Let's play the "What Will Be Removed from CertainlyT's Champion's Kit Game"

iTams·Nov 4, 2014·38 votes·5,034 views

For example:

Yasuo lost his flow gain on his W
Darius has a time limit to his ult before going on CD
Thresh's lantern doesn't do AoE shield (only shields himself and another) and only 1 wall does damage
Zed only has 1 clone rather than 3 on his ult

So, what will we see removed from Kalista in the patches after her release because she will be 90% be for sure broken once people know how to play her?

(Let's not rush to conclusions of Kalista being weak, see: Zed and Yasuo)

142 Comments

AnonagonNov 4, 201432 votes

She'll get a CD on passive, or a stack limit on E

Crimson5pheonixNov 5, 201422 votes

Well if it follows CertainlyT's average, she'll come out and be considered weak.

"Too hard to play" "Too reliant on team"

Then she'll get buffed, people will have figured out how to play her, and the baddies that were saying she was bad will be all

"Too much damage" "Such easy mode" "Rito plz"

And laughs will be had.

Kuroi86Nov 4, 201418 votes

I'm more concerned about how quickly she'll be thrown into the useless pile until the pros pick her up. A good chunk of your kit relies on an ally... now remember, we're talking soloque here...

Rinky DinkyNov 5, 20147 votes

Don't play her in soloque.

Problem Solved.

People act like Soloque is the game, and newsflash, its not.

CenturosNov 5, 201415 votes

Newsflash, it is at least half of the game for many people.

Rinky DinkyNov 5, 20146 votes

That leaves another 50% for Kalista to shine baby <3

Kuroi86Nov 5, 20145 votes

You're right, but tell that to all the yoloque people.

Oh good grief I feel terrible for typing that word. >_<

Anyways, it simply points out how hard Riot is trying to push people to play together instead of trying to play the hero all the time.

Lumus AvatarNov 5, 20144 votes

You should feel bad for typing it.

You typed it wrong. It should be spelt yoloqueue. Cuz the word is queue, not que.

You're all good, otherwise :)

Kuroi86Nov 5, 20144 votes

That wasn't the half of that particular phrase that bothers me. >_<

AmightyTNov 5, 20142 votes

Duo que?

doviendeNov 5, 20143 votes

It'll be the same as with Thresh. It was months and months later that people were still saying "OMG CLICK THE LANTERN" all the time. After a while, people will get it.

Kuroi86Nov 5, 20144 votes

I'm still waiting for people to realize that they can drop pink wards in Akali' shroud. o.0

RaptameiNov 4, 20148 votes

Or she will just remain dominant for the next 2 years. #lcsbigplays

HayaishiNov 4, 20148 votes

Her passive won't be removed cause "Muh identity"

So i guess she will just receive number changes.

JunkοNov 5, 20143 votes

Just like Yasuo, which won't fix anything because numbers can't fix a broken ability

wolfaxNov 6, 20141 votes

An ability that finally made the first viable melee ADC.

JunkοNov 7, 20141 votes

So CC'ing your ADC and dealing 500+ damage to them(then Qing and AAing once to finish them off) because Trundle placed a pillar on top of them is balanced? Yasuo ult seriously needs to get a fix at what he can ult to, then revert to half his number nerfs.

Rinky DinkyNov 5, 20147 votes

I find is really annoying that every champ this guy makes has the most overloaded kits in League History,

Like holy fuck dude, calm down.

Yasuo is a complete and utter mess right now. I'm not sure if people are banning him because he is OP or he is just cancer to deal with right now.

I'd say Darius is the least cancerous of his creations (Not counting Thresh) , but he was the definition of OP when he first came out.

Thresh is fine, and I found his wall nerf to be a bit much. I mean if someone walks through more than one of his walls, he deserves to take that damage.

SkiasNov 5, 20148 votes

I completely agree. The excuse is that CertainlyT brings new and refreshing mechanics, but I find that hard to see when it's buried under True Damage, Max Health %, Free Armor Pen and Double Crit. He just loads the shit out of his champions so that older champs can't even compete. He does need to chill out and respect his power budget, because holy fuck.

ZekromEXNov 4, 20146 votes

..... you guy's keep saying she's broken and yet have you played her? no? then what are you complaining about? You know how bad Gnar is under a person who know's how to play him? you're mad because Daruis's Ult (which i've seen used multiple times on my whole team) is getting a little cool down? You're mad because Yasuo is already OP as all hell is getting a little less flow? You get flow while moving so what the hell? I don't remember Zed ever being able to summon more than one clone I wanna see the games you've been playing because Zed having 3 clones sounds OP as all hell. So tell me Why nerf a champion because you think in about 2 years someone's gonna be good enough to play her? because Her fucking passive allow's her to jump a short distance? OH my god holy shit her fucking Normal attacks don't cancel out if she moves! WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO!? It's sad to see that you want to break a champion that's just came out of the gate all because you're worried about Motherfuckers being too good with her.

iTamsNov 4, 201428 votes

She's designed by CertainlyT, what more do we have to say.

ZekromEXNov 4, 20147 votes

Obviously nothing considering you're considering Breaking a champion who isn't out yet, I'm beginning to see why New champions coming out are Hugely a no go.

A Slime AppearsNov 4, 201417 votes

Every champ he makes has to be nerfed again and again and still doesn't suck (Yasuo, Thresh, Darius, Zyra, Zed). There's no reason to believe Kalista will be different with a track record like that.

BoswickNov 5, 20146 votes

It'll either be her passive or E. That passive is one of the most broken things you could put on an adc, and Thresh got his infinite scaling nerfed.

ThePurpleKnightNov 4, 20144 votes

This seems like the least overloaded champion from CertainlyT (aside from maybe Thresh) I mean W would be super lack luster if it only did 1 of the 2, and the rest seems like it only does one thing right? I guess they'd probably limit stacks of Kalistas expunge. Twitch can do 5 but she has no limit.

DrogmyreNov 5, 20144 votes

Keep in mind: most of CertainlyT's champs don't look broken at first (except maybe darius.)

Let's see her in game before we decide she's not OP.

JunkοNov 7, 20141 votes

Darius was never broken, he was just a noob stomper, and he was WAY too ridiculously good at it.

Zyra however was broken as fuck, though mainly because the balance team(not CertainlyT) gave her way too huge numbers.

SkiasNov 5, 20143 votes

His champions tend to launch super overloaded, and need to be trimmed. It just seems like no one edits his kits early enough and they get to the field packed full of mechanics. I would rather Yasuo have lost some crit and kept his dash shield build up. I'm surprised they opted to keep a completely fluff stat steroid like his crit over his dashing shield.

JunkοNov 5, 20142 votes

If Yasuo lost his double crit, there would be no reason to play him over other AD mids, his Q (which is just an autoattack) is his only damage spell, Talon has 2 and an amplifier, Zed has 2 and a spell that can double it, Pantheon has 3, most AP mids have 3.

Even Tryndamere would be better to play as mid(you would probably still get shit over though), he has 35% free crit at level 1 and no damage reduction, he has a heal, a damage reduce, his gapcloser actually deals damage and his ult makes him immortal for a while.

However i do think they should have just removed the shield refresh on ult they gave him and keep the dash shield charge mechanic.

Ale non è maleNov 5, 20143 votes

Increased damage in crit instead of double crit chance would have been perfectly viable, would have encouraged yasuo to build uncommon items(Exec, Yomuu, even Atma if he would have wanted to go tankier), and would have not created an wakward situation when he got 100% crit chance with 2 items(2 common and powerful items, which is even worse as it just make even flatter his item path and allow him to basically get a power spike that is stronger than anyone else with 2 items which was unneeded and not designed to go this way)

Shield refresh on ulti should be removed, I agree

JunkοNov 5, 20141 votes

I think more dmg on crit would be broken. I already do build Yomuu on Yasuo, good sticking power and it increases his AS for a short duration(allowing you to land more crits, if the crits dealt more damage then you just need to find 1 crit item, might aswell be Trinity). Also i don't even want to imagine the terror of Sword of Divine rush Yasuo if he gets more damage on crits based on his crit chance.

Ale non è maleNov 5, 20142 votes

You build Yomuu after IE and Shiv? Do you know you are wasting money because without the value from crit it becomes like the least gold efficient item in the game, and also as slot efficiency it becomes unviable, as if you want about the same amount of AD + even more AS + MS witout having the last ones on CD you can just get Zephyr and get Tenacity for the armor pen or get lifesteal and AS with BoTRK or get the Trinity and the spellblade effect with no CD?

Yasuo automatically get a hugee lead and stay ahead untile the games goes 50 + minutes and everyone get to 6 items because he can snowball hugely out of this lead, and he got this for free. No way there is anything more broken than that. And they have been then forced to overnerf anything else to not touch tat, making him either hugely useless or hugely OP

JunkοNov 5, 20145 votes

Sorry didn't know there was only way to build a champion and that i ABSOLUTELY had to follow it

MrBuffingtonNov 5, 20142 votes

While Kalista certainly(T, heh) doesn't seem weak (at all, by any stretch of the imagination), I don't think her kit is as overloaded as Yasuo (the guy gets double crit chance. Why). I'm inclined to agree with most people here though; her E or passive will probably take some sort of hit, maybe a range reduction on her passive, or some sort of limit on E (either a hard limit or some sort of damage fall off, sort of like how Azir's soldiers do less damage if more than one are attacking the same target). I get the feeling that nothing is going to be outright removed, but instead a large portion of her damage is going to be nerfed and she's going to be really dependent on her support, if she actually proves to be toxic OP

EDIT: Surrender@20 just put out some more info on her as she is on PBE currently. I might have to retract some of my statements. Good lord this champion is stacked. Her passive dash actually scales with her boot rank. Not to mention she can't cancel her auto attacks (both a blessing and a curse, I guess, but probably more of a blessing, given that she can reposition herself so much better than any other ADC). Her Pierce has this mechanic where you can stack up Rend on one target and Q it for the kill, which then carries all the stacks onto the next enemy in Pierce's path. Her W passive has a cooldown and both attacks need to be within a certain time, but does %max health damage, quite a bit, it seems too (12% at lvl 1, not sure if it scales with ranks). Given her mobility and Q poke, I can't imagine it's hard to follow up on support harass. Her E does still stack indefinitely, and doesn't appear to disappear if you switch targets (as far as I can tell). At least the stacks disappear after a few seconds and extra stacks only deal 20% damage, so there is sort of a limit built into it, based on your attack speed, and each additional spear does reduced damage, her ult also doesn't appear to deal damage, and base damages (possibly ratios too, not sure, Q seems ~1.0AD, E seems ~0.7AD?) on her spells seem on the lower end, so I guess those are some things.

Sire HippingtonNov 5, 20142 votes

yep, that passive scales with boots, and with some AS u can dash more often than yasuo... Q got 10/70/130/190/250+1.0 total-ad on 8 sec cd(and that pirecing mechanic) W does 12/14/16/18/20% maxhealth with a 8sec cd per target E has 20/35/50/65/80+ 0.6 total ad and 16/14/12/10/8sec cd, each aditional sprea increses damage by 20/25/30/35/40%, infinte stacking on multiple targets possible, works with hurricane, and every spear actually sticks in the target, having 20 spears in a dragon is awsome. Can't say much about the ult, only played a botgame so far

MrBuffingtonNov 5, 20141 votes

Thanks for the update (my estimated ratios weren't too far off :P). Not sure if they'd go this direction, but the mana costs on her E seem really low. From what I've seen of gameplay and read, looks like a good farming tool and trading tool, but I dunno if they'll consider bumping up the mana costs and adding mana refund on kill, so it's still useful for farming, but burns through mana if you trade too much.

Sigh. I've been holding off on buying Lucian since I saw the leak, also I just don't think Lucian is that fun, so I was really excited for Kalista. I just get the feeling that she's going to be perma banned for the next six months while she gets systematically nerfed.

JunkοNov 5, 20141 votes

i don't think she will be perma banned, especially since she relies mostly on teamwork, good luck finding teamwork in gold and below games

MrBuffingtonNov 5, 20143 votes

I feel like she'll be permabanned for the same reason Yasuo gets permabanned; it's more to do with the illusion of power, more so than the actual power of the champion (ie. whether they're actually currently strong is not as important as how strong they appear to be. Champions like Yasuo get banned out a lot even though their win rates are pretty low, but they make flashy plays and delete champions when ahead. It's the psychological factor). If you're a melee bruiser with little gap-close ability and you go up against that one smurf Kalista player who's just running circles around you with her passive, you're probably going to think she's stupidly broken and permaban her.

Crimson5pheonixNov 5, 20143 votes

I feel like she'll be permabanned for the same reason Yasuo gets permabanned; it's more to do with the illusion of power, more so than the actual power of the champion (ie. whether they're actually currently strong is not as important as how strong they appear to be. Champions like Yasuo get banned out a lot even though their win rates are pretty low, but they make flashy plays and delete champions when ahead. It's the psychological factor). If you're a melee bruiser with little gap-close ability and you go up against that one smurf Kalista player who's just running circles around you with her passive, you're probably going to think she's stupidly broken and permaban her.

This so hard. These champs aren't OP and they have glaring flaws in their kit, but when they win, they win in style.

FeathermaneNov 5, 20142 votes

Champions like Lee Sin and Yasuo have a lot fewer flaws in their kit than stumps like Darius.

Crimson5pheonixNov 5, 20142 votes

Darius was designed by CertainlyT and Lee Sin wasn't. Though I will agree that Darius is easily the weakest of Certainly's champs.

MrBuffingtonNov 6, 20141 votes

Though I will agree that Darius is easily the weakest of Certainly's champs.

*Right now. I wasn't around at the time, but I've heard horror stories of release Darius.

Crimson5pheonixNov 6, 20142 votes

Though I will agree that Darius is easily the weakest of Certainly's champs.

*Right now. I wasn't around at the time, but I've heard horror stories of release Darius.

I was around for release Darius. He wasn't that bad. Kind of annoying with the half second grace period, but that got patched out and he was fine. Unless you were bad, then you came to the forums to bitch about him for a year or so 9_9

I still have nightmares.

MrBuffingtonNov 6, 20141 votes

I still have nightmares.

lol brace yourself for the Kalista QQ

Sidenote: I honestly can't tell if she's overpowered at the moment. I feel like the W passive damage could be taken down a notch (her synergy with Sona sounds a little scary; Sona's empowered Q autos with the W passive can probably chunk someone for half their health lvl 1, not to mention wombo-combo ults), and the mobility scaling with boots removed (this feels like the most glaringly overloaded part of her kit, imo, but I don't know how her dashes scale into mid-late game. Sidenote-ception: I don't know why she can dash over walls, especially if Vayne can't), but I haven't gotten a chance to play her yet, so I'm not totally sure

Crimson5pheonixNov 6, 20143 votes

I still have nightmares.

lol brace yourself for the Kalista QQ

Sidenote: I honestly can't tell if she's overpowered at the moment. I feel like the W passive damage could be taken down a notch (her synergy with Sona sounds a little scary; Sona's empowered Q autos with the W passive can probably chunk someone for half their health lvl 1, not to mention wombo-combo ults), and the mobility scaling with boots removed (this feels like the most glaringly overloaded part of her kit, imo, but I don't know how her dashes scale into mid-late game. Sidenote-ception: I don't know why she can dash over walls, especially if Vayne can't), but I haven't gotten a chance to play her yet, so I'm not totally sure

We'll see. It'll take a lot of QQ, I'm pretty dead inside already.

As to whether she's OP or not, she's not. Not even close. Mostly because nobody here is using her numbers.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kalista

Did you know her W passive can't proc on a target more than once every 8 seconds? That her W active isn't affected by CDR? That her spears only last for 4 seconds in a target? That you can't lodge spears in a target if her E's on CD? That her E does less damage for every spear past the first? That her Q does shit damage for the first few ranks?

This little tidbit: Kalista cannot cancel her basic attacks, but they will miss if she loses sight of her target before they hit.

She's the only champ in the game with that limitation to my knowledge. BRUSH ABUSE, AWAY!

MrBuffingtonNov 6, 20141 votes

I do feel like people are overstating her strengths, but I also feel like you're overstating her weaknesses.

I agree damages on Q and E actually seem fine (I personally feel like she's better compared to utility ADCs like Ashe, rather than hypercarries like Vayne). I've been reading and watching everything I can on her so far; that's why the only things I've picked out as potentially overtuned/overloaded are the early game damage on her W passive and the mobility scaling with boots.

I've seen a few PBE games of her, and it does seem like melee champions even without a dash (ie. Skarner, so long as they have a proper opening and don't just mindlessly rush her) can still get on her when she's kiting; whether that's a lack of familiarity with her mechanics or actually an intended part of the game, I'm not sure

As for the W damage, solo-q players might not utilize it as well, but I feel like a lvl 1 trade with a Sona (Sona's Q + powerchord empowered auto + spellthief's proc x 2 + Kalista's empowered auto + 12% max health from W passive) can chunk a person for half their health, which, at the highest levels of competitive play, can probably outright win a lane. Synergy with other supports is probably less drastic, but still fairly potent.

Crimson5pheonixNov 6, 20142 votes

I do feel like people are overstating her strengths, but I also feel like you're overstating her weaknesses.

I agree damages on Q and E actually seem fine (I personally feel like she's better compared to utility ADCs like Ashe, rather than hypercarries like Vayne). I've been reading and watching everything I can on her so far; that's why the only things I've picked out as potentially overtuned/overloaded are the early game damage on her W passive and the mobility scaling with boots.

I've seen a few PBE games of her, and it does seem like melee champions even without a dash (ie. Skarner, so long as they have a proper opening and don't just mindlessly rush her) can still get on her when she's kiting; whether that's a lack of familiarity with her mechanics or actually an intended part of the game, I'm not sure

As for the W damage, solo-q players might not utilize it as well, but I feel like a lvl 1 trade with a Sona (Sona's Q + powerchord empowered auto + spellthief's proc x 2 + Kalista's empowered auto + 12% max health from W passive) can chunk a person for half their health, which, at the highest levels of competitive play, can probably outright win a lane. Synergy with other supports is probably less drastic, but still fairly potent.

Maybe, but 12% HP magic damage isn't a whole lot at level 1. Especially since she has to get up close to do that at level 1. It's the kind of play that can backfire horribly. Which means a month or two after release when people figure out how to use her, she'll do that to the whiners on here and they'll complain about the OP damage when the obvious answer will be "why didn't you shoot her?"

JevelFaithfulNov 6, 20142 votes

+1 for illusion of power. Haven't played in a while so I can't double check, but that's a big reasonbehind the permaban list for sure.

JunkοNov 5, 20141 votes

don't think her kit is as overloaded as Yasuo (the guy gets double crit chance. Why).

Tryndamere gets 35% FREE without any damage reduction, stop bringing that up when trying to say Yasuo is OP. The only OP thing about him is that his ultimate can be chained to almost every displacement in the game instead of just knock ups like it was supposed to(Trundle Pillar? you can ult to that, Blitz grab? you can ult to that, etc....)

Ale non è maleNov 5, 20142 votes

Trynda has to manage to keep attacking and stay in combat to always have max Fury (and thus max crit chance) up He does not come from base having all the Fury up and being able to enter the battle with increased 35% crit chance

Stop saying bullshit, Trynda crit chance boost require gameplay management(if you stay passive you don't get Fury aka crit chance, but there are clearly situations where he'll put himself in big danger to keep Fury up) so it's an healthy mechanic. It isn't even close to Yasuo that gets 100% crit chance by building 2 very common items + runes