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So, with Darius being in a pretty awful spot right now I'm suggesting ONE change to him

Malicious Metal··32 votes·1,924 views

Juggernauts are tanky fighters with insane damage and tools to survive in the midst of battle through forms of sustain, relying mostly on two stats: Total AD and HP

Both of which you find in plentiful amounts when looking at Juggernaut itemization item 3053 item 3748 item 3071

Yet unlike some Juggernauts who benefit extremely well from total ad, especially champions like Mordekaiser and Illaoi with insanely high base AD values and a lot of spells that scale with total ad (heck, Morde's q in itself has a 370% total ad ratio) Darius only really benefits from it on Q and W, and even then the ratios and frequency he can apply that damage isn't anything to write home about.

The removal of Fervor of battle hit him hard, especially since his Ultimate, Noxian Guillotine, scales solely off BONUS AD, making him unable to increase his damage with Sterak's gage.

So, with fervor gone, I suggest one change: >Make Darius' R scale off total AD

it'd be a neat little buff to make Sterak's more desirable on him and give him some of the damage back he lost.

35 Comments

Salamencę14 votes

Yes please. [darius-angry]

SomeStars7 votes

the thing about juggernauts is anyone good can play against them because although being powerful they have distinct windows of where they can be attacked like a yorick after he misses his E basically missed all his damage and now you go in and beat him up for making such a mistake or illaoi missing her tentacle grab or skarner who you just don't fight in his crystal zone

but in lower elo where people don't know what to do against them they stomp everyone like the silver 5 scrub that is me

juggernauts just don't fit well i think as they cant do much unless they have an entire team comp based around them in higher elo but if they can do what they need to they destroy everyone else

PB4UAME4 votes

How are they different from skirmishers (like Fiora, Yas, Jax) who are designed to be able to skirmish or 1 vs 1 any other champion? Skirmishers also generally have great mobility, as good or better CC, much better target access, and better damage, in exchange for less raw survivability, but stronger situational defensive abilities.

In my mind, juggernauts are simply far too limited, and have way too much counterplay. Skirmishers get to kill you instantly if you fuck up, and they can engage and initiate fights and chase people down. Juggernauts can only beat you when you let them. Period. They have no agency themselves and cannot initiate on anything but an already won teamfight with terrible positioning.

Thefrostyviking3 votes

Skirmisher's generally can't teamfight at all though, some like Jax can if the enemy team comp is auto attack based.

Juggernauts are generally better at teamfight compared to skimishers who often go under another name,split pushers.

Of course Yorick does exist as a exception.

Skirmishers give up nearly all their teamfighting for better dueling.

Whilst juggernauts are decent and/or good at both.

Skimirshers are also generally harder to play compared to a juggernaut,

FCJAAAAGOOOO4 votes

I feel like Darius deserves a bit of HP scaling in his kit. Him not feeling like a tank is kind of silly.

Troll for Trump6 votes

He's not a tank. You can play him as one if you go the grasp path, but it's not really the optimal playstyle.

Bronze 6 Yasuo1 votes

What is he suppose to be then? An adc?

YumaS2Astral4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bronze 6 Yasuo,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GKoPgLuE,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-11-16T09:52:56.181+0000)

What is he suppose to be then? An adc?

He is supposed to be a juggernaut. He is tanky (not as tanky as a dedicated tank though). But unlike a tank, his job is to deal as much damage as possible, not to CC, peel, or start teamfights.

Bronze 6 Yasuo2 votes

Ok. I get it now.

Troll for Trump1 votes

He's supposed to do dmg and be tanky. The problem with Grasp is that it doesn't give him the necessary tools to do dmg.

PB4UAME1 votes

Sort of, he's a melee ADC.

TiltoverEnforcer3 votes

I'm down for this. Take my upvote.

Kaìju3 votes

Isn't this the first time he's had a sub 50% win rate in like two or three years?

Kloqdq2 votes

From what I can see he has just been dropping in strength for quite a while now. He was staying somewhat a float until this patch hit where he just fell like a rock.

I am just really curious as to why he dropped so hard this patch compared to over the season where he was falling, but at least stayed close to 50%.

Example of the drop -> http://na.op.gg/champion/darius/statistics/top

Brascus2 votes

He's not tanky at all is why, even if you land Q's you're still going down very fast. It was a tight system before, but without any way to directly compensate his lack of tank stats early he's super squish.

230 HP and 5 armor is a fucking travesty.

Kloqdq2 votes

Honestly Darius has a couple problems. Being tanky is a pretty big issue because I agree, he just doesn't pass for a beefy front liner anymore. I do think his raw damage has been hit hard over the past couple of months. First a shadow nerf, now removal of fervor, it all just kind of sucks for him.

I do believe if we buff the resolve tree he will bounce back. The tree itself just kind of sucks ass.

Brascus2 votes

Another layer to it is his mana as well, he goes oom significantly faster than he used to, 2 combos early and you're almost oom. I've tested going damage and mana, but you're too squishy, he's ok if you go full regen tank and start with dorans shield, though I'm trying one with corruption potion this second.

DragonShea2 votes

{quoted}

Honestly Darius has a couple problems. Being tanky is a pretty big issue because I agree, he just doesn't pass for a beefy front liner anymore. I do think his raw damage has been hit hard over the past couple of months. First a shadow nerf, now removal of fervor, it all just kind of sucks for him.

I do believe if we buff the resolve tree he will bounce back. The tree itself just kind of sucks ass.

Too much power is in Demolish, and the second last resolve line sucks donkey ass. Resolve had 180 HP in the PBE before it got nerfed down to 130 which ain't that bad but it could still be better.

Honestly, Darius has some of the highest base HP so he doesn't need more of that or more base AD, but a tweak to his damage scaling and maybe a buff to his AS as he should be able to stack his bleed faster in the late game

Kloqdq3 votes

I think a change to his damage scaling and a buff to his AS would be perfect for him. The lack of fervor and AS are the biggest problems on him. I know personally I always had 15% AS on Darius. It was just that needed to fight.

Tenth Leper2 votes

As long as they lower the base damage enough that it is only a buff at high levels or with steraks, that seems reasonable.

Troll for Trump1 votes

He's supposed to be a lane bully, but Riot really hates that. Don't weaken his early game any more than the rework already did.

Troll for Trump2 votes

The problem isn't that he's not doing enough damage (at least, not at the point of the game where he can afford cleaver and sterak's), but that he gets kited or killed before he an do anything.

Whenever I'm "not doing damage" it's more like because the ADC gets healed/shielded, either off lifesteal or from supports.

Juggernauts as a whole need more teamfight presence, but not through dealing more damage, but being able to do more damage.

Best example of this would be Illaoi.

Bronze 6 Yasuo2 votes

If they buff Darius I'm buying dunkmaster. And I will forgive riot for all the mistakes that they've done.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

I think making it total AD is a bit far. Maybe only base AD scaling equal to 2/3 of the bonus AD scaling?

Essentially, let's say his R scales off of 60% bonus AD. The change I'm suggesting, instead of giving him a 60% total AD ratio, giving him a 40% Base AD ratio and a 60% bonus AD ratio.

He already has a lot of damage. And, hell, the last match I fought him in was one of the first times I was actually able to fight him as melee (one other time before as Nasus into him when he was completely incompetent, and a few times as Kled). And I'd rather not go completely back to him grabbing me once after he has BC and 6 and having to accept my impending gray screen.

Smitty Manjensen2 votes

It's kinda nice that Darius players get know the feel of Garen players, although pros and high elo players still consider Darius better than Garen.

Nausicäa 1 votes

The whole game is in an awful place, i dont think you should be crying about Darius right now.

ReySolomon1 votes

I've been picking darius and to me he's still somewhat an okay pick who can win the lane still but I do like this idea.

FalconPawwwwnch1 votes

Okay, but then you'd have to reduce the base damage a little

It Hertz When IP1 votes

That'd defeat the purpose of the change. The issue that MM is bringing up (and that he's trying to fix) is that when Darius builds no AD aside from Cleaver and Steraks, his ult damage is too low, and your reply is "fine, but lower his ult damage". Ult damage being low is literally the problem being addressed.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

Srsly try out precision darius. Press the attack is really good on him. Resolve does nothing for him as a primary tree.

kasfas1 votes

I think what he really needs more attack speed. Him not being able to get in those extra attacks to stack passive really do harm his play style.

Having his ult scale with total ad might be too good. I would prefer if he gained more ad from his passive, or perhaps gained a portion of his passive ad when he applied a stack to a champ. Say 1/10-1/4 at 1 to 4 stacks.

Also, he should regain the feature where if he hit a target with q at 4 stacks he gets all 5 stacks on other targets he hits. This would make his teamfight much better:

Staks1 votes

I saw two things in this post... Darius and Buff.

Take my upvote.

NTrumpWeTrust1 votes

I'm fine with a toxic bruiser not being good. Rework him, he's cancer when he's good

DragonShea1 votes

As a fellow jugg lover, I say take my upvotes Master Malicious. This change to his ult will help him out a lot, since he can get up to 74.5 AD from item 3053

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

neat little buff

Right, 130 true damage is 'a little buff'. [slayer-jinx-wink]

It's just silly how you DO see that other juggs get to levarage their massive base AD with total AD scalings, yet you COMPLETELY FAIL to see that Darius was given bonus AD scalings because he gets to ignore armor WAY more than any other jugg. I.e. Mordekaiser and Illaoi are force to buy WAY more damage than Darius to be effective, if your change went through he would forever need to be balanced around full-tank builds.

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