If Ivern is OP...

Troll for Trump·Mar 27, 2017·1 votes·2,230 views

If Ivern is OP and needs nerfs (I'm not arguing he doesn't, his winrate is over where it should be), what would you do to nerf him reasonably?

9 Comments

AhristocatsMar 27, 20172 votes

there are way to balance him without gutting his main strength, you can either:

-nerf his base stats, ivern is too damn hard to kill he shouldn't be impossible to kill if he buys multiple tanky items -nerf his E cd, but apparently riot wants ivern to be balanced around low cd shield (which is why they nerfed his shield strength, shield damage, slow duration, slow %) -nerf his E range, the range of his shield is so stupid LOL compared to any shield in the game -nerf his Q cd, (with cdr)6 sec cd 2 sec snare that gives a dash while dealing 260+80% AP is not okay -nerf his W passive damage+Q damage, an enchenter able to 1v1 a diver (yes he can if he kites them) should not be allowed

you shouldn't do all of that in once, but you can see why ivern has 58% win rate, his kit currently isn't fine he has too much the thing is ivern is supposed to help melees with his Q+E+R, not doing too much damage or shielding too much

RalanrMar 27, 20171 votes

I think hitting his base stats would be the best place since it helps show the weakness to early game duelist junglers.

Since he doesn't actually need to fight to clear, he can sacrifice base stats.

Gregor GysiMar 27, 20171 votes

I'd argue that his Ult CD is pretty broken. It's 120 sec on max rank and as he has 45% CDR lategame it gets reduced to 66 seconds CD. Daisy has a 60 second duration..

l Joe Rogan lApr 5, 20172 votes

Late game daisy is not tanky enough to survive more than 3 seconds of attention from most enemies. An ADC can usually destroy daisy in a couple hits late game, so the 60 second duration is rarely applicable since daisy's health regeneration was heavily nerfed. It sounds broken on paper but it isn't really. Maybe AP Ivern has a super good daisy (since she scales with AP) but a normal support-build Ivern has a very balanced daisy I would say. It feels like another champion joining the mix when she comes out becomes her presence can't be ignored, but that doesn't mean she is overpowered. imo

Troll for TrumpMar 27, 20171 votes

I'm 80% sure he can't 1v1 a diver unless the diver is stupid.

His base stats aren't that tough.

I think the items should be nerfed, since they're also really common in bot lane supports.

Nerfing the range on E is a good idea.

Yeah, his Q cd could be nerfed.

Ivern doesn't do a lot of dmg if you build a shred of MR, because he doesn't get M.Pen and he doesn't get any significant amount of AP.

RaoulApr 5, 20172 votes

Nerf Redemption, Nerf Locket, buff other Support Items.

Honestly, the main reason he is strong is because he is a Supporter who can go full out support items AND has a steady income.

Big LincolnMar 27, 20171 votes

smack the fuck out of his base utility so that the cheap support build isn't so effective on him

cool down nerfs, like rubick said

l Joe Rogan lApr 5, 20171 votes

Ivern is the only support jungler, and as such he has enabled team compositions that allow for more carries in other postitions, hence a winrate higher than expected. Nerfing Ivern into the ground is not a viable solution, it would remove the very unique and interesting niche that he fills. It's okay for him to have a high winrate when he does something literally no other champion can do! If he didn't have a high winrate because of this, he would have a severe problem with his kit. They should increase the idea of a supportive jungler (increase the wards in a tracker knife for example, add a support-based jungle item (like an item with +10% heals and shields as one of its stats)) to help promote other champions into being supportive jungler rather than carry junglers like lee sin or graves that are far too common.

Currently, the only really broken part of Ivern's kit is his passive. Particularly, the interaction with smite. The only reason he can survive invades is his kiting is particularly strong with his sheild+slow and snare. Currently, his smite mechanic is the only thing about him that can't be countered. Even if you ward your own buff, if he has smite and you aren't directly next to him, he will get your buff, and then just snare or slow you and run away with it. This can't realistically be countered, and it isn't fun to play against.

Making it so that smite only dramatically increases the rate of grove growth, rather than instantly clearing the camp, would allow for other champions to more easily protect their buffs. Currently, it is far too easy for Ivern to start with 3 buffs, meaning almost every game the enemy automatically gets a disadvantage.

I don't know why everyone wants massive changes to champions, minor changes until the problem is fixed is WAY better. It lets mains of the champions not feel like the champion was gutted, but rather adjusted until fair.

MelvinizzleApr 9, 20171 votes

To basically copy paste a comment I just made; Ivern is strong due to people being able to use their better macro play at higher levels with a simpler kit than most junglers (why he's bad a low Elos), people not understanding his counterplay (why he's bad/at best mid tier in LCS after the Daisy HP nerf), his kit is solid and (in my opinion) most importantly by the fact that Chalice, Redemption, Locket, Ardent, Mejai's and Windspeakers are so good on him they're basically an extension of his kit.

I personally think a nerf to CD on E and Daisy along with stronger AP ratios and lower base damages would fix a lot of these problems because it'd make them less spammable (hurting idiots playing Ivern because they have to make meaningful decisions as to when to shield and who), he itemises worse with nothing but support items meaning he has to get some AP (more expensive balancing the curve on his win rate based on game to a bit straighter of a line), weaker early game so players can understand that they can kill him early if they ward well and you are still rewarding people for playing him on point and balancing him out overall so people don't pick him up because of a good winrate