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What the Actual Hell, Meddler?

The Yetii Rider··9 votes·3,056 views
League of Legends Match History

Meddler. Andrei. Can I call you Andrei? Probably not.

Andrei, we need to have a talk. Man to experienced professional game designer who never responds to any of my threads. I'm not sure how to link my user profile that is featured in-client, but as of writing this thread I have 532,493 Mastery Points on Nunu. And when I saw the update on the PBE I got excited, I admit. Was this the break I was waiting for? Would I finally get to enjoy some return of power after the horrible nerfs to counterjungling that have perpetuated since November 11, 2015?

But then I see this. This little addition to the patch notes: NEW- FEED THE YETI Every large monster consumed feeds Willump, granting him a stack of Well Fed. Each stack of Well Fed grants Nunu 10 movement speed out of combat, 3% maximum health and size (stacking 5 times). Stacks refresh on each cast of Consume, falling off every 50/55/60/65/70 seconds.

So, obviously I have some mixed feelings about this addition, Andrei. Mixed feelings strong enough to create a large gameplay discussion thread with a clickbait title and the use of your real name very inappropriately to make a point about how serious I am.

You see, in the same patch notes, Scarizard admits that Nunu is "a supportive counter-jungler". Ignoring, for a moment, that he doesn't explain what counter-jungling is despite Riot not discussing it in any public form since November 11, 2015, I just find myself trying to wrap my head around the decision here.

You see, here's my problem Andrei. My problem is, this new change doesn't properly incentivize Nunu to counterjungle. And the reason for that, is of course...He can reach the stack cap inside his own jungle!

This boggles my mind. Nunu is not supposed to be a farming jungler and yet I have had to play him that way against pretty much every meta champion since November 11, 2015, and now that you finally address "Oh yeah, we fucked up counter-jungling pretty badly, didn't we?" you give him a buff that just rewards him for farming his own jungle?

Andrei. Why? Why would you do something like this?

Alright, let's grind this out. For anyone who isn't Andrei Meddler van Roon, there's a huge wall of text incoming. If you stopped caring three lines ago then kindly leave the thread. But for you, Andrei, I am absolutely, one hundred percent committed to you reading this. You probably won't reply, but it's important that I say everything that is wrong right here in one thread so you can understand exactly why I am so frustrated.

Number One: Poacher's Knife was Removed I keep alluding to November 11, 2015, which is the date that Patch 5.22 hit the servers. This patch is where Nunu's core item, Poacher's Knife, was removed from the game. I absolutely depended on this item to counterjungle effectively. The extra gold may have been the reason for the item's removal, but the reason I built the item was the speed boost and the reduced CD on Smite. And that was fair. It was fair because everyone else in the game had either an extra combat Summoner with Chilling Smite or Challenging Smite, or...well okay Ranger's Trailblazer was a problem, I'll admit that.

When this happened I was furious. Without the reduced CD on Smite, my clear times in the enemy jungle were significantly extended. And without the speed boost I couldn't even quickly move from camp to camp and get out by the time the revealing jungler's gank was over.

That brings me to my second point.

Number Two: Tracker's Knife is not Helpful

Okay, maybe up in Diamond and Challenger where everyone plays as perfectly as they can, vision in the enemy jungle is worth something. But the overwhelming population of the League community is not professional, and they don't look at the map. I don't have time to ping when I see the enemy jungler with my wards while I am attempting to counterjungle, set up vision around dragon, watch every lane, keep an eye on my gold, and pay attention to buff timers. And my teammates don't watch the map because they actually have to focus in order to CS. More power to them.

Andrei I don't buy Tracker's Knife. I've tried it. I thought it was going to be the most busted item ever when it was announced, and for pro players it really is. But vision around the map in the laning phase doesn't matter when no one watches the map. It's sad, but it's true. And more importantly, it doesn't help Nunu's primary goal. Nunu's primary goal is to make the enemy jungler as useless as he is, as the saying goes. I know it's more complex than that because I do it on a regular basis, but when you removed Poacher's Knife you significantly. Significantly. Significantly nerfed Nunu's ability to do his own job. The point of counterjungling is not to set up vision, to warn my laners about potential ganks, or anything like that. It's to deny gold and experience so that when the enemy does gank, I can punish them for it. And you made it twice as hard.

Number Three: Kindred Fucked Everything Up Kindred was released on October 14, 2015. They are nearly a year old now. And with their introduction came the bane of my existence. The Patience system. In theory, it's a cute idea. Monsters can move farther out of their camps without recovering health or going back, and it's up to a marksman jungle to kite around their movement and avoid damage.

In practice, what it does is it makes counter-jungling hell. I've made several threads about this already, but I'll never stop saying it. When I am attempting to deny experience to an enemy jungler, and I leave a single raptor in the Razorbeak camp, that single raptor will follow me all the way past red buff, nearly to Krugs, before retreating despite me never damaging it. This has the potential to give so much information to the enemy jungler, and that is information I can no longer play around because I don't have a 15% speed boost for killing jungle monsters anymore. The easiest solution to preventing this stupid system from screwing me up is to make it so that jungle patience only applies to the large monsters. I don't need puppies and birds following me all over the map when I'm just trying to do my job.

Number Four: Pink Wards and the Dynamic Queue System

I've basically stopped playing ranked at this point, but it seems like Dynamic Queue has even increased the number of people playing together in normals, or maybe just increased their coordination. I will admit that the addition of club tags might have just improved my visibility of the number of people playing together in normals, but you have the data, Andrei, so if you know for a fact that people are playing together more in normals and in ranked (which they should, that was the point of the Dynamic Queue system) you know that counter-jungling now has an extra disadvantage to it.

I get it. My strategy's weakness is coordination and people responding, and friends on voice comms are going to react much faster and much more often than people who are in solo queue. But if you're making counter-jungling more dangerous with systematic changes, why are you not offering more rewards for it? Andrei, please. If I have to stick my neck into the enemy jungle when they have bot and top in queue with a jungle, I already have a disadvantage of his ganks being more effective than mine. Why should I have to suffer my strategy being less effective and his strategy being more effective without some sort of compensation?

The other thing is that pink wards are permanent, and because they're permanent people are buying them more often and buying them earlier. That, combined with the increased coordination, is making simply crossing the river riskier and riskier, but the rewards stay the same.

And now we reach the end of this rant. Andrei, I love Nunu. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/JfRvtUo9-5-reasons-why-nunu-is-awesome

I just do. And I understand that he has some game health issues. I am in favor of changing Consume to deal true damage scaling on character level instead of rank so that he doesn't just flatly deny contesting objectives all the time. I mean, past level 7 most junglers won't even bother coming to dragon unless they have their entire five man team ready, because they know they don't even have a snowball's chance to steal. And I understand how frustrating that can be.

But that doesn't mean you should offer me this bit of small assistance. I'm not an idiot, Andrei, I remember Patch 5.8 on April 28, 2015. At that point, Nunu's base health per level was reduced because "For a champion that has two separate avenues of multiplying his health (thanks to Consume and Cinderhulk), it didn't make as much sense for Nunu to have one of the higher health pools in the game without items, so we're toning it down to make up for his gains later."

So "bugfixing" Nunu to allow his Consume bonus health to be increased by Cinderhulk (when Cinderhulk's bonus health multiplier has been lowered to 15% from 25% in Patch 5.16 on August 20, 2015, so Nunu had to suffer with poorer bases and no compensation for over a year) isn't a buff. It's a decision made on your part to try and patch up some of the damage you did to his durability by nerfing him due to an item interaction and then nerfing the item interaction.

There's not going to be a TL:DR here, because I genuinely believe you will read the whole thing, Andrei. I don't know this for a fact but based on your interaction on the boards, based on some of the changes you've made, I believe you care a great deal about your players, and about the Boards community. But I don't play Nunu to try and get a lot of health, or to try and control dragons, or to try and move quickly across the map so I can gank a lane.

I play Nunu because I want to prevent my opponent from getting ahead. Because after the introduction of Chilling Smite, ganks became much more lethal and early junglers more devastating. And I wanted a way to punish this. But time and time again, you make counter-jungling more difficult. More frustrating. More inefficient. And it's gotten to the point where I don't even want to play ranked anymore when Nunu was the champion who got me to gold in the first place. I had over 250 ranked wins on Nunu in Season 5, and that's only wins. I only had about a 55% win rate on him, so I probably played close to 500 ranked games total, and that's not counting the hundreds of normals I've played with him before and since.

If you want me to enjoy playing Nunu more, I think you'll find the solution is not to gives me a bit of extra stats for farming my own jungle.

I can't offer you any more advice than what I have on how to fix this problem, Andrei. It's complicated, it's deep, and it seems like it continuously gets worse as you try and address other issues in the jungle. But I don't need to offer you any direct solutions because finding the solution is your job, and communicating my dissatisfaction is mine.

I'm disappointed, Andrei.

Alec

22 Comments

TyrekGoldenspear8 votes

So...

You don't want to give him any solutions and are basically telling him to fix your problems?

I get where you are coming from, I read the whole thing. But if you would make some suggestions there would be room for an actual conversation. You and Meddler can bounce ideas off each other.

But what can he honestly say in reply that's in anyway productive of you have given him nothing but complaints to reply too?

Also using his name inappropriately doesn't make you sound serious. Just way too familiar and immature in a sense.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

I offered a few solutions. I said to nerf Consume so that it scales on character level so that Nunu's kit can be made healthier and he doesn't have to stay as bad power wise. I said to change the Patience system to only apply to large monsters so small monsters don't follow you across the entire enemy jungle.

But the solution is not to bring Poacher's Knife back, it was unhealthy for a reason and its removal was important for balancing the jungle. And obviously systematic changes like pink wards and Dynamic Queue aren't going to be changed by this, but no one can deny they negatively impact the strategy.

Like I said, the problem is complex and it's rooted in many different problems with the jungle that they have tried to be addressed. Nunu is probably the only champion in the game who is supposed to counter-jungle as his primary role, so I understand that all of these changes to how the jungle works, while they negatively impact him, are better overall for the design of the game.

I can't think of how to make counter-jungling more rewarding for Nunu specifically without reducing some of his power or the like. But I do know that this small change isn't going to make counter-jungling better. You don't get rewarded for eating enemy monsters, but you lose the 15% bonus MS so it's actually harder for you to get out of the jungle without getting punished because the MS buff you do get won't turn off until 5 seconds after you kill the last monster.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

True, but remember they are overhauling the jungle in S7, so I would wait till after to look at changing Nunu too much.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

I hope he does! I hope there are some changes to the jungle that address some of these issues, but bringing up the Patience system in particular beforehand is important so that it's in the back of his mind when he looks at what he can do for the junglers out there.

Rivuo2 votes

Why dont you stop getting mad at him for trying to FIX the champion who is considered a troll pick

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Why dont you stop getting mad at him for trying to FIX the champion who is considered a troll pick

Because I know he can try harder. This isn't a fix. This is a change. And it's not addressing the real problem, which is that counter-jungling has been made worse continuously with multiple nerfs. Giving Nunu more stats if he farms isn't solving any of the increased risk or decreased reward for counter-jungling.

Nik Nikerson1 votes

I would guess they don't want counter-jungling to be too strong because it makes for a rather unhealthy game experience if it is. Jungle is the only position that you can actively steal the enemy's farm, thus denying them resources. No where else in the game does that occur, and for a good reason. A certain amount of resource denial is okay, but if it's too good, one person sits around not really playing the game, while the other steam-rolls them. It's frustrating, and leaves a really bad taste in your mouth when it happens to you. Why would they want to encourage more of that sort of non-interactive, frustration inducing game-play?

The Yetii Rider2 votes

They admitted he's a counter-jungler. That is Nunu's role in the League. You can't not encourage it when he has an ability that only works on minions and monsters. Can he duel? No, he's only got two abilities pre-6 against champs. Can he gank? Sure, but he has no mobility and mana problems early. Can he power farm? Certainly, if your team can hold off without ganks, and even then he won't end up as a carry like Master Yi or Shyvana.

He's a counter-jungler. Buffing him isn't going to fix him unless you address the reason he's weak in the first place.

Nik Nikerson1 votes

I think of it like land destruction in Magic: The Gathering. They still make land destruction cards, but they are much weaker than they used to be because resource denial doesn't make for fun games. It's there, and it's doable, but they won't let it be too good. If you're going to commit to counter-jungling, and trying to shut a player off from resources, you're probably going to have to accept risk doing it, otherwise it's just going to be oppressive. You may have to just accept that it's not the optimal strategy all the time. It may suck for Nunu players, but the viability of one champion isn't worth the overall health of the game.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

That's not comparable. Riot has said that the intent is for counter-jungling to be an answer to ganking. They give ganking champions plenty of additional resources to make their lives easier, including extra mobility on jungle-specific champions (Khazix Elise Ivern RekSai ), their own combat summoner (item 3706 ), the most gold efficient AD item in the game (item 1400 ) and the early game clear is based off Life Steal, rewarding armor penetration/AD reds which help you gank.

For counter-jungling, we had Poacher's Knife. That was taken away. Riot gave pink wards infinite life, which makes defending your jungle easier. They gave players incentive to play together which makes counter-jungling riskier.

This is supposed to be a balanced, rock-paper-scissors trinity of ganking-counterjungling-farming, but ganking routinely gets the long end of the stick.

And that's fine, but if you don't make counter-jungling at least a little bit easier or more beneficial, ganking is just going to rule the entire game because there's no way to punish it except "gank harder".

Jungle Lux God2 votes

Tracker's Knife is a perfectly good item for Nunu, and is definitely a good replacement for Poacher's Knife, even if you aren't a diamond/challenger player.

Poacher's Knife had a problem where it telegraphed your intent to counterjungle. You cannot play against competent opponents, telegraph your strategy, and expect to win without being significantly better than them. It just so happened that Nunu was the only champion capable of using Poacher's Knife, and from my experience playing Nunu it still wasn't as good as the other jungle items. In particular, I remember him being able to instantly clear raptors with Blasting Smite-Consume on the big raptor followed up by one or two auto attacks on the small raptors, and that will get you out faster than any Poacher's Knife shenanigans will give you.

Tracker's Knife is significantly better than Poacher's Knife for counterjungling because it helps you counterjungle without telegraphing your intent. You ward the enemy's jungle, and if you see them you take the rest of their jungle. Is their jungler at raptors? Take their gromp. Is their jungler at wolves? Steal their krugs. Take everything they leave up when you see them not around it, and you cannot mess up your counterjungling.

You mentioned the patience system. I think the patience system is much more beneficial to jungling as a whole than adding an inconvenience to counterjungling, but there is a way to work around it. As you take the camp, move out of range such that the patience meter starts decreasing. If you do it right, the camp should reset just as you finish taking the monsters you want out of it, and you can leave without revealing yourself to the enemy jungler.

Changing consume to scale with level instead of rank would actually be a ridiculous buff. Few champions can actually compete with a consume-smite combo, and making Nunu not have to level up his Q for a quality combo or for his clears lets him do a lot more around the map. In Stonewall008's recent video on why Ivern's release was good, he said that it was really good for a support jungler to not need a specific level order to help out his team because it lets the jungler adapt to the game, and this change does the same thing for Nunu. Since Nunu already relies on Q for most of his clearing and his Q scales with level, he can max his other two abilities first to have a significantly greater impact around the map. Max W first for the largest map movement (which gives him an easier time getting to opposing camps and an easier time escaping when he's done) or you can max E first for greater map presence (which helps when he has to duel the enemy jungler or if he needs to gank for whatever reason). This might even break Nunu because he's not balanced around maxing W or E first.

Finally, Cinderhulk changes. Cinderhulk's change to 15% bonus health from 25% bonus health was a buff to just about every tank jungle because it was paired with a base health buff, and every tank jungler cared more about getting 100 extra health to cover their bad early game over getting 100-200 less health in their amazing late game, and even worked in Nunu's favor because the extra 100 extra base health that Cinderhulk gave scaled with the %health that consume gave while the 10% health he lost did not.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Finally, Cinderhulk changes. Cinderhulk's change to 15% bonus health from 25% bonus health was a buff to just about every tank jungle because it was paired with a base health buff, and every tank jungler cared more about getting 100 extra health to cover their bad early game over getting 100-200 less health in their amazing late game, and even worked in Nunu's favor because the extra 100 extra base health that Cinderhulk gave scaled with the %health that consume gave while the 10% health he lost did not.

Perhaps, but now that Cinderhulk has had its price increased you rarely see tank junglers anymore.

And the 10% health he lost scaled with his other items? 100 extra health scaling with Consume gives you 10 more health. He gets 40 health from Cinderhulk instead of 30. And in exchange he lost 10% bonus health from all of his items. Like...the math you're offering here doesn't add up.

Poacher's Knife telegraphing counterjungling didn't matter. Picking Nunu does the same thing.

Blasting Smite on Raptor will give you one camp quickly. Having your next Smite come up twice as fast would get you the whole red side much faster.

I don't need to ward the enemy jungle as Nunu. I can walk up to them and take their camps when they're right there. It doesn't make a difference to me. I'm super tanky even early and they have no items. Later in the game, they're more focused on grouping than farming.

No, changing Consume to scale with rank would not be a ridiculous buff. You could try and max something different but you would quickly find the 70 health returned very lacking, particularly for sneaking dragons or taking one after your team has lost a fight.

Remember, Nunu is losing his % Max health damage on autos, Ice Ball and Absolute Zero, so he's going to need to spend even more time tanking dragon now. No way you could do that on your own early without maxing your heal.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

Nunu doesn't lose anything for 10% bonus health from all his items when he's already getting around 2000 bonus health. Nunu's already one of the tankiest champions in the entire game, and losing 200 bonus health from Cinderhulk doesn't change that in any meaningful way.

Poacher's Knife was good on Nunu only because Nunu already telegraphed that he was counterjungling. It was garbage on every other champion, and it's not worth keeping an item in the game for one champion, especially for as big of a noob trap as it was on every other champion.

Blasting smite could help you clear one camp quickly, and if that's all you need then you can hop right back out. If you want more then you can clear the second camp sightly slower, but because you cleared the first camp so quickly you keep around the same clear speed. Halving the cooldown to 30 seconds also isn't enough time to actually get smite up for a second camp, and Blasting Smite's extra clear speed helps so much more than getting 20 extra gold and extra movement speed while also offering extra waveclear later on in the game while Poacher's Knife offers nothing of relevance.

If you don't need to ward the enemy jungle as Nunu then you are doing something wrong. Nunu is fundamentally a control jungler that specializes with counterjungling, and the benefit of having extra ward coverage on the map in general is too strong for a control jungler not to have. It also doesn't matter that you are super tanky, they have 3 pvp abilities while you only have 2 on top of them already outdamaging you in a 1v1, and their laners can react to your counterjungling faster than your laners can, which means that it's still super risky for you to go for a steal when the enemy jungler is right there. Warding the enemy jungle gives you more opportunities to counterjungle safely and to go for steals more often and has tons of utility in the late game if you have basic map awareness, while Poacher's Knife does the same thing without the late-game utility.

Changing Nunu's consume to scale with level allows him to scale his other abilities so that you won't lose those fights. Why worry about taking a dragon after losing a fight when you can work on maxing W/E first and have extra power that helps you win the teamfight? And having only the 70 healing doesn't matter during your clears when you already build full tank and can normally stay at high health without relying on potions. Yeah, you won't be able to solo dragon now, but maybe you can solo the enemy jungler or gank the lanes instead of doing a cheesy strat that can get you killed if it fails.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

If I'm not warding the enemy jungle I'm doing something wrong: A) we have wolf smite for that. B) In the mid game yellow trinket does that fine. I said it doesn't help in the laning phase.

Maxing W/E doesnt help you team fight because you aren't team fighting before level 9 as a jungler. You might gank, certainly, but getting a stronger ice ball early doesn't compare at all to Elise, Lee Sin, Shaco, Rek'Sai, Gragas, any of those champs who have gap closers. If I wanted to gank I wouldn't play Nunu.

Even if the warding helps you avoid dying when you counterjungle, that just helps you avoid being punished for the strategy. It doesn't make the strategy better. It isn't helping you get ahead in gold or XP, it isn't helping you deny camps respawing or clearing faster or moving out sooner. Chilling Smite doesn't help you survive if you screw up a gank, it helps you succeed in getting kills when you do gank.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

We both understand math, and your calculations would be right if Cinderhulk's % health was calculated with total health. However, Cinderhulk calculates bonus health. You get 4000 total HP, and around 2000 of that is bonus HP. Cinderhulk gives % bonus health. Therefore, getting 15% bonus health instead of 25% bonus health loses you 200 bonus health, which is nothing in the late game.

From my experience, the Red trinkets are too good not to get as a control jungler, and you won't always have the opportunity to smite the enemy wolf camp. It's more reliable to use Tracker's Knife and the red trinket for your vision control rather than just relying on your yellow trinket because you have so much more vision control.

Obviously if you wanted to gank you wouldn't play Nunu, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't gank at all. If you see the enemy top laner overextended and at low health while you are top side, you are going to gank that lane regardless of what jungler you are playing. Alternatively, you might find some champions that you can't counterjungle or find players that are smart enough that you get killed every time you enter their jungle, and you need to find some other way to win as a result, and changing consume damage to scale with level changes that dramatically. Even if you aren't fighting before level 9, you are certainly going to fight before level 13, and at level 13 you would have both your W and your E maxed while also not having to do anything with your Q. The entire premise of a consume change that makes it scale with level instead of rank is that your Q becomes a powerful one-point wonder rather than a must-max, and as a result your other two abilities become much more powerful as a result.

You literally don't need help getting ahead in gold or experience if you are counterjungling. You already are getting an experience and gold advantage just by counterjungling because you are getting gold and experience that the enemy jungler isn't getting. As a result, you just need to not get punished for the strategy in order to come up with a gold/experience advantage, and wards help out with that.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

You point about experience would be correct if there wasn't a debuff in place. You get 10% lower experience for slaying a monster that is a lower level than you, per level lower, up to 50%. This was implemented directly to punish champions who stay in the jungle too long, like counterjunglers.

Being able to max both W and E first wouldn't give you nearly as much power as not having a 1000 true damage to monsters at level 9 would take away.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

The point about experience still applies if regardless of whether or not there's a debuff in place. If you get 3 camps with a 10% reduction, it's still more than taking 1 camp for the full experience. I also thought that you only got bonuses for killing a camp at a higher level than you rather than getting reductions for killing a lower-level camp.

Having a 1k damage nuke to monsters at level 9 only helps Nunu with securing monsters, while having W/E maxed helps contest and take those objectives. A 600 damage nuke with a maxed W/E is significantly better than only having a 1k damage nuke since you are going to secure the monster anyways.

Rock MD1 votes

I named my Aerodactyl Andrei.

Ruin Lance1 votes

number two: wards are not helpful(?)

just because you are in low elo doesn't mean that tracker's knife sucks. "people don't look at the map anyway" isn't a valid argument.

also you offered no solution to fix nunu throughout this entire thing so this entire thread is pretty pointless. i'm pretty sure most people who have looked into it and aren't idiots have figured out nunu's problems, the obstacle is FIXING those problems with a SOLUTION which you have not provided.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

I'm just a player. I don't know what the solution is. The obvious solution is to increase XP on jungle monsters so that junglers value their own camps more (making it better to steal) but that has the impact of increasing the power of farming junglers which isn't good.

If you increase XP solely for monsters in the enemy jungle people would just swap jungles from the start no matter what their strategy is.

There needs to be a reward. But every reward I can think of has issues with it. Meddler knows more about the system and has a team of game designers to bounce ideas off of. I trust him to come up with a decision.

And yes, warding the enemy jungle when no one but you is watching it is not as helpful as a targeted MS steal true damage nuke.

Meep Man1 votes

I think it would be better if it was like this:

Health Gained Per Stack: 3% -> 1.6/1.7/1.8/1.9/2% Max Stacks: 5 -> 10 OutofCom MS Per Stack: 10 -> 6

This way, Nunu is encouraged to counter jungle and is rewarded for doing so. However, in practice, I do find myself counter jungling as Nunu more as I feel the pressure of the stacks timer waying down on me after I gank and I have already cleared my side of the jungle.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Okay, here's a suggestion for how to fix this: Make the new Feed the Yeti ability cap at 10 stacks instead of 5, but have him unable to get them from his side of the map. If he consumes every monster that is not in his own jungle (including Baron, dragon, and both scuttles) he gets 30% max health and size and 100 OOC MS.

There. Great incentive to counter-jungle, reward for applying constant map pressure.

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