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I realized what ELO hell is. Why there should be a ZERO Division "UNranked"

Occams Raiser··5 votes·1,534 views

Imagine if the college sports teams had to take everyone that wanted to play. Imagine what sports would look like. Everyone would get a participation trophy and be deserving of at least some playtime. It would look like bronze. BRONZE is basically a catch all of all the worse things about league. I know people talk about chat abuse but I don't give two fucs about anyone's feeling about some mean thing a kid wrote in a line of text. ;) I am talking about game play abuse.

In Bronze we get all the shit but that is merely because unlike the real world there is no drop out at the bottom. Bronze 5 should not be the bottom of ranked. I personally think if you had to qualify into ranked and keep your qualifications, Bronze would look different. I have never been big on participation medals. You shouldn't be bronze just because you play ranked. You should fall out the bottom and be rank restricted from ranked until you win a promo series that puts you back to BRONZE 5. The difference about this unranked division is that it is as big as an entire tier point wise but in negative numbers. You can be -500 unranked. IT doesn't seem like much but it Makes sense to say "there is an unranked division for a reason". It doesn't make a lick of since to say that about bronze cause there always has to be a number 1 when you count, but I am adding the number ZERO, like the Babylonians.

MMR WOULD STOP AT ZERO if you wanted to know. only LP would drop beyond 0. Good news, LP loss\gain is even here!

You want to be a casual ranked player. HAVE I GOT A PLACE FOR YOU!!! You are going to LOOOOOOOOOOVE it!

48 Comments

Trash MammaI3 votes

I would say silver is the "elo hell" everyone talks about. I found bronze to be pretty nice. People in bronze weren't as toxic as they are in silver at least for my experience.

I agree with you tho idgaf what some kid says to me I can just mute and move on. When they get upset you wont argue with them and start running down mid lane feeding on purpose it gets annoying

Occams Raiser1 votes

With bots and boosters in bronze I can't agree with your assessment but I am glad to see that you are on board. we can compromise at low ELO is ELO hell.

DomainSpecific2 votes

Can confirm, Silver is the worst league.

Also, Silver currently holds the highest amount of players. Low Silver should be merged into Bronze, and another league should be created.

Occams Raiser1 votes

This is a new thing I am hearing. But nothing goes between Bronze and Silver medals. I wanted an unranked section so it would expand all the bottom tiers. Then I was told that until S2 that existed but was taken away.

Malix Farwin1 votes

{quoted}

I would say silver is the "elo hell" everyone talks about. I found bronze to be pretty nice. People in bronze weren't as toxic as they are in silver at least for my experience.

I agree with you tho idgaf what some kid says to me I can just mute and move on. When they get upset you wont argue with them and start running down mid lane feeding on purpose it gets annoying

i think i kinda agree with this, when i got pushed back to bronze 3 when the new season started it took me less then a day to go from b3 to b1 series then i got stuck with a lot of silver players.

mirAcIe2 votes

We had that up until the end of season 2. Elo hell beliefs still existed.

Occams Raiser1 votes

That is because there is an elo hell. This is only one part of the problem. Riot is a business. Just cause they got rid of something doesn't mean they were right to. Remember I am approaching it from a player standpoint. They are looking at the money. It makes sense for Riot to leave bad people in the player pool because it makes their numbers high. It does not benefit us. Streamline benefits them not us. Never assume a business has your interests at heart. They don't. even these forums are merely a way to create a space for venting frustration and building a sense of community. This is a a great way to make friends for playing. I have made a few myself.

Elo hell is the deservedly unranked, trolls, and competitive low elo players having to play together. "Crabs in a bucket" is a real phenomenon. Step 1: removed the unskilled, step 2: remove the trolls, step 3: Have fun.

Bet you thought I was going to say "profit".

mirAcIe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G6lruLiB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-05-24T18:15:15.431+0000)

That is because there is an elo hell. This is only one part of the problem. Riot is a business. Just cause they got rid of something doesn't mean they were right to. Remember I am approaching it from a player standpoint. They are looking at the money. It makes sense for Riot to leave bad people in the player pool because it makes their numbers high. It does not benefit us. Streamline benefits them not us. Never assume a business has your interests at heart. They don't. even these forums are merely a way to create a space for venting frustration and building a sense of community. This is a a great way to make friends for playing. I have made a few myself.

Elo hell is the deservedly unranked, trolls, and competitive low elo players having to play together. "Crabs in a bucket" is a real phenomenon. Step 1: removed the unskilled, step 2: remove the trolls, step 3: Have fun.

Bet you thought I was going to say "profit".

I agree that bronze should be something you have to work for, not just a dump for EVERYONE. But I don't think that elo hell beliefs indicate that elo hell exists. It just means that people will always try and shift the blame on others. It's natural, therefore elo hell beliefs are natural. In reality, everyone has their personal "elo hell", it's the MMR range where they actually belong according to their level of skill. Ironically, this is the place they hate the most, because playing ranked becomes stagnant since you can neither climb nor drop significantly.

Occams Raiser1 votes

If you get trolled all three of your first promo games, is it your fault you didn't get promoted? Probability dictates that this happens to some. Out of five games how many times do you think someone a player will get trolled? Do you think that this should be a hurdle in the game? It doesn't exist in real world competitive play. Let me know your answers.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

We had that up until the end of season 2. Elo hell beliefs still existed.

^

Thresh Outta Fux2 votes

Have to agree, the Unranked idea would be nice, and we'd be disarming the toxicity of the word Bronze.

Occams Raiser1 votes

thank you.

insaiyanbacca2 votes

tbh bronze isnt that bad its silver thats full of crap

Prismghost1 votes

Yeah I think it's the around the S4 area, I can get out of S5 but I'm having a little trouble getting out of S4

Dedrius1 votes

I agree that everyone shouldn't be automatically put into bronze no matter how bad you do, but I feel that everyone in unranked would then have the same complaints that people in bronze have.

I was placed in Silver V my first season so I don't really know how bronze is but I am pretty sure its a very similar skill level. Elo hell exists no matter what Elo you are so get used to it :p

Prismghost1 votes

Actually it seems like theirs more skill in bronze than silver

Dedrius1 votes

That is probably true for like bronze 2-1 compared to Silver 5

Prismghost1 votes

And S4, had someone call adc and he didn't get it. Was like okay and fed all game -.- like even if I had trolls before they weren't completely and underly useless.

Dedrius1 votes

Well I still get people like this in high Plat and have gotten it all the way up. You are gonna get assholes on your team every once in a while, not much you can do at the moment to deal with it as bad as it is.

black nigs1 votes

bronze is fun to play in because they are all so shitty lmao

Clown Apocalypse1 votes

Personally I think you should have to start bronze every season. You don't get to go to the playoffs next season just because you won the superbowl do you? Some people play a handful of games on their accounts and keep their precious ranks. People hit 5 of whatever tier they are in be it silver gold plat or whatever, and are able to go on horrific losing streaks and not get demoted provided they win a few here and there. Meanwhile I get promoted and demoted within 10 games sometimes. Make people earn that shit each season. If all these high elo players didn't get to operate in their little bubble every season, maybe the system might actually become fair one day.

Occams Raiser1 votes

It takes too many games I think if everyone started from bronze.

Clown Apocalypse1 votes

yeah but should people be able to perpetually sit at the top of the leaderboards while only playing a handful of games? I think if you are better than 90% of the community and if its supposedly so easy to carry against lesser opponents in spite of bad teammates, they should be forced to do it. I'm bronze, why should I have to play a ridiculous amount of games to get anywhere with people who don't have a clue, but they don't? I just think too many games is a ridiculous argument. Its not gonna stop people who truly belong in bronze from remaining there. Honestly I would like the learning experience of playing against some of these high level people so I can see what weaknesses of mine they exploit, and just general things they did I should probably pick up on. Watching high level games and actually playing against high level people are two different things and don't offer the same thing for some people in terms of how they learn to play the game.

People make 10 alt accounts just because they are scared to take all their losses on one account so they make others and only play that one enough to not decay. I tried to make an alt account and didn't make it past level 15. why should I have to grind all those characters and runes and such again to escape their stupid algorithm that allows me to make a new account and get placed higher in ranking than this account I've had since season 1 and played soooooo many games on?

That's the worst part of it all. A new account gets more love when the season starts than an old one. Every game I ever lost is still being held against me pretty much, not so for a new account. If everyone had to start over that would be more in line with what "seasons" mean in sports. Where last season isn't held against me and I have a fresh start and chance at rising to the top just like everyone else.

Occams Raiser1 votes

IT is bullshit that all your games are put into the equation.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

but then you have for the first month or so everyone from diamond/plat/challenger just wrecking everyone

Clown Apocalypse1 votes

Not like they don't make smurf accounts and rek everyone anyways. Hell I see people in bronze get absolutely destroyed by other bronze people who aren't even smurfing. I would rather see them rise to the top because they rekt everyone legitimately. Plus they always make it sound like its so easy to carry a shit team, I'd like to see them do it.

I don't think they should be able to sit in this little bubble year after year where they never have to play with the people that absolutely suck but everyone else does. Instead they tell us all about the pains of being platinum and how it never gets any better and how plat 5 is the real elo hell. No the real elo hell is in bronze with the people who have shit computers, shit internet, and not shit to lose. At least people in platinum don't wanna fall out of platinum. People in bronze give no fux.

Why should someone be able to play 20-30 games with awesome teammates and be platinum when I cant even get to silver in that many games, awesome teammates or not? The shits not fair and it turns higher ranked players into these smug s.o.b.s who come on forums and tell the 75% of us who are gold and under that the shit teammates they never have to play with are all our imagination. So they should have to endure what the rest of us endure. You wanna be platinum every season....earn it every season. Otherwise wtf is the point of a season?

Occams Raiser1 votes

The problem is they can carry shit teams. The difference in the game between normal and awesome isn't like it is i a fighting game. Here, teams lose because they are in solo queue with shot caller. If you have a guy fed before 10 minutes and everything he does is golden. The only thing you have to do is listen to him and let him feed you some kills.

COWmanLord1 votes

I think a good place to add a new division would be in between bronze and silver. Part of the reason people hate it in those areas so much is because they make up I believe around 70% of all players, so the skill range is incredibly broad there. If You take the top part of bronze and the bottom part of silver you would probably help balance that area out a bit more. Although a division below bronze is probably also a good idea. There is bronze then there is total-facepalm-what-is-this-guy-thinking bronze. Only problem I could see is what do you name those sections.

Angry Monster1 votes

Riot got rid of the number system but we should just go back to it. Does it really matter if your bronze or silver if your bottom 40%? Not really your still bottom 40%.

http://www.lolsummoners.com/stats

Bronze is currently the bottom 20% of the ladder in ranked in NA. We should just put on people stat pages what percentile they are. Top 40% to 35% get end season rewards. Special color banners for top 10%, 5% 1% and top 100 accordingly.

Occams Raiser1 votes

It matters. But you have a good idea about rewards.

Angry Monster1 votes

Therotically its close to what we do. Gold is ~ top 40%.

Why does what metal matter If % you are so low in the standings. If your goal is just be realtivelt better then you should be happy with riots current system. CONGRATS YOU HIT s5 you are better than B. IF sliver 3 your > S4 and below... If you want pure numbers you should not care about metal standing. You should only care that you are < X.

You get to caught up in this. I know my real worth, but do you know yours?

Occams Raiser1 votes

Because this is an environment that that looks down on people. It isn't really right so I ignore it. If I want to take pride in my accomplishment of what ever div I make it to based on my level of dedication, I should be able to do so. If I have pride in it I want others that share my rank to take pride in it to. If you had to test in and could fall out, the measure would be what rank you are But since everyone is SOME rank just for playing, people bag on bronze cause it is base level. Gold bags on Silver and Bronze. The top 12% don't even waste time with the mucky muck to even bother bagging on them. For every gold 3 shitting on the head of a silver 1 there is a PLAT 1 pissing in the Gold's mouth as he laughs.

Bronze players should be considered better than everyone who is too timid to consistently play ranked. I don't know about those who are sick of trolls so they quit. That is another story.

Take pride in your accomplishments what ever they may be. However if your accomplishments are merely shitting on others, kill yourself.

The YOU is always meant in general terms.

Angry Monster2 votes

Because this is an environment that that looks down on people.

human nature. We always want show our accomplishments, and the only real way is by having something to compare below us. it is even your goal to be able to look down on someone else. Right now you think you are better than others that refuse to play ranked or b5 players.

If I want to take pride in my accomplishment of what ever div I make it to based on my level of dedication

when your below average their is no pride to be found. Maybe in a particular game their can be, but when below 50 percentile pride in being mediocre is not a good thing. The only thing people should be saying is I want to get better.(completely opinion based).

the measure would be what rank you are But since everyone is SOME rank just for playing, people bag on bronze cause it is base level.

What happens when/if you(personally) fall to that point? Are you going to start another this is not fair campaign? Someone is always going to be hurt when the system does not recognize them. The answer is to be strive to get better or to quite the system. Changing the system does not fix the overall problem since someone has to be at the bottom.

For every gold 3 shitting on the head of a silver 1 there is a PLAT 1 pissing in the Gold's mouth as he laughs.

Not really and there is your bias again. Actually the rest of what you write is their toxic (talking about how people should die) or your opinions that can not be reasoned with. Most of what you say is your feelings and its stupid to try to fix someones feelings.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Right now you think you are better than others that refuse to play ranked or b5 players.

Not B5s. There is a difference in competing and not competing. It is the difference between those willing to jump in the ring and those that are not. If you are in the ring you are a competitor out side you are a spectator. I don't look down on spectators but they understand whey the don't jump in the ring.

Thinking that you are below average in game and finding sadness would be on you. I like the game and I know that everything is relative.

Are you going to start another this is not fair campaign?

What was the first one?

Not really and there is your bias again.

I see some contradictions in you analysis. Why don't you see them. Think bout the link between (looking down on people: Your thoughts on human nature: Your cynicism : One rank looking down on another: Special pleading: Me being wrong about others looking down on lowers.)

Angry Monster1 votes

Are you going to start another this is not fair campaign?

you take the comment out of context. I meant if you fell below the threshold to be bronze if their was a rank 0 (not shown)

I see some contradictions in you analysis. Why don't you see them. Think bout the link between (looking down on people: Your thoughts on human nature: Your cynicism : One rank looking down on another: Special pleading: Me being wrong about others looking down on lowers.)

I think you see what you want to see. I think you also look for a deeper meaning when what was said is all their is.

Not B5s.

Who do you think that is going to fill the playing ranked but not having a metal position? Your whole idea is that the worse of the worse do not get metals. In order to say that you have to think you deserve but they do not. You look down on b5.

Occams Raiser1 votes

In order to say that you have to think you deserve but they do not. You look down on b5.

No it doesn't. When creating a fair system one has to accept any of the possible positions. I would create a system where there are things to aspire to and there are tools to get you to what you want. But nothing worth anything is given for free. Love I suppose someone would say but you can't sell that wither.

Angry Monster1 votes

So you like the current system then. You have the tools and all you have to do is spend the time and effort to get better.

Occams Raiser1 votes

The current system doesn't have all the tools. It does not have a tribunal or an early "no contest" rule for early afk or dc from start. You and Riot may say a system might be abused but that just means you might need a different system instead but something is needed. I find 30% of my time is wasted. Imagine if 30% of your real world training was wasted. 1 out of every 3 hours of training was shooting the shit. A coach would leave you cause he would think you aren't serious or you would quit the gym or dojo for wasting so much of your time. Good thing this game is free.

Angry Monster1 votes

but that just means you might need a different system instead but something is needed.

Not a fact just an opinion. Those that consistently afk fall lower in the rankings and eventually get banned. I really doubt that 30% of your games had an AFK in them for the first 5 minutes. After 5 minutes it is people giving up or tech issues (which is impossible for riot to detect).

IF you think all the tools are easy to make, then list something that is not abuse-able that riot can implement.
-you can not have person never connected- person could dodge cause they do not like the comp and get out free. -cant have loss forgiven then people can try and BM a player into rage quitting. -pregame reports would be nice but people that troll are not afraid of the report system anyways. -pregame reset votes for trolls do not work cause either its set for simple majority and it is to easy to break a game up for comp issues or you set to 4/5 and then everyone has to agree its trolling not a non meta issue.

So go ahead find a toll that can not be broken. I listed best case her without mentioning boosters which will look for any little thing to break a system.

Occams Raiser1 votes

First the trolling problem. We don't agree on the severity of the punishment for trolling. I know from previous discussions. I would go in 5 game increments. Suspensions to follow: 1 day, 1 week, 30 days, Permaban. That makes for 20 games getting your account deleted with four chances. As it stands now the automated system does nothing. I have seen 30 games in a row with nothing happening to the account cause it is still open.

IF you think all the tools are easy to make, then list something that is not abuse-able that riot can implement.

My idea for NC\DC http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/JhflUtjz-ok-then-what-about-a-no-contest-rule-for-dcs?comment=0003

-you can not have person never connected- person could dodge cause they do not like the comp and get out free.

This reason doesn't concern me. It shows that they want out so bad they are willing to take a loss and punishment to get out. That is what the punishment could be.

pregame reset votes for trolls do not work cause either its set for simple majority and it is to easy to break a game up for comp issues or you set to 4/5 and then everyone has to agree its trolling not a non meta issue.

This and other Ideas should not be dimissed out of hand because they are believed not to be viable. They nerf buff everything else that doesn't come out right from the start, why not this?

-pregame reports would be nice but people that troll are not afraid of the report system anyways.

What did your parents do when you outgrew spankings?

Angry Monster1 votes

I have seen 30 games in a row with nothing happening to the account cause it is still open.

First of riot does not like peramabans anymore and expecting them to remove an account except for the very worse offenders is unrealistic. They are more likely to rank restrict than anything.

The fact your are tracking people to see if they are still playing is creeping. Though the fact of the matter they may of trolled you does not mean they troll all the time. What is a troll? Is twitch jungle a troll(off meta)? or is it just someone going double into a single lane? It really is amazing what is consider a troll until it wins you a game, then its brilliant game play.

Occams Raiser1 votes

First of riot does not like peramabans anymore and expecting them to remove an account except for the very worse offenders is unrealistic. They are more likely to rank restrict than anything.

This I know, and with any arms race the SIDE that says they aren't willing to take it to the next step loses. We have a winner and it is..... TROLLS WIN!

Some people are trolls some are booster. If you think recording data is creepy, than ok. You looked at my match history.

Oh you peaked my curiosity. I would like your analysis of what I am doing wrong.

What is a troll? Is twitch jungle a troll(off meta)?

Does he have the tools to sustain and duel in the jungle while pulling off successful ganks despite the fact he has no lockdown. I don't know is that troll?

Angry Monster1 votes

Some people are trolls some are booster. If you think recording data is creepy, than ok. You looked at my match history.

Looking 1 time is not creepy. I have been talking in your threads for over 2 weeks. I wanted to see what you were doing and since i think you have a werid POV. I offered to help since i see major flaws. You are tracking for sadistic glee.

Creepy is seeing if X person is playing after you report them. Trying to figure out if they were punished or not.

You side step the question what is troll to you. I choose a off meta as an example. You seem to think that the game is flooded with trolls, i wanted to see what exactly a troll is.

Angry Monster1 votes

I just looked at your match history. Would you like a in game review done of what you are doing wrong with builds (items, runes, and materies)?

Their is no PM system so i have do it through a thread. Add me if you want to talk about your setups.

Occams Raiser1 votes

If I could get you to do anything it would be for you to stop thinking this is about me. I read so many post about people that think like I do. Some of them are gold and Plat. Why do you think all my ideas are complaints? Why can I not look at a system and see opportunities for improvement. Are you trolling me? Please release me if you are. You win danm it!

Angry Monster1 votes

no one plat runs tank naut with out cinder hulk first. No one runes the runes you do. Trust me no one is doing what you do.

I looked cause you seem to think everyone else is wrong when it comes to the game and i wanted to see your setup. You are doing enough wrong in game that you should never worry about others again.

Colgate Gator1 votes

They have a place, it's called Bronze.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Are you just being snide or did you really miss it all?

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