Can we please stop having knock ups on every single new champion?

iTams·11/25/2014, 9:13:16 PM·195 votes·55,714 views

Knock ups should be a rare CC in this game because it is an uncleansable CC that lacks counterplay entirely.

Not to mention that all the knock ups recently are all AoE, now this new champion has another AoE knock up.

235 Comments

Kuroi8611/25/2014, 10:14:56 PM58 votes

Aatrox Alistar Azir Blitzcrank Braum Chogath Darius Diana Draven Gnar Gragas Hecarim Janna JarvanIV Jayce Kalista LeeSin Lulu Malphite Maokai Nautilus Orianna Poppy Shyvana Singed Sion Skarner Syndra Thresh Tristana Vayne Velkoz Volibear MonkeyKing XinZhao Zac Ziggs Yasuo Zyra Displacement CC, SUPER RARE!!!

RiotMeddler11/26/2014, 9:20:57 AM42 votes

Hey all,

Wanted to throw in some of our thoughts on displacements here for a bit of context, given they're definitely a CC type we're using more that has both some costs and some benefits to the game relative to other types of CC.

First off, some details on why we've been using displacements more/what we feel the benefits of displacements are:

Displacements are clear. Having the unit(s) affected move makes it clear who a spell's hit and, provided the displacement arc or knockback distance is understandable, helps all players involved track the duration of the CC as well.
Displacements are visceral. A knockup can often feel better for the caster than a significantly longer duration stun, leading to better satisfaction from the same power budget.
Displacements, if there's a noticeable amount of knockback included, add some extra play to how a spell's used, giving players more ways to optimize and more options to play around. Not all hits are equal basically (e.g. a great knockback, versus an ok knockback versus a terrible knockback that helps the enemy), giving another point of mastery for players of the champion in question.

On the cost side:

Displacements over large distances can make it harder to track where champions, your own especially when moved suddenly against your will, are in a busy fight. Using relatively short range displacement helps avoid this being a significant cost however.
Displacements diminish the value of Tenacity and Cleanse. That means players have fewer responses against them.
With regards to Tenacity, item based counterplay tends to be relatively poor if the item's not one that changes your gameplay noticeably (e.g. Zhonya's via its active, Bloodthirster since sustain modifies how you look to trade/fight, Boots of Mobility significantly impact how you initiate, ward etc) since it's otherwise just a single decision, based off team comp and lane match up. Tenacity items don't have a particularly significant impact on playstyle however, so the loss of interesting gameplay there's pretty limited.Tenacity's also harder to access for many classes (deliberately), so often irrelevant, and the vast majority of the counterplay associated with CC is almost always to avoid the skill in question (whether by dodging, staying out of range, not being a tempting target etc).
Cleanses not removing displacements by contrast is a higher cost and one it's important to be aware of, particularly with regard to champions with burst who'll potentially kill a target within the duration of a single CC.

Some other notes:

CC durations on new champs/major reworks nowadays are generally significantly shorter than those used on the original 40 champs. In terms of raw numbers new champions will tend to have more displacements than the original lineup, but those will tend to be of shorter durations (we're trending away from abilities like Morgana's Dark Binding, Rammus' Puncturing Taunt or Fiddlestick's Fear with extremely long CC durations via a single skill).
Displacements do interrupt dashes/leaps in progress which gives them extra power relative to most other CCs. Having counter mobility options like that in the game as a common tool's got significant value however and as above that power's offset against shorter CC durations.
Like many other effects displacements do lose some of their value as a tool when used too often and we have certainly gone through a solid run of champions with displacement on their kits. The next champ up after Rek'Sai will almost certainly not have a knockback or knockup and it's highly likely that the champ after that won't either. We'll definitely continue to use displacements where, as above, it's appropriate, they're not something that should be found on every new character however.

Droogzy11/25/2014, 9:40:09 PM36 votes

Generally I agree the knock ups are getting excessive, but given the nature of this new champion, knock ups make perfect sense on the champion considering it is attacking from underground.

Rathia11/25/2014, 11:53:26 PM29 votes

I'll just leave this right here...

Hellioning11/26/2014, 5:11:34 AM27 votes

I feel that knock ups are so common for two reasons.

It's flashy. It's simply more visually interesting, as a player or a spectator. You can easily go 'why can't Garen move? Because he's in the air!' instead of 'Why can't Garen move? Well, he was hit by a stunning flash of light.'
It allows Riot to more easily control how long someone is CC'd. If someone is knocked up for 1.25 seconds, they are guaranteed to be knocked up for 1.25 seconds. Stuns face tenacity, so that 1.25 stun can last as short as .2 seconds with the right set up. Honestly, I feel this is a problem with tenacity rather than a problem with stuns.

I find the sheer amount of knockups boring, from both a variety perspective and a 'I hate Yasuo' perspective, but I can see why they use it. But honestly, I'd rather they figure out ways for alternative CC to work instead of just throwing a knock up on everybody.

Colgate Gator11/25/2014, 10:07:34 PM21 votes

Every single Champion after Yasuo has a displacement skill.

These Yaso LCS plays won't make themselves.

Bears Dont Care11/25/2014, 10:31:00 PM18 votes

Hi, my name is Yasuo . Did you recently just get displaced? I can ult off that!

Thresh pull? Yeah I can ult off it. Vi's Q? I can ult off that there.

DefenderOfFaith11/25/2014, 11:27:26 PM15 votes

If Ghostcrawler joining League is any indication, you'll get a knockup, then a knockup-immunity, then a knockup that that knocks through the knockup immunity called a 'slamify' effect.

[warlock reference]

Also, to 'diversify gameplay', Nidalee will get a stun in both human and cougar, in which by alternating between the two she can crown control someone indefinitely.

Oh please, bring your WoW expertise to League.

ZekromEX11/25/2014, 9:22:57 PM1 votes

but... those are only two champs gnar didn't have a knock up.