Can we get a new Design Thread by Riot?

KONO RUBICK DA··19 votes·917 views

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=293417

it's obvious that riot stopped to listen their own design philosphy written when they started league, mostly on the anti-fun part,

> Anti-fun is the negative experience your opponents feel when you do something that prevents them from 'playing their game' or doing activities they consider fun

oh really? what about Kalista TahmKench ? Kalista preventing every non mobile champions to play, tahm kench feeling like you can't even move, Rengar making your map dark every 60 sec

> what appears to be an interesting choice that is then completely unrewarding,

Somehow, it is ok to building gravious wound against DrMundo and still being forced to focus him else he will kil all your team with his retarded damage,

> When a skill is highly unreliable, we have to overpower it to make it 'satisfying enough....and it would be a lot less fun

Khazix isolation, Swain range spell that can't match shit, good luck against Orianna Ziggs Brand Lux , Mordekaiser fucking Q, KogMaw new W, and arguablyGangplank Keg that needs to oneshot you.

conclusion? either wake up, or just make a new philosophy where you say that you don't give a shit about anti-fun.

16 Comments

Ahristocats10 votes

{quoted}

just make a new philosophy

L$C big play$ LeeSin LeeSin LeeSin

The Sword Saint5 votes

That's not how those terms work. He even explained them, but you're just fishing for upvotes. Antifun is created any time you take an action against an enemy in a pvp game, what matters is if the amount of fun on both sides outweighs the antifun on both sides, with emphasis given on the one taking the action to ensure that actively playing a champion is enjoyable. An anti combo is about a champions own kit not flowing well, not about breaking other champion's combos. The unreliable statement alludes to a sliding scale of short range targeted abilities to long range skillshots, and why the range and power of skills vary with reliability.

D357R0Y3R3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Dancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G2GWe466,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-12-30T16:43:22.722+0000)

That's not how those terms work. He even explained them, but you're just fishing for upvotes. Antifun is created any time you take an action against an enemy in a pvp game, what matters is if the amount of fun on both sides outweighs the antifun on both sides, with emphasis given on the one taking the action to ensure that actively playing a champion is enjoyable. An anti combo is about a champions own kit not flowing well, not about breaking other champion's combos. The unreliable statement alludes to a sliding scale of short range targeted abilities to long range skillshots, and why the range and power of skills vary with reliability.

i doubt it but let's see

"Antifun is created any time you take an action against an enemy in a pvp game, what matters is if the amount of fun on both sides outweighs the antifun on both sides"

that just means that he is right, kalista decides if you chase her or if she chases you if you dare to play Darius Olaf Chogath how are you taking fun with this? Rengar deleting you without a single counterplay every time he has ulti, i even saw rengars that wait you in the base to kill you a second time, i'm sorry but no sane person in this world will have fun playing against this.

and by the definition of the rioter, if you have an unreliable spell you don't have a fun champ, Mordekaiser for example, i agree that swain's range isn't unreliable but now with his new snare duration he is like having 0 tools against ranged mages

D357R0Y3R2 votes

{quoted}

> Anti-Combo > This one is bad. This is essentially when one ability you have diminishes the effectiveness of another in a frustrating manner

Wait why is Urgot's passive allowed? reducing all your damage by 15%

this design seems incoherant as hell

ACENOX1 votes

{quoted}

Wait why is Urgot's passive allowed? reducing all your damage by 15%

urgot is being reworked,

{quoted}

this design seems incoherant as hell

mainly

PogChampEleGiggl1 votes

Anti-fun = Veigar Chogath Yasuo Riven Heimerdinger Rengar Yorick Garen Jax MasterYi TahmKenchLux DrMundo rest are fine imo. I feel like all the listed champions need a rework (or in some cases, another one) the most compared to other

Best princess EU3 votes

{quoted}

Anti-fun = Veigar Chogath Yasuo Riven Heimerdinger Rengar Yorick Garen Jax MasterYi

rest are fine imo. I feel like all the listed champions need a rework (or in some cases, another one) the most compared to other

OP also listed champions that feels anti fun to play, Malicious metal said multiple time how he hates the new morde's Q because it's either nothing or all.

Sonicpeta1 votes

U forgot satan

AATTRROOXX1 votes

With the windwall one they mean if it is in the same kit. Not if another champion has that ability.

doublelift fg8 votes

{quoted}

With the windwall one they mean if it is in the same kit. Not if another champion has that ability.

Fiddlesticks fear pushes enemies out of his ulti+drain

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

{quoted}

With the windwall one they mean if it is in the same kit. Not if another champion has that ability.

fixed

Penns1 votes

Isolated Kha Q does 800 dmg with 2 items and a pickaxe. That is already "overpowered" and pretty fun to use. And why are Lux and Brand in that "list"? Both just kill you if they hit their Q cc lol. And if Ori hits a nice Q she can follow with ult and W, which is more than rewarding.

Best princess EU1 votes

{quoted}

Isolated Kha Q does 800 dmg with 2 items and a pickaxe. That is already "overpowered" and pretty fun to use. And why are Lux and Brand in that "list"? Both just kill you if they hit their Q cc lol. And if Ori hits a nice Q she can follow with ult and W, which is more than rewarding.

isolated kha Q is overpowered, but with the towers, monsters, minions, and allies you have a little chance to have someone isolated since the isolation nerf, if kha6 had a way to isolate you his Q would have been reliable

Penns1 votes

Idk, I never had problems hitting isolated Qs with him. Even when there are 2 champs close to each other, the small "isolation radius" was often enough to still get it. Of course people might play better around that in higher elos, but I can only speak for myself. And I think Kha might even be a bit too strong if you can trap your enemies well.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

Isolated Kha Q does 800 dmg with 2 items and a pickaxe. That is already "overpowered" and pretty fun to use. And why are Lux and Brand in that "list"? Both just kill you if they hit their Q cc lol. And if Ori hits a nice Q she can follow with ult and W, which is more than rewarding.

Lux and brand are overpowered that's why they feel anti-fun, but there is nothing wrong with their kite (at least brand), i can understand that lux is cancer since she waits from 1000 range that her CC hits to kill you.

Sire Hippington1 votes

When a skill is highly unreliable, we have to overpower it to make it 'satisfying enough....and it would be a lot less fun

you forgot the juggernaut patch and fioras rework here...

ever since the gp/fiora reworks, riot goes way to hard on high extreme risk(low reliabillity), high extreme reward, which imo promotes antifun more than fun. i don't like beeing kited 24/7 as darius and dealibng poor damage till i get 5passive stacks, which doesn't happen most of the time. At the same time, it feels horrible to face a darius that lands the 3 man Q at 10% hp and suddenly heals half his health, reaches 5stacks and axe-murders everyone. Befor the rework, Darius was already easy to kit, but he still was more reliable, while less opressing in a succes case.

and don't get me started on the 'save' mechanics. I hate no champ more than kallista and tham, especially kallista. Not only is her passive very overbearing vs certain champs, but her ult makes it so that her support can't be out of position post 6. No matter what he does, he can be easily saved out of any situation by pressing one button...

Also: Anti-Combo! isn't thatitem 3151 ? Flat pen is mostly good for bursting down squishys, but the %current-health dot is best for slowly wearing down opponents. If you apply it after a huge upfront burst, it does very little damage - anticombo!

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