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So lemme get this straight

chipndip1·Dec 2, 2016·2 votes·471 views

Tanks: You're primarily a defensive class, but we got different items for those of you that want to put some damage out in fights.

Jugs: Your items are a natural mix of defenses and damage already.

Mages: You guys are primarily squishy damage dealers, but if you need to survive, here are some options that give you some damage and some survivability.

Marksmen: Squishy damage dealers again, but on the ad side. If you REALLY need defense, it's not like you got nothing.

Assassins: We made a rework that specifically gives you guys . You know, an assassin-centric defensive item...for defense...even though you're squishy damage dealers.

Supports: You want to do anything except defend and hit your shield button for 40 minutes? BETTER SAVE UP AMIRIGHTORWHATGUYSHAHAHIGHFIVESALLAROUNDDRINKSONME!!!

Edit:

{quoted}

I think most people are missing the point of this thread.

OP wants support itemization that isn't build normal AP items to be more offensive and have support items that encourage offensive playstyles. Almost all of the support items are completely defensive and the ones that are offensive are pretty bad now.

For one I would like some more options but Riot is going to screw them up and end up being abused by mid laners.

It would be nice to have more universal usage in items like Dota 2 has. Force staff, eul's scepter of divinity, blink dagger, solar crest, drum of endurance, and glimmer cape.

Like I don't understand how only one person responding gets it...

23 Comments

PPPPPPPPPPPP270Dec 2, 20162 votes

I think most people are missing the point of this thread.

OP wants support itemization that isn't build normal AP items to be more offensive and have support items that encourage offensive playstyles. Almost all of the support items are completely defensive and the ones that are offensive are pretty bad now.

For one I would like some more options but Riot is going to screw them up and end up being abused by mid laners.

It would be nice to have more universal usage in items like Dota 2 has. Force staff, eul's scepter of divinity, blink dagger, solar crest, drum of endurance, and glimmer cape.

chipndip1Dec 2, 20161 votes

Fuck it, I'm pasting this post in the op.

RalanrDec 2, 20161 votes

Have you seen supports that build damage? It's basically fighting a mage with a shit ton of utility.

It's fucking annoying.

AttackOnTeemosDec 2, 20161 votes

But I wanna win boss o.o So I will be annoying.

PennsDec 2, 20161 votes

You mean you dont like Zilean doing 900 dmg with a double bomb mid game while making his team unkillable 90% of the time? Or Zyra doing most dmg as support every game she is in?

xd

chipndip1Dec 2, 20161 votes

Do you honestly think that Riot's gonna design 5 new 100 ap items for 2.5k gold a piece if they design support items with ap?

chipndip1Dec 2, 20161 votes

Have you ever fought a Malphite that built damage? It's almost literally an aoe one-shot on your back line. Also annoying, but no one seems to realize that's a thing.

Maybe Riven with CoC?

Or other skirmishers that build tanky?

Hell, even just a damn mage that builds damage can end up being Veigar.

Besides, the point is that, for both tank supports and mage supports, there's no offense-oriented itemization in nearly any fashion outside of Ardent Censor or legit bad ones.

RalanrDec 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Have you ever fought a Malphite that built damage? It's almost literally an aoe one-shot on your back line. Also annoying, but no one seems to realize that's a thing.

Maybe Riven with CoC?

Or other skirmishers that build tanky?

Hell, even just a damn mage that builds damage can end up being Veigar.

Besides, the point is that, for both tank supports and mage supports, there's no offense-oriented itemization in nearly any fashion outside of Ardent Censor or legit bad ones.

What world do you live in where no one realizes the BS of AP Malphite and how do I get there?

chipndip1Dec 2, 20161 votes

And yet no one realizes the hypocrisy of complaining about supports possibly doing "damage" when it's totally fine for ANY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME to do damage.

This isn't even really about "just doing damage". It's about having itemization that fully fleshes out the things you'd EXPECT to be able to do in the role in general. I don't know how many times I gotta say it, but:

If we're worried about items being taken mid/top, just design a combo of stats and effects that deter the item from getting out of hand in a solo lane, like when we slashed FQC's mana regen from 150% to 75%
Even if supports get to role with some ap on every item, that doesn't mean they're gonna have 80 - 100 ap on every item. Just make new support items that offer less ap than mid laner items that aren't 3k to make.
Supports can build a Codex and chunk you in-lane RIGHT NOW. Why is everyone worried about "supports that hurt me" when that's entirely possible as soon as they try building FQC, assuming they aren't building EotW, which isn't that often anyway?

RalanrDec 2, 20161 votes

I guess one reason is that support items are meant to be cheap and damage is meant to be expensive. So to allow supports to build damage on their budget would allow other champions to just abuse it.

And honestly damage in the game is already high. We don't need it higher.

chipndip1Dec 2, 20161 votes

So we make it so everyone else gets to enjoy fluid item choices and "smart decision making" with their builds at the expense of supports, then we wonder why no one wants to queue for the role.

The role is half-way gimped, then overcompensated in other areas. I mean, it's not like sustain ISN'T high in the game right now thanks to Redemption's addition with its aoe healing and Locket's even bigger shields, but because it isn't "damage" it's fine to flood support itemization with a shit ton of defensive items to the point where half those items sort of suck now.

Brutalitops01Dec 2, 20161 votes

Bard Blitzcrank Karma Lulu Lux Morgana Sona Zilean Zyra

Step 1: play any of those champs support Step 2: proceed to build gold item, Sightstone, and then full AP Step 3: tons of damage (profit)

chipndip1Dec 2, 20161 votes

Step 3: Proceed to build damage items you can hardly afford that don't cater to your job as a support in the slightest, even when the point of this post is that every other class has possible pivot items to address playstyle differences or decision making differences for the match at hand.

Brutalitops01Dec 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Step 3: Proceed to build damage items you can hardly afford that don't cater to your job as a support in the slightest, even when the point of this post is that every other class has possible pivot items to address playstyle differences or decision making differences for the match at hand.

"Can hardly afford"

Yet these guys already (especially Zyra and Brand) can consistently deal the most damage of any champion in the game in any game they're picked in built like that. Oh, and next patch it's gonna be even worse, since Rylai's is gonna be 600 gold cheaper.

Also, I have literally been 1-shot by all of the champions I listed (except the Bard, haven't seen anyone pull off a full AP support build with him yet, however I have myself 1v1'd enemy ADCs in the mid-game with him) while they were building support items.

chipndip1Dec 2, 20161 votes

Alright, lemme break this down in a way you'll understand.

Brand and Zyra do way high damage for 2 reasons.

Riot said that they want these champs to be mid/support pivots, and even wanted Zyra to primarily be a support, using their damage output. To manage and balance this, they gave them new passives that'd allow them to rack up a ton of damage when played "the right way" by piling on more damage from their kits reapplying more damage over and over. Brand's DoT, ult, and possible passive aoe as well as Zyra's increased plant production and her ult's ability to increase each plant's damage are different ways that these champs get significantly more mileage off of fewer casts to do more damage when played well. Riot upped their potential damage through chaining their passives and spells significantly.
On top of the fact that a ton of damage dealing potential has been moved around in these champs, both of these champs are aoe champs. An aoe champ doing 500 to 4 people is going to do more damage than a more focused champ doing 700 to 2 or even a fed assassin doing 1.3k damage to one champ. Sure, you did 2k damage and Talon did 1.3k, but Talon did 1.3k to someone with 1.2k health, and your 500 a piece simply chunked 4 people. Who cares if Teemo does 50k damage if most of it was just shrooms lying around and people healing the damage off shortly after?

With this said, if you make it so that these champs can build scalings easier as supports, then they can easily take base damage nerfs and compensate those with scalings so they aren't so painful to even look at during laning. If they don't get to build much ap for most of the game since it's so expensive, their bases are going to remain high so they compensate that and continue to support.

As for you getting one shot by a Sona and a Lulu building support items...you're Silver V, but holy shit what on Earth are you doing wrong?

RivuoDec 2, 20161 votes

Idk about you.. But some supports have % health in them for a reason...

Braum can solo an adc himself up until 15-20 minutes... Thresh is known for fucking adcs up and taking kills.

Sona is the queen of poke.. Blitzcranks R has a 300 base at level 1? His hook + knockup will do 30-40% of your health itself.

Zileans double bombs.... Are enough as is...

Morgana lands a Q + W + her ult and you're done...

Dont even understand how you can complain about supports..

chipndip1Dec 2, 20162 votes

All of these things have nothing to do with the thread at hand. The thread's about itemization options that are designed for the role, not game play patterns or kits.

The point is that the role only really allows for those that enjoy defensive play to enjoy it at all. Itemization for supports is straight defense, and any time Riot has a "fun new idea" to shake things up, it's another freaking defensive item. Hell, they made Banner go from something you can make out of Aegis as a sort of hybrid item to something that has a more offensive application (roaming minion taking turrets) with nothing but defensive stats, so now who builds that shit when you're OBVIOUSLY gonna build Locket when you buying Aegis for defensive purposes?

RivuoDec 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

All of these things have nothing to do with the thread at hand. The thread's about itemization options that are designed for the role, not game play patterns or kits.

The point is that the role only really allows for those that enjoy defensive play to enjoy it at all. Itemization for supports is straight defense, and any time Riot has a "fun new idea" to shake things up, it's another freaking defensive item. Hell, they made Banner go from something you can make out of Aegis as a sort of hybrid item to something that has a more offensive application (roaming minion taking turrets) with nothing but defensive stats, so now who builds that shit when you're OBVIOUSLY gonna build Locket when you buying Aegis for defensive purposes?

Supports arent allowed to be any stronger.. They will literally break the game if they had anything beneficial

Brutalitops01Dec 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Braum can solo an adc himself up until 15-20 minutes... Thresh is known for fucking adcs up and taking kills.

Hell, I once 1v1'd a Nasus like 40 minutes in as full tank/support Braum. And I won. Had a little help from a super minion wave, but that didn't show up until he was on like 600 HP.

chipndip1Dec 2, 20161 votes

Idk what elo this is where this happens but note that a lot of people are trying to int feed to get down there.

Brutalitops01Dec 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Idk what elo this is where this happens but note that a lot of people are trying to int feed to get down there.

This was before I had even played ranked for the first time. Don't think that "unranked" is something you can int to get down to.

chipndip1Dec 2, 20161 votes

Even norms have mmr.

CerealBoxOfDoomDec 2, 20161 votes

tanks destroy buildings

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