Lol you must be trolling, this does not mean im wrong.
The argument is worth as much for Vayne as it was for Yasuo x)
All of his mains claimed that he was alright cept 1 or two things, everyone else? A different story.
When you go into lane against Vayne the general person doesn't think "oh alright it's a vayne", what one instead thinks "oh shit it's a vayne, better end the game before 15 minutes or get raped".
Pretty much the exact same thing as with Yasuo whenever he is even decent.
Most other ADC/Marksmen have some kind of dmg abilty or range buff so they can safely deal damage outside of 550 range. Here i will list some of the abilities** over 550 range **for you since you have a hard time comprehending what range means:
Ashe: Q and R
Cait: Autos, Q, W, E and R
Corki: Q, E and R
Draven: E and R
Ezreal: Q and R
Graves: Q, W and R
Jhin: All his abilities can deal damage outside of his +550 range
Jinx: Rockets give up to 700 range, W, E and R also +550 range
Kalista: Q, E and R can throw support for 1200 range
Kindred: Scaling Range with Autos and E
Kogmaw: Q, W, E and R
Lucian: Q, W and R
MF: Q, E and R
Quinn: YES her Q has 1025 range, Vault has 625 Range, R dmg has 700 range
Sivir: Q and W
Tristana: Autos Scaling, E and R also scaling range.
Twitch: W, E and R
Varus: Q, E and R
Xayah: Q (1100), E is global, R (1100)
LOL Even Urgot can do dmg outside of 550 range with his Q and R
Who cares about Laning though? Lane phase ends at 1,5 items these days, used to end at 2-3.
Which means that auto attacks becomes the main factor at about 1 item.
And Ashe W doesn't really deal any damage by itself unless she spams the heal out of it and drains her mana bar, the idea is that you either auto attack-W- or the reverse, as she needs to apply her passive to actually deal any damage.
Why even bother listing those who have a base range that goes over vayne or range enhancement that goes over her when i already did?
And Vayne has so much maneuverability thanks to her Q that dodging stuff in lane is fairly easy, unless it's a wide AOE skill like say Ashe W.
And what does range matter really? Once Vayne get's IE+ static she can 2 hit any of the champs you listed and only Draven can hope to fight back.....except Graves who might die in 3-4 hits.
Now look at Vayne: Her only targeted ability is E (condemn) which has 550 range. So every other marksman can do damage (Have Influence) outside of 550 range, which makes Vayne the lowest ranged adc in the game and gives her a really bad laning phase and makes her very susceptible to enemy dmg and cc. What you dont understand is, playing adc is not only about using auto attack, especially in the early game and the beginning of teamfights, ADC tend to stay back and poke, and wait for important cooldowns to go down. Vayne cant do this, she needs to get close to do Any Damage.
Except my main picks in ranked aside from mages are marksmen, Ashe is my third most played champ overall and trist is my second most played in ranked as well.
I am very, very well versed in how marksmen lane, as it is.
Marksmen sit back and poke? When it does anything, Vayne can just back, get a vamp scepter and suddenly she outheals nearly any poke that can actually hit her, even Caitlyn before nerfs in season 7 struggled with Vayne.
A winrate of approximately 48% in the matchup ever since the marksmen update tells most people that Caitlyn lost her ability to bully Vayne after that, only because Cait was overtuned was the not noticed for a long time.
The moment Cait was even just slightly strong she immediately lost her hold on Vayne, only for the entire ardent censer meta to start.
Right after? Vayne has been rising ever since, only stopped for a time due to how strong MF and Ezreal got but with them fading away Vayne is once again rising, this time rapidly.
So Kog can do 4000 dmg per second with his standard build, whats your point? Its still much higher than Vaynes dmg, from much farther away. Vayne never builds Botrk + Rageblade, so 2-2.2 k dps is not an argument, you need to compare to her crit build (This was your selling point from before). Her crit build is maximum 1500 dps. and much lower vs tanks.
What kind of argument is this? I went to prove that their single target is about the same and confirmed that kog's AOE is better when they build for it.
If we compare usual builds i can just note that Vayne can basically 2 shot kog at any stage of the game, and even before this she has always been able to 3 shot him, he might get 1 or 2 autos in before he dies but that's it.
Don't need maximum DPS if you kill anything and everything in a few hits anyway, And Vayne get's to do that while still keeping a vastly superior effectiveness against tanks compared to all other marksmen running the same build.
All the benefits but not the supposed weakness.
Yeah it does, he can proc 6 shots in less than 3 seconds, and if they play properly and with a support like Lulu and Some frontline tanks, you will loose that teamfight unless you have a diver/assassin with insane dmg. Heck he could even proc the 6 shots on minions before attacking you.
Assuming that someone lets him just stand there for 3 seconds without doing anything, his actual attackspeed while moving is much, much lower unless scripting.
And who´d be crazy enough to fight the kog with a stacked guinso? Everyone knows to just wait a second and then go in as you´d do with Kayle.
Again "If", most of the time teams are not grouping and most of the time team dont have frontline, you keep making ideal situations for you arguments, and bad situations for my arguments.
A single person can easily dodge Ashe´s ulti if it's from a decent distance.
And in the scenario you described Vayne´s even more OP, as she 2 shots most squishies who won't have the targeted CC to stop her.
Let me ask you one question then: Before Vayne buffs in 7.19, She was sub 50% winrate and considered non meta in soloq and pro play. What has changed since then? Her Q got 20% more AD and she was allowed to reset on her ulti, but her crit on q was removed. IMO this is very little buff damage-wise. Her winrate went up to around 50% here.
She was sitting at 49,70% or just slightly lower ever since patch 7,13 don't go mixing up facts.
SoloQ and pro play at the time was dominated by ardent censer, and incidentally her winrate rises a little by every patch ardent was nerfed until 7,22 when preseason hit.
Suddenly runes reforged is launched and she is in Top 10.
Theyn they nerf lethality and buff Fleet footwork and she is Top 3.
Then they nerf Ezreal and enchanters she is now Top ADC in 8.1
MF was the main reason Vayne was held back though.....single Q did 60% of Vayne´s health which kept her from ever farming......actually most suffered from that except Ezreal.
Can you see the problem? If i had asked you before 7.19, why she is strong, you could NOT have listed all these Arguments, even though her power was close to what it is now in 8.1. She hasnt changed but meta has changed around her which makes her strong. When meta goes back to echanters and mages she will be weak again. BUT NOW EVEN MORE; BECAUSE THEY NERF HER OVERALL POWER.
I could easily have listed every single thing i have, because i haven't mentioned rune page as a reason for her strength even once, who was doing strawman examples where again?
I only listed the stuff found in her kit, as everyone has equal access to runes.
And a mage+enchanter meta will most likely not happen at the same time again hopefully, nor will a true mage meta ever happen again since Riot hopefully learnt their lesson about the disasters that all their class reworks bought.
So no specific meta's should happen if anything goes well, rather just meta's composed of individual champions.
And in such situations Vayne will always been insanely powerful whenever her direct counters like MF aren't too powerful.
Unless her kit is fundamentally changed, which i think most people do realize and thats why they are complaining about her.
a lot as my go to when Vayne is picked/banned. I've learned how to shut down Vayne as long as my support isn't doing random shit. But the sustain is too much and even as a mastery was too much.
vs ashe just for the tenacity? I can mention several time over the last few season where she needed to be nerfed because her poke and overall damage was too high, compared to what her role was.
who are 100% against everything the balance team worked for. The better choice would be just to say ''hey this is a failure, delete this champ''
an adc isn't supposed to do that
