Crystaline Flask.
You're just sacrificing gold for sustain instead of damage. I don't understand why they're removing that option.
ViashinoWizard4 votesThe issue isn't that mana pots are overbearing, it's that depending on the specific champion they're either unnecessary or mandatory.
DynamiteGazelle2 votesThat makes sense. But when you think of mana as just another resource, then I don't get why we are allowed to buy health pots for resource regen, but mana pots are out of the question.. They are both resources that your character consumes, so why don't we allow an option to regenerate both of the resources. Some use one more than the other sure, but why only allow one type of resource regeneration consumable. It just doesn't make sense to me.
And it's kind of exacerbated by the fact that there are like 3 or 4 different health regeneration options now, but no mana options. And the reasoning Riot gives for it just doesn't seem clear either.
Why not just get rid of health pots and up health regeneration on champions too? It's the same thing, right? This just swings things heavily in favor or no/low mana cost champions.
Laning phase is all about resource management, but now they are taking away all options for one of 2 resources? Ok then..
Abyssphere2 votesThat makes sense. But when you think of mana as just another resource, then I don't get why we are allowed to buy health pots for resource regen, but mana pots are out of the question.. They are both resources that your character consumes, so why don't we allow an option to regenerate both of the resources. Some use one more than the other sure, but why only allow one type of resource regeneration consumable. It just doesn't make sense to me.
And it's kind of exacerbated by the fact that there are like 3 or 4 different health regeneration options now, but no mana options. And the reasoning Riot gives for it just doesn't seem clear either.
Why not just get rid of health pots and up health regeneration on champions too? It's the same thing, right? This just swings things heavily in favor or no/low mana cost champions.
Laning phase is all about resource management, but now they are taking away all options for one of 2 resources? Ok then..
Health potions stay because everyone buys them. When everyone uses them to similar effect (i.e. just to stay in lane for longer universally), it's not a problem. It's fair for everyone to buy health potions.
Mana potions however are different. They're almost exclusively used by people because they're over-reliant on mana and need help with it. Certain characters being reliant on mana potions is unfair to them because they're spending less gold on actual items while people with less mana problems can just rush the build they want.
This is supposed to work out positively for mana reliant champions. Riot is removing the crutch (mana pots) in the hope that the compensation (base mana buffs, Doran's Ring buff) will remove the need for it. Ideally by the time this is sorted out, the champion you're worried about not having mana potions should not feel like they have any need for them anymore.
Mirage Seraph2 votesHealth Pots are for when you're facing an opponent you can't win against, therefore you need to invest in sustain to stay in lane longer and then make more gold/xp. Alternatively, they're a counter to Sustain champs in the early game where if you didn't have health pots anybody with built in sustain would automatically win (try laning against an Aatrox while playing Rumble without buying any health pots, tell me how that goes). Then you have the Jungler. ... Yeah, buff their HP/5 to compensate for the loss of red pots. Suddenly the only good junglers are those who take no damage or heal it all back since there's no way HP/5 can close that gap without being overtly overtuned.
TL:DR: You buy Health Pots depending on the champion you're against. You buy Mana Pots depending on the champion you're playing.
EndlessSorcerer2 votes
+ 2x 
+ 2x 
They are by no means overpowered, but their removal does help make mana-gating champions easier.
DynamiteGazelle1 votesHey! Fellow Yorick player!
I don't know about you, but I buy mana pots at all stages of the game.
....no mana regen buffs
GG Riot. They must really not want people to play him
EndlessSorcerer1 votesAnyways, Yorick has a few items to look forward to with the item changes.
Manamune is pretty much the same, if slightly more expensive.
Death's Dance will likely let you heal based on the damage dealt by your Ghoul's basic attacks and it will make you take a certain amount of damage as a bleed over time, which you may be able to sustain though.
Black Cleaver is still great for rapidly shredding an enemies armor due to your Ghoul's basic attacks.
Sterak's Gage is still good for the shield and durability.
Iceborn Gauntlet now provides more CDR and armor, has a larger slow field, and no longer provides AP (which only affects your W).
Spirit Visage's stats have been increased by 100HP and 10MR.
While you can't pick all of them without overcapping on CDR, I feel that his itemization options have improved.
I can see him being built more offensively in the future due to new possibilities in itemization.
(Ninja Tabi or Mercury Treads) + Manamune + Death's Dance + Sterak's Gage + Spirit Visage + (Iceborn Gauntlet or Frozen Heart) will be pretty tough to deal with later in the game and offer a lot of damage and durability, especially combined with his passive. Obviously the items built and their order will change massively from game to game, but I don't think it will be as bad as you may think.
Mana is going to be an issue early-game, but that can be worked around in many cases.
Also, I believe that starting gold is going to be 500 now. If you wanted to, you could easily start with a Sapphire Crystal + 3 Health Potions (waiting for 5 gold) and get an early Tear of the Goddess.
DynamiteGazelle1 votesYeah some of the new items might help, but that doesn't change the fact that Yorick doesn't really build mana regen items. Tear helps, but you still eat through that mana like nothing else.
So the lack of a mana regen buff that a lot of other champs got will really hurt him with no pots available
Aeolian Melodies1 votesYeah some of the new items might help, but that doesn't change the fact that Yorick doesn't really build mana regen items. Tear helps, but you still eat through that mana like nothing else.
So the lack of a mana regen buff that a lot of other champs got will really hurt him with no pots available
doesn't Yorick typically go 
?
DynamiteGazelle1 votesYeah, but he's so mana hungry you still run out of mana pretty quickly
SaltyKracka1 votesGood. It's the only way tha fucker ever leaves lane anyways.
Hayaishi22 votesMana pots? no.
Cristalline flask though, yeah.
Ionian2 votesBecause resourceless champions must stay top tier.
Aeolian Melodies2 votesNo but now that they're going I feel totally fucked in early lvls where I need to rush Sightstone over any mana item and my mana costs are fucking whack.
/ 
/ 
main.
Abyssphere1 votes[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GThrgyPB,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-11-10T00:18:45.892+0000)
No but now that they're going I feel totally fucked in early lvls where I need to rush Sightstone over any mana item and my mana costs are fucking whack.
Here's an analysis of support mage mana regen in Season 6 vs Season 5:
Season 5: Base regen: 9 mana per 5 Spellthief's: 25% base mana regen (2 mana per 5 at level 1) 2 Cookies + 1 Mana Pot = 120 extra mana
Season 6: Base regen: 11.5 mana per 5 Spellthief's: 25% base mana regen (3 mana per 5 at level 1) 3 Cookies = 30 extra mana
In season 5, supports gained roughly 22 mana per 10 seconds at level 1. In season 6, this is 29 mana per 10 seconds. Over the course of a minute, season 6 supports regen 42 more mana than season 5 supports, meaning the 90 extra mana they got from the mana pot in season 5 is made up for over the course of just over two minutes. On top of this, you have an additional 120 health because you got a cookie rather than a mana potion, and this will situationally result in less mana use becuase supports like Nami, Soraka and Sona can be less concerned with healing themselves than they are right now.
Let's say you get a strong first back at ~9 minutes and return to lane with Sightstone and Frostfang. Let's guess that you're level 6 at this point. Stat growth is a weird thing but I'll estimate:
Season 5: Base regen: 10.6 mana per 5 Frostfang: 50% base mana regen (5 mana per 5)
Season 6: Base regen: 13.1 mana per 5 Frostfang: 100% base mana regen (13 mana per 5)
At this point you'll wonder why you'd ever want a mana potion again.
tl;dr as a mage support main I am excited for season 6. The mana changes are at worst a trade off at very early levels but scale extremely quickly into big buffs. Mid game mana issues just don't exist anymore and late game you can honestly stick around very close to forever.
Aeolian Melodies1 votesHere's an analysis of support mage mana regen in Season 6 vs Season 5:
Season 5: Base regen: 9 mana per 5 Spellthief's: 25% base mana regen (2 mana per 5 at level 1) 2 Cookies + 1 Mana Pot = 120 extra mana
Season 6: Base regen: 11.5 mana per 5 Spellthief's: 25% base mana regen (3 mana per 5 at level 1) 3 Cookies = 30 extra mana
In season 5, supports gained roughly 22 mana per 10 seconds at level 1. In season 6, this is 29 mana per 10 seconds. Over the course of a minute, season 6 supports regen 42 more mana than season 5 supports, meaning the 90 extra mana they got from the mana pot in season 5 is made up for over the course of just over two minutes. On top of this, you have an additional 120 health because you got a cookie rather than a mana potion, and this will situationally result in less mana use becuase supports like Nami, Soraka and Sona can be less concerned with healing themselves than they are right now.
Let's say you get a strong first back at ~9 minutes and return to lane with Sightstone and Frostfang. Let's guess that you're level 6 at this point. Stat growth is a weird thing but I'll estimate:
Season 5: Base regen: 10.6 mana per 5 Frostfang: 50% base mana regen (5 mana per 5)
Season 6: Base regen: 13.1 mana per 5 Frostfang: 100% base mana regen (13 mana per 5)
At this point you'll wonder why you'd ever want a mana potion again.
tl;dr as a mage support main I am excited for season 6. The mana changes are at worst a trade off at very early levels but scale extremely quickly into big buffs. Mid game mana issues just don't exist anymore and late game you can honestly stick around very close to forever.
in lane to keep their HP up?Abyssphere1 votes[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GThrgyPB,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2015-11-11T02:27:28.163+0000)
- Burst of mana > small constant mana regain. Why do you think people buy pots instead of
- Nobody that knows maths upgrades to Frostfang especially on first B
is comparitively popular.
Cherysse1 votesI used to have them on my inventory, specially with certain champs. Now, why don't we all just use resourceless champs like Riven, that can spam you and kill you whenever they want...
I mean seriusly, removing these items doesn't help a lot, now Ill have to buy more doran rings.
Genuwhine1 votesi think its too niche and that they could buff/do other things to help mana regen on the niche things anyways. What I mean by that is mostly supports and a few mid maybe top champs would get and they could just buff that. The other people i see buying mana pots all the time are just bad players wasting money. But to be honest im all for that let bad players waste their money its just another skill of knowing what to buy.
Unlucky Number71 voteshad a ryze top lane as a tryndamere. this was before ryze's rework. he kept spamming his q and out trading me. so many mana pots.
Dominick Destine1 votesClearly we needed to remove mana potions to give 
a chance to compete !
Bharhash1 votesWell... Top Pantheon just lost a bit of viability. I usually ran 
, , and x2 to give him mana to do some aggressive Q harass. I could even break a Garen early with the sustain from that.
Back to the drawing board...
Z Statistic2 votesPantheon top has gotten several hits this seasons. The removal of mana pots wasn't even the nail in the coffin; it's shoveling the dirt on top.
On the flip side, there are so many early game choices for him on the PBE that the only thing you really need to worry about is "what do I do from lvl 1 to my first back?" Refill+LS should be good, and the corrupted potion should also be a good alternative. Heck, Doran's Blade is now a bit better even.
The probability that all the new starts are shitty or mediocre on Pantheon top is very low.
Abyssphere1 votesThey've hardly ever removed items due to them being overbearing. Mostly they're removed for the opposite reason. But you need to realise that Riot changes stuff for more reasons than just "It's OP".
DynamiteGazelle1 votesRiot is the one that is saying they're overbearing though.
Abyssphere1 votesRiot is the one that is saying they're overbearing though.
...where? They've spoken at length about the removal of mana pots and "they're overbearing" is not a reason that came up.
Athenes Lulu1 votesPfft, who cares about supports that are not tanks.
They're midlaners, what are we talking about?
######/s
cheoekar1 votesI always just hit up a
then get a 
and go to town then either a 
or 