Is Mobility Creep on the radar at all?

Miraweave·Nov 10, 2014·74 votes·20,178 views

I'm really worried that Riot has completely forgotten how valuable mobility is, especially with champions like Kalista and Yasuo who have dashes on virtually nonexistent cooldowns which cost nothing.

The trouble is, given how powerful mobile champions are, Immobile champions tend to only be good if they're overpowered (Read: Syndra, Ryze) and otherwise there will basically always be a champion who does the same thing but with mobility.

Is this something that Riot has said anything about for the upcoming months?

174 Comments

RiotMorelloNov 11, 201425 votes

I think the biggest issue here is that we don't make mobile champions "pay" for mobility enough in their total power budget. Immobile mages are a good example of this fallout, as you mention.

When you have mobile champions that have the same or similar "raw" power output to a champion without mobility, it creates winners and losers really quickly. I agree here.

In this, I think mobile champions should be more tactically flexible (due to mobility) and have less raw power to compensate. I think, though, this will require more and nerfs and buffs. And will mostly be toning down the raw output of mobility champions (as you mentioned, Syndra and co are bullshit and remove gameplay decision-making due to power factors, so buffing immobile mages is not a good plan).

Preseason 2015 actually does help this in a strategy way in the meantime; jungle ganks, on average, are less frequent, giving less total pressure to immobile characters. This is some of what we saw with more traditional mage mids in Season 2 that we think will buff all these characters a little bit in the meantime.

TortferngatrNov 11, 20142 votes

Hmm. What do you think about introducing more tactical items meant to provide tactical mobility, like a Phage upgrade that makes a "speed pulse" around your autoattack targets (granting the Phage movespeed to nearby allies), then makes a miniature Rage speed shrine around a target for a few seconds on kill?

RiotMorelloNov 12, 20147 votes

I think these largely will result in a "rich get richer" paradigm on highly mobile champs, as there's no good mechanic to have these items exclusive to more stationary characters.

TortferngatrNov 12, 20142 votes

One mechanic is opportunity costs, another is making the impact of the item primarily help out low-mobility allies (as opposed to being entirely selfish).

The Phage upgrade idea was sort of directed towards specifically helping out immobile/low-mobility melees stick to a target, while providing a fallback itemization option for RADCs (particularly ones like Ashe, Varus, Sivir, and Kalista).

That being said, I lack the game knowledge (particularly of Summoner's Rift) to properly evaluate how such an item would actually impact the game. For now I defer to your judgement.

TheVoidBringerNov 12, 20145 votes

One of the ideas which have been suggested in the comments is the creation of a new kind of cc that would prevent champions from dashing. It would be a huge work to create it and to balance the champions it would affect the most, but since silences are beeing slowly removed, this might be a interesting possibility to replace it (one of the purpose of the silence of soraka's new e is to prevent ennemies from dashing out of the area). It would be a good way to impact the mobile champion's gameplay without afflecting the stationary champions.

5G8Nri0B54Nov 12, 20143 votes

So Brand, Annie, and Malzahar isn't going to get much attention?

How each of these champions often need to Flash if they wish to land their full combo to kill their opponents (or bait their opponents so they can get in range themselves for your combo). Or how there is Annie...who see's far more Support plays than AP mid plays nowadays despite her supposedly being an AP mid.

Speaking of AP mid being held hostage by Supports. Didn't you say you were once working on making Zyra into something more plant-focused rather than her spells? That was 1-2 years ago, did you abandon that project and decide that she'll just be a support from now on?

RiotMorelloNov 12, 20147 votes

If you're asking if we're going to further increase mobility creep to solve the problem, then no, we're not. I don't want creep to turn into inflation. :P

5G8Nri0B54Nov 12, 20144 votes

Weeelll...if I remember Xypherous' quote right, that was how ADC's with mobility such as Vayne initially came about, to deal with Riven who herself was initially designed to deal with Irelia...in other words mobility creep is Irelia's fault. So technically speaking, you guys kinda did inflate mobility creep to "solve" it.

But point taken!!

I just wished Annie was a little more interesting a champion. That she could be a little more interesting as an AP mid outside of flashing in to insta-burst her enemy to death by level 6. If I compared her to newer champion. To me, she's always been one of those champions who is really cool conceptually, but have a kit that doesn't maximize on it. I mean, if your early day promotions and adverts for LoL or her bajillion skins was anything to go by, I almost mistook Annie for your game's mascot!

Speaking of which, ever considered adopting a mascot for LoL?

KeevalroyNov 12, 20143 votes

I think the biggest issue here is that we don't make mobile champions "pay" for mobility enough in their total power budget.

This being said, what are the plans of dealing with Kalista and that mistake of a passive? Would it be a better idea to have her passive be replaced by The Black Spear as an ability rather than an item? What if a teamfight is coming up and she doesn't want her Nami support getting launched into an enemy team? What if instead she wants the jungle Jarvan to have the bond before they're engaged on?

RiotMorelloNov 12, 20144 votes

I think the tactical mobility is fine if "costed" right. This means removing power from other elements of Kallista (damage is a good one on an ADC :P) until appropriate.

ProfDrDeathNov 12, 20147 votes

Good to see that I am not the only one thinking that Syndra is Bull.

That being said, I tend to think that (ADC) kits, on a very basic level, should not include these three elements together:

High mobility
Good AoE damage
Long range on either abilities or autos.

At least not without having a very significant drawback.

For aforementioned AD carries, I mostly think four main champions have this trait of not having significant drawbacks: Lucian : Spammable mobility via his dash, to the regard that his low AA range isn't a major factor. Strong waveclear with 3 AoE abilities, one that passes through minions one of which deals 400% damage to minions (although the last set of nerfs hit this strength a good deal). High range with 3 of 4 skills. Caitlyn : Very long auto-attack range. Good, long ranged waveclear via pass-through Q. Mobility in her E. A long-ranged point&click damage tool (that can be blocked). Plus, unique secondary utility in persistent, snaring traps. Corki : Long-range, good damage poke in Q and R that doubles for waveclear. Q can't be blocked. High reposition mobility for escapes. Tristana : Resetting jump for mobility. Gets to the highest persistent AA range in the game. E doubles as a good waveclear tool.

Comparing this to other high-mobility AD carries, who lack either one or more of these traits: Ezreal : Lacks non-ult waveclear unless building blue. Vayne : No waveclear at all. Sivir : Short auto-attack range, but unlike Lucian, no (spammable) instant repositioning tools. Boomerang Blade has long range, but isn't as good a fire-and-forget long ranged waveclear tool due to the harsh damage falloff. To devour waves, Sivir needs to get into AA range. Quinn : Shorter than usual AA range. Low waveclear (Q doesn't do too much damage and doesn't pass through minions).

Jinx : Conditionally very mobile, very low mobility otherwise. Long range costs mana and has the drawback of low AS. Long-ranged single target skillshot telegraphed. Edge case, due to high utility (strong CC).

ManDudeMcDudemanNov 12, 201411 votes

I think the biggest issue here is that we don't make mobile champions "pay" for mobility enough in their total power budget. Immobile mages are a good example of this fallout, as you mention.

When you have mobile champions that have the same or similar "raw" power output to a champion without mobility, it creates winners and losers really quickly. I agree here.

In this, I think mobile champions should be more tactically flexible (due to mobility) and have less raw power to compensate. I think, though, this will require more and nerfs and buffs. And will mostly be toning down the raw output of mobility champions (as you mentioned, Syndra and co are bullshit and remove gameplay decision-making due to power factors, so buffing immobile mages is not a good plan).

Preseason 2015 actually does help this in a strategy way in the meantime; jungle ganks, on average, are less frequent, giving less total pressure to immobile characters. This is some of what we saw with more traditional mage mids in Season 2 that we think will buff all these characters a little bit in the meantime.

I don't wanna be that guy and be an asshole when you're trying to help, but you keep saying that you know mobility is a problem, and we just keep seeing new champions released with metric assloads of free mobility, comparable (if not better) damage than the immobile portion of the cast, and no changes to try and fix it. You've been saying this since last year, and it's only gotten worse since then.

When are some nerfs gonna be rolled out already? Words are nice and all, but until mobile champions actually pay for their mobility, a huge portion of your character roster is simply invalidated.

FragglerocNov 10, 201420 votes

I play solely old champs such as Gangplank, Garen... only move speed increase, no dashes and such. Let me tell u- It's hard as hell. I've to figure out fancy ideas to beat the competition.

Rest assured, Mobility has crept in... :P Consider putting old champs on the shelves pls before u revamp them with more mobility.

And no... Sion's rework did not give him enough mobility to be viable.

ThryaleNov 10, 201412 votes

Aye, I've been maining mord and veigar as of late. Veig is fine outside of his huge mana costs, but mord is so easily kited it's sad. :(

VaurenNov 10, 201410 votes

Fun fact for you, Mordekaiser is the only champion to have nothing to do with any kind of movement manipulation be it self speed up, cc, dash or what have you.

Auz the RipperNov 10, 20148 votes

I think he needs a bonus 1.0 ratio on every skill against any champion with a movement ability to compensate

if you have mobility and morde outplays you enough to touch you, the man deserves to insta-gib you

MatthevvNov 10, 201414 votes

Its on the radar but as far as I can remember, Riot is perfectly fine with the mobility creep. They think that giving champions power through mobility is one of the healthiest ways to give a champion power. There have been some red posts on this but I don't remember exactly what they said.

MyrddinDarkNov 10, 20142 votes

Its on the radar but as far as I can remember, Riot is perfectly fine with the mobility creep. They think that giving champions power through mobility is one of the healthiest ways to give a champion power. There have been some red posts on this but I don't remember exactly what they said.

kassadin

EapenatorNov 10, 20145 votes

Kassidin is a very poor example.

Think of Kalista and Yasuo. These champions require them to be in very short range to access their mobility. Outside of this range, they don't have any mobility tools. This means that these champions require the player to be really skilled to maximize their effect, and why , nobody complains about yasuo's e, because utilizing his e to outplay your opponents is an amazing and hard thing to pull off. Kassidin on the other hand, is an example of an outdated design that is inherently flawed, given how hard it is to preserve the mechanic (they have tried everything except removing the skill, and it still feels too strong).

KoboldNov 11, 20147 votes

Kalista... short range.... ahahahahhahahahah

Sivir cries in a corner.

EapenatorNov 11, 20142 votes

siver needs work T.T,

but the fact that Kalista can only use her mobility when she is in 550 distance of a target seems to be a decent enough handicap, though I expect she may be nerfed when she hits live, unless she can't carry games.

KoboldNov 11, 20146 votes

Kalista gets 550 AA range and gets to jump around after EVERY AA for a distance that is boosted by boots tier. Sivir gets 3050 MS which will just barely equal the jump range that kalista gets. BUT kalista can also slow, proc her's from 200 range more than Sivir, dash over some walls with it, and is unaffected by slows (so Far) Kalita also has better base damage on abilities than Sivir but lacks the wave clear that Sivir has. But is compensated for this by having higher base HP, higher scaling HP, higher AD, Higher Armour both base and scaling, Higher Attack speed scaling by double, Higher level 14 mana, and significantly lower mana costs. Not only that but Kalita scales incredibly well with AS while Sivir doesnt as she is more AD based than Kalista.

I don't even understand how Kalista got past the concept phase with her having a straight up better passive than Sivir.

EapenatorNov 11, 20143 votes

I am not disagreeing with you that Sivir needs work, because she definitely needs something.

I just said that recent champions have gotten much better and fairer integration of mobility in their kits than older champions. Sivir just ins't on the priority list for riot at the moment, and looking at their champion update schedule, I doubt she will be for a while.

KoboldNov 11, 20145 votes

sorry if I come off as rude it seems I always come off that way :(

The reason I stated this is that Sivir just got a rework at the end of season 3 so she is relatively fresh and yet they make kalista.

The WhamboozlerNov 11, 20147 votes

Nobody complains about Yasuoi? Since when!? I've heard nothing but complaints about Yasuo since he came out.

MrSc0ttyNov 10, 20149 votes

looks at recent champ releases over the past year and a half

Nope.

gubigubiNov 10, 20148 votes

Honestly riot needs to be looking at everything creep. It seems like every new champion they come out with has more and more built into there kit. I mean look at Gnar Yasuo Azir and now kalista. Champions like are in the group of lee sin and thresh type champions. That just have SO much potential they can take advantage of with there kits It really makes champions that only do 1 thing even less of an option than they already are.

Ad Astra per AspNov 11, 20146 votes

Honestly riot needs to be looking at everything creep. It seems like every new champion they come out with has more and more built into there kit. I mean look at Gnar Yasuo Azir and now kalista. Champions like are in the group of lee sin and thresh type champions. That just have SO much potential they can take advantage of with there kits It really makes champions that only do 1 thing even less of an option than they already are.

I agree new champs are so loaded in their kits. It's because they have more resources and confidence in their ability to execute ideas. But the old champions are so boring and lame in comparison and it effects power level too for sure. They should revisit champions like ashe and load up their kit rather than unload the interesting kits imo. But that has the negative effect of making the huge learning curve even worse. I think riot is suffering an identity crisis. I also think if there's too much loaded kits they won't be picking up new players as often. I play a ton and I'm still confused about all the things thresh does just because he DOES SO MANY THINGS.

MrBuffingtonNov 10, 20147 votes

Riot is well aware of the mobility creep, but from what I've seen, their solution seems to be to give everyone mobility (for example, Soraka's passive gives you a lot of movement speed) or tools to deal with mobility (Soraka's E is pretty good for preventing dashes and also has a root), rather than removing mobility. I feel like they're increasing the skill ceiling on champions so the game is less about stats and more about strategic plays and mechanical strength (for example Sion, Sona, and Soraka reworks).

AnomalousChimeraNov 10, 20143 votes

... Except Sona is not in any way mechanically demanding. In fact, she is mechanically one of the easiest to play in LoL's entire roster of champions.

MrBuffingtonNov 10, 20147 votes

...which is why they changed her so that her kit has some more strategic choices as far as her positioning, etc. compared to what she was before (a floating aura)

EapenatorNov 11, 20143 votes

I think the best term for what riot is implementing is very gated mobility. Instead of having the power to instantly move from one place to another, all the time, in any direction (ezreal), they are creating champions that can access their mobility under certain circumstances. This is why we see older champions likes kassidin, and nidalee have much more toxic utility skills than newer champions like yasuo and kalista. Yes these champions can all out play you through dodging and closing the gap, or escape, but unlike the first 2, the latter is only able to when there is a target within a close range of themselves.

As the game develops and older champions start getting changed, and healthier mobility (and non-mobility) kits are made from reworks, we will see a much more healthier league in terms of mobility. However, as of right now, it is true that champions with Dashes dominate certain categories like for ADC's and mid laners, however, we are starting to see exceptions there as well, aka, twitch, and xerath being very powerful meta champions.

Pvt Yong TaiNov 10, 20147 votes

Knock Creep as well. Kalista makes ANOTHER champion that has some sort of knock-up/knockback.

Sadly, I made a post on Reddit that got a whopping 1800 upvotes and NO Red recognition. I'm giving Kalista a bye because that post was made only about a month or two ago, and Kalista was probably late in development by that point, but if the next champion has mobility/knocks too, I am going to be seriously disappointed (and angry) with Riot.

Here's the post: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2hlgpg/riot_youve_near_forgotten_that_there_are_ccs/

Knight SoIaire Nov 10, 20146 votes

mobility creep gets reduced with every champion released and every rework so its on the radar for sure

ProfDrDeathNov 10, 201424 votes

What?

If anything, new champion (and some champion reworks) contribute to mobility creep. Especially if you look at the last champions released - the only one without a moveblock of some sort is Vel'Koz.

Knight SoIaire Nov 10, 20143 votes

if we get more mobile champions or overall the % of champions with good mobility increases, the mobility creep decreases

DryditchNov 10, 201422 votes

You really don't understand how "creep" works, do you?

I'm gonna go to YGO for a perfect example of "power creep."

Season 1: Ace Monster-Dark Magician. Dark Magician is a "vanilla" monster with no effect, requiring two sacrifices to summon. He has 2500 atk, and 2100 def.

Zexal Season: Ace Monster-Utopia. Summonable on first turn with two level four monsters. He can cancel attacks twice before being destroyed (once for each detached material). 2500 atk, 2000 def.

That is power creep. From a late game powerhouse with a support structure to a first turn zerg rushable monster with an even larger support structure.

Clear?

Moving on to Mobility Creep:

By allowing an increase in the # or % of mobile champions, we increase movement creep because older champions are left behind, or, more accurately, because they are more mobile than the original champions were when released.

Knight SoIaire Nov 10, 20142 votes

yup and riot makes old champs more mobile which removes mobility creep

EapenatorNov 10, 201418 votes

You are kind of missing the point,

Mobility creep alludes to the fact that if Mobility becomes common for every champion, then there will be a subset of champions with weaker mobility that will need to be buffed. If riot then buffs their mobility, then another tier of champions will then have the weakest mobility and so on. It leads to the developers constantly buffing the mobility of the weakest champion until it becomes a power struggle in each patch.

What league has right now is older champions with lower mobility, and newer champions with very high mobility. If we just continue to change each champion and introduce mobility into them, there will always be another set of champions that will then need to be buffed because their mobility doesn't cut it out anymore. It can work in some cases (ex. Dota has alot of power creep, where weaker champions get straight up buffed, as opposed to strong champions getting toned down) however, it leads to very stale gameplay and only a few champions being viable at the same time.

Knight SoIaire Nov 10, 20141 votes

so basicaly nothing changes, then whats the problem ?

JevelFaithfulNov 10, 20147 votes

Putting it another way, mobility creep is the tendency for the game to have more and more mobility. It's achieved by making new champions with strong mobility and by giving mobility to those that "lack mobility". The thing is that there will always be champs that "lack mobility" and those will keep getting buff.

Season 1 : 30% of the roster had mobility option. (Made up number) And those that had them had it as part of their identity.

End-Season 4 : 10% of champs actually don't have mobility. Even immobile champions get some form of strong/free mobility. (Looking at adc like Kalista)

FeatherztormNov 10, 20148 votes

so basicaly nothing changes, then whats the problem ?

This dude's an idiot. Just don't explain any further on why it's a problem.

SkiasNov 10, 201429 votes

Even Tanks like Braum are getting leaps lol.

Kivin100Nov 11, 20143 votes

I'm really worried that Riot has completely forgotten how valuable mobility is, especially with champions like Kalista and Yasuo who have dashes on virtually nonexistent cooldowns which cost nothing.

The trouble is, given how powerful mobile champions are, Immobile champions tend to only be good if they're overpowered (Read: Syndra, Ryze) and otherwise there will basically always be a champion who does the same thing but with mobility.

Is this something that Riot has said anything about for the upcoming months?

To see if I could put the argument to rest, I went ahead and analyzed 44 of League's first champions, and 44 of its most recent releases as well. My work is available at: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HAIeXQsD3_YQyVMo3sWNoE2Y1OfEelI9fv3h4ryNeYg/edit?usp=sharing

The earliest releases were Morgana through Gragas, in chronological order. **47% were mobile, 53% were not. 16% had situational mobility through their ultimates. **

The newest releases were Azir through Yorick, in reverse chronological order. 59% were mobile, 41% were not. 11% get their mobility through their ultimates.

My litmus test for whether a champ is mobile was: If ambushed, could this champ reliably escape? Could this champ reliably get on top of an opponent?

Early League had the likes of Nidalee, Udyr, Shaco, Jax and Alistar. Modern League has had the likes of Hecarim, Zed, Zac, and virtually all of the new releases.

On a year-by-year resolution, there does not appear to be a significant mobility creep; however new releases give the impression that mobility is definitely a defining factor on the new champion production-line.

It's also worth noting that many of the most mobile champions have become, or remained, quite situational picks with dubious win rates. It could be worth asking whether their kits are over nerfed to offset their mobility.

DrakexionyxNov 11, 20144 votes

I contend your definition of situational.

Of the ones you mentioned, Jax and Alistar require a target to use their leaps on, which is also situational, just not on a long CD like that of an (average) ultimate.

Hecarim, Zed, Zac, Jarvan, Riven of then new era all do not. I haven't statistically looked at every champ in those 40 brackets you specified, but I feel that if you do that, you will find your results becoming more significant. Feel free to prove me wrong on that gut feeling though if I am.

You also forgot the important distinction of BEING ABLE TO DODGE. Anyone with only a self movement speed buff like Udyr, Malphite, and to a lesser extent champs like Rammus, Hecarim and Nidalee have considerably less ability to avoid damage and critically, CC, because they lack the quick position changing dash or blink of champs like Katarina, Yasuo, Elise, and all the afore mentioned, not to mention the ability to traverse walls without using flash...

My point is that there is a lot more factors to the determining of mobility creep than just those you have used as a basis for passing your 'mobile' requirement.

DrakexionyxNov 11, 201411 votes

My litmus test for whether a champ is mobile was: If ambushed, could this champ reliably escape? Could this champ reliably get on top of an opponent?

Early League had the likes of Nidalee, Udyr, Shaco, Jax and Alistar. Modern League has had the likes of Hecarim, Zed, Zac, and virtually all of the new releases.

On a year-by-year resolution, there does not appear to be a significant mobility creep; however new releases give the impression that mobility is definitely a defining factor on the new champion production-line.

It's also worth noting that many of the most mobile champions have become, or remained, quite situational picks with dubious win rates. It could be worth asking whether their kits are over nerfed to offset their mobility.

Okay here it is, my statistics for the same champions you listed: The oldest and the newest 44, observing mobility creep (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AkSyK_CP8NBpI95u_6XaMiHceKG0dZ-TjRXKubxtGBM/edit?usp=sharing).

Of the original 44:

34.09% have MS buffs (I included Warwick, Nidalee and Malphite in this, despite each requiring specific targets/situations in which to use theirs);
29.55% have dashes/blinks (I made a note of which are target abilities in the chart);
22.73% have ults which grant them movement;
2.78% (only 4 champions) have multiple mobility abilities;
A total of 34, 77.27%, have mobility abilities of some sort.

Of the latest 44:

27.27% have MS buffs (Including Fiora, Viktor and Jinx, again despite the target/situational requirement);
61.36% have dashes/blinks (including Diana, as her ult is on such a short CD);
29.55% have movement ability ultimates (not including Diana in this number, see above);
45.45% (20!) of these champions have multiple mobility abilities (Including Diana and Ahri's spammable multiple ult casts);
A total of 38, 86.36%, of the 44 newest champions have mobility abilities of some sort.

NOTABLE TRENDS:

Total champions with mobility abilities is up by 11.776%
Champions with MS buff abilities down by 20.00%
Champions with Dash/Blink abilities up by 107.69%
Multiple mobility abilities on champions up by 400.00% ^ (This last stat is particularly damning. It used to be incredibly rare, now nearly 1 in 2 champions have multiple abilities to move around).

TL;DR MOBILITY CREEP IS CONFIRMED. Learn to interpret and collate data before acting smart.

Arc NoirNov 12, 20142 votes

My problem with this situation is that Riot does often recognize it and point out that it's an issue and something that they're doing wrong... But then do nothing about it and release a champion with a kind of silly amount of mobility.

Then they leave it alone a couple of months until someone brings it up again and they go "yeah it's still a problem" but it's just kind a loop that feeds onto it's self. Especially when the new champions get SO MUCH mobility now a days it feels like it's almost necessary on the kit... which is their own design flaw.

The solution is pretty tough and would require a lot of work but why doesn't Riot just like... Try? Trying would be cool. I like trying. :(

Also, please stop saying this is an issue at the same time while you're releasing a champ with INFINITE DASHES. It does sound like your left hand and right hand aren't even on the same page.

RiotMorelloNov 12, 20143 votes

It's a problem, but the problem is the cost-benefit - not that "people can have lots of mobility." I think the right action on Kallista is make sure she's weaker at other things for having it, personally.

mi ramfanNov 12, 20148 votes

I mean, I think the issue everyone else in this thread is bringing up is that there's an acknowledgement of mobility creep pretty much every time someone brings it up, but nothing ever actually gets done about it. So we keep having this issue where there's very little reason to pick an immobile champion ever, because for 90% of immobile champions either

A. There exists another champion that does the same thing the immobile champion does while being mobile; for example, why would I ever pick Udyr (a high-damage jungler with 1 hard CC) when I could pick Vi (another high-damage jungler with mobility and a hard CC).

B. They are screwed over so hard by enemy mobility that their advantages compared to the mobile champions are completely irrelevant. Take, for example, Ashe. She does something that no other mobile champion in the game does (ranged permaslow) but she's still not pickable because if the other team picks any kind of mobile assassin she's just going to feed them kill after kill.

Let's take a look at some of the other members of the immobile champion roster for some more examples.

: The immobility poster boy and IIRC the only champion to never be selected in any LCS game ever. Yeah, he will burst 2-3 people for 75% of their health in a teamfight. There is no reason to pick him over someone like Kennen (who bursts their entire team AND brings CC AND has mobility) or Xerath (who will also burst your team, but will do it from twice as far away as Brand).

Galio : He has an amazing ult and amazing utility overall in his kit. The problem is, unlike a Kennen or Wukong, he has no way to ever actually get in range to use his ult. There isn't really much reason to pick him when other champions have easier, more reliable engages.

Jinx : She has every tool you could possibly want if you were trying to win bot lane while scaling into late game. But without mobility she simply can't do anything about someone like Zed or Yasuo. I know these characters are meant to be her counters but it still feels really stupid to win lane, get to mid/late game, go 100 range too close and get blown up before I can actually do anything in response.

Udyr : Good luck trying to get in range to fight anyone ever. Udyr used to be one of the top guys for early damage because his Q procs were so strong. Every new champion who comes out with a gap closer weakened him, reducing the number of times where it was viable to pick him. Then Vi came out with obscene early damage of her own, decent jungle sustain, and actual gap closers, and there was no longer any reason to play Udyr.

This is kind of a short list, and that's intentional. I didn't want to drag out this list too long because there are some immobile champions who are good ( Orianna because her kit is obscene, KogMaw because he deals so much damage that it's worth protecting him, Blitzcrank because he just brings you to him) but also because there are so many champions with other issues to deal with in the immobile champion pool and bringing them up just feels like a cheap shot ( Gangplank Mordekaiser Urgot Yorick ).

TL;DR actions speak louder then words

MickNightNov 12, 20145 votes

Lucian Lucian Lucian Lucian Lucian Lucian Lucian Lucian Lucian

"I think the right action on Kallista is make sure she's weaker at other things for having it, personally." -Morello 11/12/14

You should change you should change your name to Trololololol. because the same thing was said about this guy Lucian making that statement best joke NA.