Zed has been a dominant ban-worthy pick for months. Why…

Ultîma · 2016-04-20T13:44:43.577Z

QSS will no longer remove Zed's ultimate debuff. As if buying a magic resist item against an AD champion wasn't indication enough that their kit lacks a phenomenal amount of counterplay. Why is this change even being considered if Zed is where he's at now in the meta? This only seems like it will (once again, as with Duskblade) exasperate his strengths, while leaving his lane opponent few options to deal with him. Edit: A lot of people are claiming "but he got nerfed recently!" which is technically true, but forget that was following the inclusion of Duskblade, which was pretty much designed to synergize with his kit. And susprise surprise, if you look at Zed's Highest Win % Core Build it involves rushing it following Ghostblade. The hit to his ultimate following that item's release was completely inconsequential, as his winrate actually climbed from patch 6.3 all the way to 6.6 (those were almost two months apart btw) before finally taking a hit in 6.7, proving that not only nerfs were warranted, they were insufficient following an indirect buff to his kit, as will happen with the QSS change, except this time they won't even touch him.

Handin Out NapsApr 20, 20165 votes

These arguments are always so terrible lol. That champion is popular so he should have a 45% win rate no matter what or he needs nerfs. Holy logic.

Masala ChaiApr 20, 201640 votes

Considering Zed is your most played champion at 247k Mastery Points with him, I'm not surprised that you want to keep him freelo.

Handin Out NapsApr 20, 20165 votes

Lol get real man, no on wants their main to be strong. The only thing people want is to play their main. Every Zed nerf, and watching his play rate slowly drop from 20% to 15% to 10% is a blessing for me, I'd rather play Zed back in the cinderhulk meta than listen to people call me a freelo abuser and say I'm bad for playing a champion that I've been playing from lvl 20 to Diamond.

Edit: And honestly the fact that I only have 240k points on a champion I've been playing so long, when other mains around my level would have 300k-500k, just shows how many different Champs I actually play.

Masala ChaiApr 20, 201641 votes

If you break 600k, you'll be one of the top 20 zed players in the world in terms of Champion Mastery

Here's the rest of your statistics: Yasuo 120k Rengar 103k Lee Sin 99k Riven 69k Ekko 59k TF 52k Master Yi 49k Viktor 48k Azir 36k LB 34k Elise 33k Darius 30k Udyr 29k

Note how many of these champions were busted or oppressive at some point since the release of Champion Mastery, nearly all of them. You're hardly a Zed main, you're a FOTM main

Heckin SupportApr 20, 201624 votes

This guy must need chemo therapy from all the cancer he exposes himself to.

Handin Out NapsApr 21, 20161 votes

Alright I'm a fotm main, check my ranked history through every season and tell me that I'm anything other than a Zed main. Just because I enjoy playing these champions in normal games doesn't make me a "fotm main". Pls remember that an "FOTM main" refers to ranked because they play champions that will give them the most elo. Meanwhile my ranked history is void of a lot of my highest mastery champions. It's almost like I only main Zed or something. In normal games I will play what is fun for me and most of the time it turns out to be mobile, high damage champions which just so happens to be what the boards deem as cancer, sorry I get bored of afk farming as Anivia and playing your beloved never broken tanks. It's normal games I'll have my fun with champions that aren't boring as shit to play ty.

Also out of curiosity how did you even find those numbers out. I haven't even heard of a website that can do that.

ÑapoleoniApr 21, 20165 votes

There's a bug on client that allows you to look up some dudes champion mastery.

Steps to Repeat

Step 1: Ender Desired Summoner Name into Search Bar Step 2: Go to your own character page, but before everything loads in click the champion page.

You can only do it once per opening of the client.

Proof: You have 4388 points on Akali

Requirements

Have a shit computer/internet/both/client/have quick fingers.

Masala ChaiApr 21, 20161 votes

There is a website, http://championmasterylookup-derpthemeus.rhcloud.comand tbh, I don't play a crap ton of tanks either.

Vayne 226k Draven 161k Diana 157k Kalista 111k Flora 90k Twitch 75k Fizz 32k Master Yi 27k (only one game since last June) Tristana 22k Elise 21k

Not one of those are tanks, however only 5 of them were ever FOTM since I started playing (Omega Squad Teemo Launch) and I didn't pick up Elise until well after they nerfed her Q and Kalista way after her 90% auto scaling nerf. And for my first half of my climb to 30, I played lane Yi, which probably barely counts as FOTM.

Masala ChaiApr 21, 20162 votes

{quoted}

There is a website, http://championmasterylookup-derpthemeus.rhcloud.comand tbh, I don't play a crap ton of tanks either.

Vayne 226k Draven 161k Diana 157k Kalista 111k Flora 90k Twitch 75k Fizz 32k Master Yi 27k (only one game since last June) Tristana 22k Elise 21k

Not one of those are tanks, however only 5 of them were ever FOTM since I started playing (Omega Squad Teemo Launch) and I didn't pick up Elise until well after they nerfed her Q and Kalista way after her 90% auto scaling nerf. And for my first half of my climb to 30, I played lane Yi, which probably barely counts as FOTM.

5 of these are also considered cancer so I guess, OK.

Handin Out NapsApr 21, 20161 votes

Oh cool there is a website, interesting. Yeah was referring to how most people on the boards are either a tank or mage main >.> Not really aiming at you with that one.

Masala ChaiApr 21, 20161 votes

Oops the link is bad, here's a better one: https://championmasterylookup-derpthemeus.rhcloud.com/

GayFluffyUnicornApr 20, 20162 votes

If he's so freelo why don't YOU go and play him every game? Freelo means, pick him top or mid you win, no matter how good or bad. But somehow most of you anti-zed crybabies played 5 games, lost every game and go to the boards cry about Zed being freelo. Oh yeah, bronze 3 and never played Zed. Congratz.

Masala ChaiApr 20, 20162 votes

I don't play him because I want my enemy midlaner to have a fair advantage, especially if they play immobile AP mages, that can't rush Zhonya's due to the lack of stats that it provides, of course, if they pick him, I'll just take F+ Exhaust, and pick Diana, Lulu or Malzahar. I should have at least a chance of playing against him when playing any other character, and yes immobile mages

He's practically AD LB, who doesn't really fall off once people buy Maw or BV. (BV is actually garbo rn). Yet Zed's winrate is a whopping 7% higher than hers. They both have fairly similar learning curves (it's really easy to pick up, harder to master), and fairly similar patterns (lane-bully assassin, super strong level 6 power spike, roaming potential). The only pro that LeBlanc has is that she has better single target burst, and slightly more safety with Distortion + ult. Zed has a last hitting passive, a lot of mobility, fairly safe poke, and is gated by energy rather than mana. He can farm under turret super easy.

You also know Zed is a problem when Lissandra doesn't net close to a positive winrate vs him.

Second, fyi I completely tilted my promos and went 1-9. Also play on an ultrabook (Asus Zenbook UX305- FA, 4 FPS on lowest in TF kappa123) if that makes sense, bah. I suppose it's sorta my fault for that in all senses... I could improve on macros because I kinda suck at that (auto push Diana and Malz). I only have my horrible macro play, and inconsistent play patterns to blame. ;-;, I joined less than a year ago, so I don't expect much from me.

And he is pretty busted. Pros such as PoE did say that he is one of the best midlaners for solo queue.

And he literally is being spammed by you this season in contrast to last season, you played a total of 41 games of Zed last season, this season you've already played 123 games of him in ranked. That's a LARGE increase, and your statistics deliberately show that Zed is BLATANTLY the best midlaner in the game. Because you have a trend across previous seasons of playing whatever is considered to be the be the best midlaner of that season (Ahri last season, LB the season before that, and then Diana before that).

Here are your stats from since Champion Mastery was released:

Zed 120k LeBlanc 77 k Ahri 64k Kassadin 49,999 (slick) Yasuo 47k Graves 39k Lucian 35k Viktor 30k (you actually haven't played him since December) Lux 29k Vel'Koz 27k on the dot Kennen 26k (November) Lee Sin 26k Jax 25k Thresh 24k Nasus 23k Vayne 22k Ekko 22k

Most of these have been VERY FOTM at some point since 5.7

VasilisGreenApr 21, 20161 votes

you don't play Zed because you want your opponent to have a fair advantage.... You are contadicting your own comment... By Definition, any advantage over someone in a fight other than skill is unfair. That's why it is called advantage. It's something that you have and the other doesn't.

And let's be real, you can't just ask for everyone to be equal...

Zed Balance is weakness

Masala ChaiApr 21, 20163 votes

And that is why you just admitted Zed is OP. Congratulations, your argument is now null and void.

VasilisGreenApr 21, 20161 votes

by stating that you are contradicting your own statements and telling you the definition of "Advantage" i proved that Zed is OP? Or is it because i said that we can't have everyone to be equal is impossible? I didn't even say anything aboout Zed himself to begin with...

You can't have everyone to be equal simply because EVERY CHAMPION IS DIFFERENT and thus, they all have different mechanics that make them unique. Everyone has a weakness. If you can find it, exploit it and win. If you can't then lose. If you know your own champion's weaknesses, hide them and play around them. Simple as that. If you can't do that then LEARN TO DO IT!

Masala ChaiApr 21, 20161 votes

"you don't play Zed because you want your opponent to have a fair advantage.... "

There you implied that Zed counters the majority of the midlane pool with the exception of those who specifically counter him. If they pick Zed, I won't play fair either.

What is Zed's #1 weakness?

Wave clear? Lane prescence? Mobility? Burst?

Ahri is beyond safe, but loses raw assassination power, and scales fairly well. Akali has strong single target damage, and her sustained damage isn't too bad, but she doesn't have an escape and has no good cc. Diana is naturally tanky and has a lot of burst, but lacks escapes. LeBlanc scales very poorly into late game, and her AoE damage is horrible Katarina suffers from Old Fiora Syndrome, she has 0 cc and dependent on resets. Talon can be peeled far easier than Zed can, due to no untargetability.

Zed with this new patch will have much lower levels of counterplay with the two items that counter him being nerfed. Those 2 items do not counter his kit anymore.

VasilisGreenApr 21, 20161 votes

YOU said "I don't play Zed because I want my opponent to have a fair advantage" and I said "you don't play Zed because you want your opponent to have a fair advantage" sarcasticaly. Was that so hard to figure out? That sentence was to point out how YOU are contradicting YOUR OWN argument...

But it seems that some people really are just dense and can't figure out irony on their own...

Zed's kit is fully skillshot reliant apart from his Ult. If you have proper footwork, you areperfect. Zed's energy based, so, after ONE rotation he is useless for some good 15 seconds. In order for Zed to harrass effectively, he must use his shadow, his only escape tool in case of a Gank. You have a window of 22 seconds to abuse his lack of retaliation AND lack of escape. Zed is MELEE, unlike most of his midlane matchups, He must be close to the minions to farm, EXPLOIT IT! Zed's only AOE ability is his E, try to stay away from his shadow and/or begin your sidestepping manouvers when you see the shadow coming at you, even if he hits his E, he can't hit the Qs and that's his major damage. After that, DON'T stick around his shadow like an idiot, he can E again before the shadow fades.

So, to recap, Zed's weaknesses

Skillshot reliant
He is melee and can be zoned out of farm
Huge energy costs, he is useless after a full rotation and can't retaliate
Long windows of valnerability after the shadow is used
Enemy players with a brain.

I hope this list is clear enough for you to understand.

Bye bye

Masala ChaiApr 21, 20161 votes

So is practically every other midlaner
True, but so are Akali, Diana, Fizz, Katarina, Talon, etc. That's most of the middle assassins role and most of their ranged harass is pretty awful. In contrast to Zed's Q which does a lot in lane
His energy costs are rather high, and his returns are rather unreliable.
What about the other assassins that don't even have escapes to begin with? (Akali, Diana). The immobile mages that have no escapes. If you go in aggressively on practically any champion, and you get ganked, you're going to pay heavily on EVERY champion you play.
So challenger players don't have brains. K.

VasilisGreenApr 22, 20161 votes

Akali has free spellvamp and can sustain a lot better than Zed, has 0 skillshots. Diana's Q is easy to hit. Fizz is what he is, i don't even have to talk about him. Talon's Poke is literaly undodgeable if he shoots it in the right direction and his burst is also a lot higher than Zed's, Katarina also has 0 skillshots.

Both akali and diana have their own defensive mechanisms, Diana has her CC and shield, Akali has her invisibility and free sustain with spellvamp.

You won't ever see any challenger player stand next to Zed's shadow like an idiot as most lower elo players do. Don't kid yourself.

Masala ChaiApr 22, 20161 votes

Diana Q and easy to hit do not belong in the same sentence, gated by a 12 second cooldown. Any good player will know that her Q curves to her right so the most effective way is to walk to her left, and when I'm laning against her, it's so easy!

And invulnerability from Death Mark isn't a defensive mechanism? A non targeted dash isn't a defensive mechanism? I think most people would much rather to have a non targeted dash than having a shield or spell vamp as a defensive mechanism.

VasilisGreenApr 22, 20161 votes

Invulnerability and untargetability are 2 different things

Papa SlothyApr 21, 20161 votes

I would argue that Zed can be peeled somewhat easily cause you can tell exactly where he will appear, I think he's better than Talon because Talon's scalings just drops right into the gutter late game whereas Zed does drop off but it's considerably less especially during this season

YCitizenSnipsYApr 21, 20163 votes

To bad people pick and choose when this is true or not.

http://champion.gg/champion/Jhin

Look at Jhin, Huge play rate, over 50% win rate. And not a thread about him, even though he breaks your rule of balance and popular.

SteelflameApr 21, 20162 votes

I actually consider him ban worthy usually, he is pretty busted as well. He just is nowhere near the level of busted a lot of other champs are atm, and a lot of people don't feel an ADC who is just barely over 50% is too insane compared to champions who are sitting at the door of a 60% winrate at times.

Tik115Apr 21, 20162 votes

The thing is that Jhin has very obvious and solid weaknesses, his wave clear is horrible his early game is laughable his mobility is almost none existent and if you suck with him you get killed.

Zed on the other hand has alot of mobility, great wave clear, has a very strong early game which hardly falls off late game energizes far too well with items and if you fuck up you can just press R again and be K

YCitizenSnipsYApr 21, 20161 votes

Very obvious and solid weaknesses, but a huge majority of players can play him effectively enough to win. His pick rate is 20%, there is only one jungler and one support with that kind of a pick rate, both of which have far worse win rates than Jhin. There isn't a mid laner or a top laner that comes close to that pick rate. No matter how fair you try to make him sound the numbers don't lie, he has to be too strong to be winning as often as he does with the pick rate he does.

Tik115Apr 22, 20162 votes

Thing is the numbers CAN lie.

Leblanc once rocked a sub 40 win rate with something like a 30% play rate but she was still considered too strong due to her silence. Yeah sure Jhin is on the strong side I'm not going to deny it but at the same time it is still nothing compared to say Yasuo and Zed, two champions who have arguably had VERY big problems with them with ether toxic kits (Yasuo) or VERY few weaknesses.

You jump on a Jhin you ether burn sums or get a kill, you jump on a Zed he'll just escape, It's the reason certain champions are high on the ban priority where as others with high winrates get a pass, because those must bans are a much bigger problem then a high win rate champ with huge weaknesses.

Like honestly try listing the weakness of a high win rate champion to a high ban rate champion and you'll see why they're banned so much

SnowplosionApr 21, 20161 votes

Popular or not if a champion is at a 45% win rate, they are underwhelming. Also Zed does not have a higher win rate than other popular champions. Lucian, the most popular champion, has a win rate about one or two percent lower.

ChargeItDownMidApr 21, 20161 votes

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SnowplosionApr 21, 20161 votes

Lee Sin is a high skill cap champion so the his low win rate is not because his popularity. Elise was not sitting at a win rate in the mid forties she was in the high forties and low fifties.

ChargeItDownMidApr 22, 20161 votes

[deleted]

SnowplosionApr 22, 20161 votes

That would make sense because his win rate was higher in higher elo's than lower ones.

And for Elise she was sitting at a pitful 43 percent rework after her gutting for about a season and a half. The on reason it went up to fifty is because she got buffed on 5.16 and Runeglave was added on 5.18. Her highest win rate spike was in the preseason when Runic Echo's was added.

Zed has been a dominant ban-worthy pick for months. Why are you buffing him?

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