Kindred ADC Healing is Kinda Bonkers

Vekkna·Oct 19, 2015·33 votes·4,010 views

Her passive healing on W is going to need some looking at. Maybe it shouldn't proc off of lane minions or the base heal should be looked at. In principle, ADCs should be susceptible to poke. I realize Kindred is short-ranged, but she already has good tools for zoning, mobility, and kiting.

bot lane is a pretty miserable laning experience. It's extremely difficult to engage them but also very difficult to escape their engage. Poking them is completely unviable between Kindred's passive W heal, Shen's healing, relic shield, heal, pots, and Kindred rushing Cutlass.

This isn't a QQ thread. I'm agnostic to Kindred, and I've even enjoyed seeing them pull clever tricks out of their wool/fur. It's obviously a fun and creative champ, but I think that the self-healing needs a close look when they already have very reliable disengage.

77 Comments

Icestar1186Oct 19, 201516 votes

ADC Kindred pays for their sustain with short range, inability to get a lot of stacks, and (relatively) weak late game.

VekknaOct 19, 20156 votes

Not necessarily. A cooperative jungler will gladly ping you to score you some camp takedowns for free stacks, and it can even be easier to pick up some early stacks when you have an engage tank locking down your marks.

The rest of their kit feels balanced to accommodate their range. A passive Sona W (but stronger) feels excessive. In practice, it's virtually impossible to force Kindred to base (esp after 6 when she can just use her R on allies only for 2/3 of a Janna ulti). It doesn't seem OK.

Icestar1186Oct 19, 20153 votes

Passive Sona W? Really? I highly doubt that Kindred can prevent damage nearly as effectively as Sona. Also, there's an easy way to force them out of lane - kill them. Have your jungler gank and kill them.

LankPantsOct 20, 20152 votes

Sona's heal is 30 HP and 50 at rank 2. You can't rank it past this because you need to rank Q. Kindred's healling is stronger than Sona's and unlike Sona's it's tagged onto an ability as an additional passive rather than the ability itself.

Rustling BushOct 19, 20153 votes

{quoted}

ADC Kindred pays for their sustain with short range, inability to get a lot of stacks, and (relatively) weak late game.

really fun wen you have a fiora on the same team healing them more, what is with given hyper carries the ability to have good sustain, kindred already is one of those champions with infinite scaling, i had almost all full build armor on jarvan 2 games ago and i was literal shredded in 3 seconds by the fed kindred.

colesyOct 19, 20152 votes

you haven't got any recent game on jarvan against kindred, stop lying

Rustling BushOct 19, 20153 votes

{quoted}

you haven't got any recent game on jarvan against kindred, stop lying

other profile match history only shows ranked games, i usually stick to normals.

colesyOct 19, 20153 votes

all i saw was an armour stacking jarvan versus jinx

no kindred to be found

Rustling BushOct 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

all i saw was an armour stacking jarvan versus jinx

no kindred to be found

what does the date read on that then, because this was yestarday, and again i said it was normals (teambuilder).

RalanrOct 20, 20153 votes

My normals show up in my match history.

Cause I only play normals.

Earl EulrichOct 19, 20156 votes

she´s incredible vulnerable to all-ins though (not to mention her scaling as adc is meh, a strong laneing is all she has to offer).

VekknaOct 19, 20151 votes

How is she any more vulnerable to all-ins than MF or Lucian or Sivir (pre 6 or without ulti)?

BottleCapsterOct 19, 20157 votes

Low base damage, reliance on passive to scale into late-game, high Q CD if W is down, and 500 range

VekknaOct 19, 20154 votes

Sorry, I honestly don't understand your comment. Let me rephrase:

If Leona engages on Kindred, Kindred can WEQQ after the stun (if they survive). If Leona engages on Sivir or Miss Fortune, what can either of them do to survive better than Kindred?

None of the answers to that question include having 3 more base ad, 500-550 aa range, or late game scaling. MF can slow (8 sec cd) and run away at the lowest base movement in the game. Sivir can use spellshield and hope for the best (22 sec cd).

ADepressedLeonaOct 19, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, I honestly don't understand your comment. Let me rephrase:

If Leona engages on Kindred, Kindred can WEQQ after the stun (if they survive). If Leona engages on Sivir or Miss Fortune, what can either of them do to survive better than Kindred?

None of the answers to that question include having 3 more base ad, 500-550 aa range, or late game scaling. MF can slow (8 sec cd) and run away at the lowest base movement in the game. Sivir can use spellshield and hope for the best (22 sec cd).

Chances are if the Leona and her ADC are good, Kindred's not going to survive.

LordGeovanniOct 20, 20151 votes

dafuq kindreds q isnt high cooldown it just has a point where it can be lower. champions that build full damage 4-11 second cooldowns on their spells and tanks have 7-20 second cooldowns on their spells ( and if you get one that is 7 its the only one on the whole champion) despite not being able to scale their skills and most of them having bad scaleings except ap cho fuk ap cho

Dar RaksadaOct 19, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G064vob2,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-10-19T19:55:14.526+0000)

she´s incredible vulnerable to all-ins though (not to mention her scaling as adc is meh, a strong laneing is all she has to offer).

she seems to be stronger than most in an all-in due to her ulti from what I've seen in game.

Earl EulrichOct 19, 20152 votes

that ulti can easily be played around if your opponents know it well (e.g. just pick alistar and knock her out of it), unlike trynds it affects everyone in the area.

Dar RaksadaOct 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G064vob2,comment-id=000700010000,timestamp=2015-10-19T22:19:34.306+0000)

that ulti can easily be played around if your opponents know it well (e.g. just pick alistar and knock her out of it), unlike trynds it affects everyone in the area.

it can be picked around, sure, it still makes her less vulnerable to all-ins then most adcs (twitch, varus, ashe, kog)

It's really annoying in blind pick though, but I know that doesn't affect balance.

Meep ManOct 20, 20151 votes

While I dont agree that Kindred ADC is anything bad or OP, pretty normal, wouldnt her ultimate completely nullify any all-ins?

Earl EulrichOct 20, 20151 votes

really depends on how you play the all-in...with more bursty-comps (e.g. graves/taric) you just go in, force the ult within 2sec and fall back immediately again - leaving her with the choice to leave lane or risk dying within the next 20sec. with sth. like blitz you can either grab her and burst her within the grab+silence+knockup-cc when you´re confident - or you can just run at her for the all in (she can´t really get away well without using all skills, leaving her vulnerable if she´d get grabbed afterwards even with an ult up) and then try to grab her out of her ultimate (even easier with alistar, he can just point&click knock her out - just another reason why lee is a really good pick vs her in the jungle). also, you can always just fight inside her ult if your confident you´re cds are back once it ends and you can burst her last 10%before she can finish you (and given a huge part of her actual dmg is current-health she really doesn´t do that much if you´re already low).

It´s a really interessting ult, but with lots of abilities to play around it (though they really could improve the visibility of the ult-zone a bit, can be hard to read where you have to stand or if kindred is leaving the zone and you can kill them).

Br4ndonOct 19, 20155 votes

I played against a kindred adc as Nami with a Caitlyn. We couldnt poke her down except with all ins that just outright killed her. Even though the passive healing is small it happens a lot and charges so fast.

I think your suggestion with it procing on jungle monsters is perfect. Maybe champions too.

ManaPotOct 20, 20151 votes

Really? I did the same match up playing as Caitlyn with a Nami support, and Kindred had Thresh with her. It went pretty poorly for them, she rushed bork and did heal a lot from her w yeah but that's all she had. Caitlyn just has so much more range and I was able to easily force her to back because she got shot every time she went to cs.

I suppose the kindred wasn't the best yeah but the point is she seems to have poorer lane match ups than most adcs.

Br4ndonOct 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Really? I did the same match up playing as Caitlyn with a Nami support, and Kindred had Thresh with her. It went pretty poorly for them, she rushed bork and did heal a lot from her w yeah but that's all she had. Caitlyn just has so much more range and I was able to easily force her to back because she got shot every time she went to cs.

I suppose the kindred wasn't the best yeah but the point is she seems to have poorer lane match ups than most adcs.

We were able to easily poke her and she had nothing to answer with. It was just that she was able to heal so often that the poke we did put out was healed up within 30 seconds. She was playing really safe too, so the opportunities to poke her were not often.

Now that i think of it she was probably just playing safe to get charges up for her heal.

The FastOct 19, 20154 votes

Except for the fact that Kindred's damage doesn't really scale as well as it could off of items alone. Taking her anywhere besides jungle is intentionally handicapping your team, because you literally don't get to use, or barely use, an essential part of your kit. Her base AD and AS are garbage, and she is very low range. When it comes to bot lane, she's basically never the best choice, nor probably a good one.

Phoenix Kotori Oct 19, 20153 votes

She has a 43% win rate in bot lane in plat+ atm, honestly sure the sustain may be annoying, but so what, as you out farm her lane game is awful unless she gets her stacks rolling.

She has very limited poke, no hard CC, no tankyness, no true damage, no traditional steroid, low range, low AD, and low AS. I think that's enough of a tradeoff for her to have sustain.

Also it doesn't proc off lane minions she has to auto a champion or monster to get ther sustain.

SenpaiAzirOct 19, 20152 votes

Also it doesn't proc off lane minions she has to auto a champion or monster to get ther sustain.

Last time I played Kindred ADC, I'm 100% sure that Kindred can get the sustain from lane minions.

3TWarriorOct 19, 20152 votes

low attack speed? kindreds I play against easily have double the attack speed of a normal ADC with just one item

Phoenix Kotori Oct 19, 20153 votes

Kindred AS: 0.625 (+0% – 42.5%) Vayne AS: 0.658 (+0% – 68.0%) Twitch AS: 0.679 (+0% – 57.5%) Kalista AS: 0.658 (+0% – 56.1%) Lucian AS: 0.638 (+0% – 56.1%) Caitlyn AS: 0.625 (+0% – 68.0%) Ezreal AS: 0.625 (+0% – 47.6%)

She has low base AS (which matters a lot) and she has some of the lowest growth besides Jinx (who has minigun' steroid).

PerishSoftlyOct 20, 20151 votes

upvoted for numbers

Celeste BenalOct 19, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Girls Love,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G064vob2,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-10-19T17:05:16.448+0000)

Also it doesn't proc off lane minions she has to auto a champion or monster to get ther sustain.

Yes it does. Done it.

LadyRenlyOct 19, 20153 votes

Kindreds heal is really only relevant towards poke. Even with a Shen, they are susceptible to forced engages such as blitz hooks

VekknaOct 19, 20157 votes

Which adc doesn't die from a blitz hook?

Malicious MetalOct 19, 20157 votes

Mordekaiser.

Hue

TacoTheKittenOct 19, 20159 votes

Mordekaiser well someone's gotta give me a gapcloser.

RalanrOct 20, 20151 votes

Mordekaiser at least until I buy item 3116 .

I don't play him enough to say if this works. :P

TacoTheKittenOct 19, 20153 votes

Just make the w not proc off minions and she's fine I think. Or maybe have it heal 50% less from lane minions?

Professor WardOct 19, 20152 votes

Yeah this is the problem i had If you dont kill her in one engage or get 2 engages back to back she just sustains back to full hp

Celeste BenalOct 19, 20152 votes

Well, that is how sustain works. But I don't see anyone crying about any other sustain bot lane ever. Bring kill potential. Leona + Draven would kick Kindred's ass.

VekknaOct 19, 20154 votes

You're ignoring the important distinction of the ADC having no-cost personal sustain that is stronger throughout the early game than sustain supports can provide (aside from Soraka).

When you add that to the healing you get from a Shen or Alistar, you have near Soraka-level sustain with the benefit of having a super-tank to engage/disengage and cc.

AbyssphereOct 19, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Celeste Benal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G064vob2,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-10-19T20:17:05.323+0000)

Well, that is how sustain works. But I don't see anyone crying about any other sustain bot lane ever. Bring kill potential. Leona + Draven would kick Kindred's ass.

Most sustain isn't costless. The reason people complain about Vladimir is very similar to this.

SEKAIOct 19, 20152 votes

We have an ADC for every job these days.

I guess it wouldn't be shocking to see an ADC that tanks later down in the line too.

SlytherinUmbreonOct 19, 20151 votes

we already have that Urgot

SEKAIOct 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

we already have that

item 3070

PartholonianOct 20, 20153 votes

Top Quinn Jungle Kindred Mid Varus ADC Jinx Support Ashe

...no, I don't think that would work. Even though you could defend most of those as individual picks, when you put them together they have massive teamcomp issues.