Personally, I think Tanks should get an overhaul as opposed to immobile mages.

ModCaptainMårvelous··15 votes·1,222 views

#Intro

Meddler said that Riot would probably look into reworking and/or revitalizing immobile mages. While I think they need some love, it's a personal belief of mine that tanks need an overhaul drastically more than immobile mages do. The reasoning for this is the comparison you can draw between the types of immobile mages versus the types of tanks.

With immobile mages, you have singular lockdown champs (Malzahar ), combo champs (Brand ), tanky champs (Swain ), siege mages (Lux Ziggs ), AoE teamfighters (ZyraKarthus ), the crowd controllers (Orianna Morgana ), jack-of-all-trade mages (Viktor ), zone controllers (Syndra Heimerdinger )and flat damage/burst champs (Velkoz Veigar ). Yes, there's definitely some overlap but the point is most of these characters have clearly defined strengths comparative to champions in the same category?

But what about tanks?

Going off what Riot primarily lists as tanks, we have: Alistar Amumu Blitzcrank Chogath Galio JarvanIV Leona Malphite Maokai Nautilus Rammus Shen Sejuani Singed Sion Zac. Remember, this is PRIMARY listing. There are definitely champs like Braum and TahmKench that can be somewhat tanks.

Either way, most of these characters fall under the same pattern:

Bodyguards, like Shen/Ali/Leona who just act as meat shields/CC bots for other champions. AoE initiators, such as Galio/Amumu/Malph/Zac/Sion/Sejuani who just go in and flail around Single-target killers like Rammus/Blitz/Naut/Jarvan who pick one guy and ruin his day Characters who are played more as AP Bruisers than straight-tanks such as Singed and Cho And the weird Jack-of-all-Trades that is Maokai

If you know how to play Malphite, you can pretty much pick up Zac with little-to-no problem. If you're good at playing Amumu, Sejuani will fit like a glove. It doesn't help that most of these champions have kits so closely tied that they all bring similar things to the table, only with varying flavors of "Do I want to counter armor (Rammus/Malph) or do I want to counter AP (Galio, Maokai)

It ALSO doesn't help that some of these tanks crowd out other characters simply by virtue of having flat damage reduction. Singed has been almost completely removed because he's got flat Armor/MR boosts. Compared to Alistar's ult, that's butter armor. Comparative to how immobile mages are and how tanks are, the mages are in a far better spot in terms of unique gameplay.

#Fixing this: Giving each tank an identity.

##Major Overhauls

I'm just going to be throwing out ideas. Nothing concrete, just possibilities in making each character's kit more defined both gameplay-wise and thematic wise.

  • **Need Rework: Chogath Shen Rammus ** Shen, Rammus and Cho are old. As we know Shen's getting a gameplay update and Cho needs an entire kit overhaul to modernize him, I think those two are off the table for the moment. Rammus is just...basic. Very little skill to his kit, could use a major overhaul? Galio likely falls under this as well but I have an idea or two for him.

  • Move them away from a "tank" role: JarvanIV Maokai Jarvan has always been played as more of a bruiser and Maokai is something of an AP Tanky bruiser. Jarvan is pretty fine as his is, although I'd remove the flat damage reduction on Maokai simply because that's just going to push away other tanks. Maybe increase damage reduction for all the people taking damage in his ult? Not sure.

  • The Combo Tank: Galio Make Galio the tank you pick when you pick for Zyra, MF and Rumble being on the same team. Perhaps his ult passively increases damage dealt to people targeting him and maybe we can remove his giant Armor/MR boost in favor of, say, a taunt. Focus Galio on making him the guy picked for AoE splash damage.

  • The Adapting Tank: Zac Zac's cool but he's just sort of...always "good I guess". Maybe have Zac's revive passive replaced with an adapting tanking style. If Zac dies/takes damage from AD, he gets increased AD resistance. If he gets AP damage, he gains MR. True damage? Reduction to true damage. Make him the guy you pick when there's a balance comp and you need someone who can tank a variety of things.

Also, can we PLEASE give him some CD items? Seriously, Zac's pretty much the only tank who is discouraged from getting CDR items thanks to his lack of mana.

  • The Damage Tank: Sejuani As a barbaric warlord and queen of strength in the Fridgelord, why not focus Sejuani's tanking as the most damage-focused of the tanks. The longer she stays in a fight, the more she gains out of her enemies. Maybe make her chill/frost mechanic slowly stack like Ashes and grant her more power/damage reduction the longer she sticks to targers?

  • The Bodyguard Tank: Alistar What if Alistar could cast headbutt on allies, instantly moving between them and enemies? Maybe remove his trample (Which does piddle damage anyways) and give him some sort of absorbing mechanic for allies or CC breaking for enemies? Also, let's nerf the massive, MASSIVE damage reduction on his ult. Seriously, he'll always flat-out beat other tanks and/or invalidate them because of sheer tanking power in one skill.

##Minor Tweaks

  • The Jack of All Trades Tank: Amumu Amumu's in a pretty good spot. He's got AoE. He's got damage. He has some lockdown and he has a little reduction. Just keep him as this tank who can do a little of everything.

  • The Supportive Tank: Leona The only thing I can really think of is reducing the overall damage on Leona's passive and let her stack it up to 2-3 times. If she hits 3 stacks, it'll automatically deal damage (Giving Leona some solo-ing). Maybe let her gain a tiny armor/mr boost for proccing her passive? I'm not too sure on this one.

  • The Lockdown Tank: Nautilus Perhaps make his passive "mark" a champion. This champion suffers a little more damage, a little more slowing and makes his ult faster on them. The ultimate "Screw this one guy in particular" tank.

  • The DIal-A-Teamfight Tank: Malphite Running out of clever names, sorry. Malph's always been the guy who instantly starts a fight. Let him do that. Take a little damage away, let his ult have a lower CD. If "Instant, fast, strong initiation" is his strength, why not let him own that zone?

  • The Telegraph Tank: Sion Right now, Sion is by far the most telegraphed of tanks. I'd argue that, if he's going to be, at least let him get the most out of it. If Sion hits you with a spell (that's not his E) it should hurt like an SOB. Maybe tweak his passive too? Way less damage, his autos mini-stun enemies or something? It's not that tanky for a, well, tank.

  • The Singed: Singed Just make his armor/mr boost a flat reduction instead. He's really unique and fun as he is right now, doesn't need much to change him up for the better.

#Conclusion

With Poppy's incoming rework, she serves a niche that I don't think we've seen in tanks: The keep away. She doesn't start fights, she decisively stops enemies from starting them. She's amazing in a poke comp but she likely won't do well if she faces a team that can instantly, quickly AoE her entire team before she can keep them away. Why am I bringing this up?

Poppy shows what tanks could be. Clearly defined, clearly different champions who each serve a different purpose and give you clear choices when you take one of them onto the rift. Comparative to immobile mages, they're in a much worse sport in terms of uniqueness...so please, can we look at tanks before we take a crack at mages?

#DISCLAIMER: I AM LIKE GOLD V. I AM NOT GOOD AT THIS GAME. I AM ONLY SUGGESTING BASED ON EXPERIENCES OF PLAYING TANKS AND HOW I FEEL THEY ARE MORE CLUSTERED COMPARATIVE TO IMMOBILE MAGES.

28 Comments

Hawkefire2 votes

Leave Cho alone, he is fine as he is. But I do agree with pretty much the rest of what you say.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

3 Second AoE silence is "Fine"

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

2.5 seconds, actually. It was nerfed some time ago, remember?

What Cho could really use is a bit of a reduction of his Q, W, R AP ratios, to bring them up to modern standards, and a bit more reliability to hit his Q with game time. Just a teeny, tiny bit, though.

As for Feral Scream's targeting issues - those need to be fixed for all cone-based abilities, not just Cho's.

Hawkefire1 votes

Yes, his silence is fine. If they were to do anything to cho, I would say that they should reduce his silence's damage (preferably the ratio), or increase its delay so that people have a bit more time to dodge it.

Sentinel Hydra1 votes

I was too lazy to read this :p can you do a tl;dr please?

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Tanks have a more binary play pattern than immobile mages. Ergo, they should get an update before the mages.

Sentinel Hydra1 votes

While this may be true, tanks have had a pretty solid play style over the past few seasons. However, I do agree with you on that they should be changed in some way to make playing tanks and/or maining them to feel unique and interesting.

Now, time to talk about your champion choices.

**Need Rework:Shen Chogath Rammus **Shen is getting a gameplay update probably in late 2016/early 2017. Cho'gath? Cho'gath needs a change, however I think Cho'gath players like to feeling of being big and just simply stomping on other people that get in his way. All Cho needs is pretty much an easier way to gapclose/remove that annoying feeling of only having 2 abilities when you are being kited. His E and passive could use reworks. For Rammus, I honestly just say delete everything except for the taunt and powerball because those skills are Rammus's main identity.

**Move them away from a "tank" role:Maokai JarvanIV **I agree with you here, although I was thinking buff Maokai's damage but reduce his tankiness to Riven-level, but give him back maybe 1.5 of his current tankiness while his ult is running.

**The Combo Tank: Galio **Agree with you here.

**The Adapting Tank:Zac ** Here. I don't think that Zac's passive should scale off what damage was done to him in the current time, but maybe his blobs could have an altered version version of that. It would be cool if his blobs scaled off his max hp or something, and I was thinking he could also use actives such as Randiun's Omen on his blobs. He could also have another passive giving him cdr based on how tanky he was. Just my suggestions.

**The Damage Tank:Sejuani **I'm conflicted with you here. On the one hand, this is an AWESOME idea. On the other, Seji's playstyle is more bursty than sustained. You ult, dash in, and use your abilities. So I just don't know.

**The Bodyguard Tank: Alistar ** Good idea for casting headbutt on allies. I think that they should move some of his ultimate to his passive so it won't be so weak, and his ult wouldn't be as broken. Maybe when Ali falls below x health, he could gain a nerfed version of his current ult with a cool down. Maybe they could even move his passive to his ult and when activated it "tramples" enemies, stunning them and flattening them in place for a time.

**The Jack of All Trades Tank:Amumu **Not much to say here.

**The Supportive Tank:Leona ** I would recommend just nerfing her damage in the early game, because she can kill the adc solo come level 3 if she has ignite.

**The Lockdown Tank:Nautilus **No ideas on this one that would make sense.

**The DIal-A-Teamfight Tank:Malphite ** He has a strong enough engage, It doesn't need more cdr, but maybe they could buff the area of affect on it a little because sometimes Malphites just whiff their ults and only get one person simply because they didn't know the range of their ult.

**The Telegraph Tank:Sion ** He isn't tank as he is a more CC oriented version of Nasus. He is very telegraphed though, so maybe his E could cause a stun instead of a slow.

**The Singed:Singed **Completely agree.

TLDR: You are absolutely right, tanks should be prioritized higher than mages in the current time. While immobile mages do need an update because of mobility creep, tanks probably need an update more.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sentinel Hydra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FsEfMZFu,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-01T07:04:54.563+0000)

While this may be true, tanks have had a pretty solid play style over the past few seasons. However, I do agree with you on that they should be changed in some way to make playing tanks and/or maining them to feel unique and interesting.

I think the core thing to remember is just because a champion has a solid playstyle doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. See: The Marksmen update or the myriad of support updates they constantly do.

(Don't have anything to contribute to the other areas)

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

Yeah but gut Anivia first

LadyRenly1 votes

lol salty akali main got her shroud ulted by Anivia

disregardable1 votes

I think they're going to focus more on unviable immobile mages, like they did with Marksmen and Juggernauts. Other than a toning down to Annie they might make, I imagine it'd specifically be champions like Ziggs, Zyra, and Karthus.

Ralanr1 votes

I like it. As someone who has been finding himself enjoying the tanking playstyle (I'm unranked) I wouldn't mind seeing some more of this diversity. The main reason I used to hate tanking in league (I play tanks in pretty much every game, it's second nature for me) is because I didn't feel like I was useful when alone. I also really hate the concept of aggro as I don't see it being skillful, I'm just pressing a button to tell them to get over to me.

Your suggestion for Zac seems really powerful (but I'm unranked, so I can't say that with much backing). He seems like he'd dominate soloQ as a tank. I think no champion should be better in soloQ than they are in premades (basically I think any champion should be viable in soloQ). It's an interesting mechanic though.

Sion is my favorite tank. Personally I wish his Q was immune to cancels (like this Darius motherfucker. I really hate how you can't stop it). Though giving him stuns with his autoattacks with his passive might be overkill. If I find myself needing to capitalize on his passive, I buy item 3022.

Isn't Sejuani suppose to be one of the more offensive tanks?

Also, something that bothers me: WHY DO SO MANY TANKS SCALE WITH AP?! By which I mean they have AP scalings in their abilities. I mean hell, Rammus's passive gives him AD for his armor, but all of his abilities scale off AP. Why? Galio gets to build AP from build MR and his abilities scale with AP. Why does Rammus not get this?

RogueWill1 votes

{quoted}

I like it. As someone who has been finding himself enjoying the tanking playstyle (I'm unranked) I wouldn't mind seeing some more of this diversity. The main reason I used to hate tanking in league (I play tanks in pretty much every game, it's second nature for me) is because I didn't feel like I was useful when alone. I also really hate the concept of aggro as I don't see it being skillful, I'm just pressing a button to tell them to get over to me.

Your suggestion for Zac seems really powerful (but I'm unranked, so I can't say that with much backing). He seems like he'd dominate soloQ as a tank. I think no champion should be better in soloQ than they are in premades (basically I think any champion should be viable in soloQ). It's an interesting mechanic though.

Sion is my favorite tank. Personally I wish his Q was immune to cancels (like this Darius motherfucker. I really hate how you can't stop it). Though giving him stuns with his autoattacks with his passive might be overkill. If I find myself needing to capitalize on his passive, I buy item 3022.

Isn't Sejuani suppose to be one of the more offensive tanks?

Also, something that bothers me: WHY DO SO MANY TANKS SCALE WITH AP?! By which I mean they have AP scalings in their abilities. I mean hell, Rammus's passive gives him AD for his armor, but all of his abilities scale off AP. Why? Galio gets to build AP from build MR and his abilities scale with AP. Why does Rammus not get this?

Sejuani she is supposed to but has been nerfed so badly that currently most tanks do way more damage than her... You can still make plays due to her somewhat decent mobility and superb lockdown capabilities but if what you need is damage you are better of with pretty much any other tank.

TeCoolMage1 votes

I seriously think Tahm and Braum are more tanky than Zac, who has % health costs and regains that amount so he doesn't really have a tanky steroid. Unless Anivia's a tank too.

Shen and Rammus are great right now, I think they're just in need of VU and tweaks.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

Just because a champion is good in the current meta doesn't that they're necessarily healthy.

TeCoolMage1 votes

Yes, but Shen and Rammus right now are among the most diverse tanks in terms of role. Leona and Malphite make niche top laners (but are good supports) and supports (but are good top laners) respectively, but Rammus + Shen can flexibly go either.

Rammus's kit is fine as it encourages ADCs to not go blind autoing and Shen's only problem is his Q being a bit weird and confusing. They're my favourite tanks and I can't imagine tanks without the two as they're so iconic

Khell DarkWolf1 votes

I play Sejuani already as an off-tank or Mage Fighter as I put it.

I applaud the idea you suggest, but honestly I don't trust Giving Riot any more ideas to "break" things that didn't need fixing. Cassiopeia

I also already don't enjoy being ram rodded into a playstyle with a champion when I was already playing them another way (Magus Enchantment replaced with Runeglaive) and stripped off choices to be able to continue it (Season 6 masteries).

And for the record, Sejuani feels better doing upfront burst and then transitioning to mild DPS. (80% Burst, 20% DPS)

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

I think a better reason riot chooses mages over tanks is that currently they have better "ground"to work with thanks to the AP item changes they did a while back makes it easier to work on the mages

basically if tanks start first longer time before change>AP comes later,soon i presume

if mages start first shorter time for content>tanks come after but then we already have something new

this is all guessing and assumption

LankPants1 votes

Going off what Riot primarily lists as tanks, we have: Alistar Amumu Blitzcrank Chogath Galio JarvanIV Leona Malphite Maokai Nautilus Rammus Shen Singed Sion Zac. Remember, this is PRIMARY listing. There are definitely champs like Braum and TahmKench that can be somewhat tanks.

I'm 99% sure Sej is primarily listed as a tank, Should probably fix that.

Anyway tanks do have some defined subclasses, it's not always a super clear "this does that" case but it's a lot better than you suggested. You actually got a few of them and I'd say got reasonably close to the rest.

Bodyguards, like Shen/Ali/Leona who just act as meat shields/CC bots for other champions.

This is a class, although I'd argue that Shen doesn't quite fit it. I'd say Naut, Braum and Tham also fit this class fairly well while Maokai, Shen and Ramus fall half way between it and other classes. In Shen's case he's half Fighter, he actually has a lot of traits that resemble Irelia and other similar characters. Maokai falls half way between this class and the Mage Tanks while Ram is half Bruiser Tank.

AoE initiators, such as Galio/Amumu/Malph/Zac/Sion/Sejuani who just go in and flail around

This is two classes, the Mage Tanks and Bruiser Tanks. There's an easy distinction, Mage Tanks tend towards burst while Bruiser Tanks have better sustained damage.

The true Mage Tanks are Cho'gath, Galio and Malphite. Maokai is a hybrid Mage/Bodyguard as was previously mentioned while Zac is a hybrid Bruiser/Mage Tank.

The true Bruiser Tanks are Sejuani and Amumu. Sion and J4 are also hybrid Bruiser/Bruiser Tanks.

Then there's also Blitz/Singed. They're weird champs who don't really fit into subclasses.

That's not to say tanks don't need any work, but there's already a lot of diversity born from the overall hybridification of different types of tanks, although the same can also be said for mages. I don't think there's really a hell of a lot between which class should receive work to be honest.

Also, can we PLEASE give him some CD items? Seriously, Zac's pretty much the only tank who is discouraged from getting CDR items thanks to his lack of mana.

Spirit Visage is a beautiful item. Overall it seems like lack of access to CDR is ment to be a disadvantage of being manaless though.

Changeling1 votes

Leave Maokai alone! Hes my favorite D:

RogueWill1 votes

Although I would love a tanks rework here is the problem....

A. Most armor and magic resist items has been touched at least twice on the last year, so tanks ends up being indirectly reworked. B. Roit has no clear definition between Tanks and tanky champions, similar to it ahs no definition between AD marksman and AP spam-spell champions. According to riot, Azir, Teemo and kennen are considered marksman but wasn't included on the marksman update. They also forgot about Draven which I find funny considering how his entirely personality revolves around adoration.

Randomonium1 votes

I completely agree. There's very little that separates tanks. All that matters is who is the strongest. Very few people play Sejuani anymore because Amumu pretty much does the exact same thing but deals more damage. Same can be said for tons of other tanks.

At least mages feel really distinct from one another. I doubt Riot will do this though because juggernauts got reworked recently and they don't want to have to deal with all the whining that mages are being marginalized and ignored.

iamleburk1 votes

Well there are other classes that also have problems, I guess its up to Riot to decide who should be looked at first. Assassins are pretty unbalanced atm, AP supports can use some love, and there are a lot of junglers who need work (Fiddle, Eve, Kha, Zac/Amumu as mentioned here, Warwick, maybe Nunu)

charcharmunro1 votes

...Thinking on it, I actually see Singed and Shen as kinda sharing a role of the "diversion tanks". They're not somebody you can afford to ignore, they do a fair bit of damage if left unchecked and they can be nigh impossible to actually catch up to. Also their main initiation is "walk through the enemy team".

warpenguin5551 votes

no. mages 1st. then assassins, then tanks. then tank items wont get a bunch of new stuff just for those to get gutted

Professor Ward1 votes

Nauts current passive does not need to be changed it is the single best part of his kit, nothin like 5 roots in 5 seconds, your assessment of him being single target is actually completely backwards (no hate most dont play naut like i do)

Naut is actually the only aoe tank i can think of -passive root that is easy to get on mutliple targets in a teamfight

q-get you into the team/picks/movement

w-aoe on hit damage+hp shield

e-aoe slow/damage

r-aoe knockup

Teridax681 votes

I think a large part of the issues with tanks isn't so much tanks themselves, but fighters who have thus far had so much overlap with tanks that it's been difficult to distinguish between the two: when tanky fighters like Jarvan IV or Renekton can go for a full tanky build, lock down the enemy carries just long enough for them to be taken out, while still dealing more damage than a tank, they tend to overshadow full tanks, whose job is also to lock down enemies, but also trade off personal fighting power in exchange for much larger and more persistent disruption. Diving fighters should probably be encouraged to always build some damage and thereby always be less tanky than tanks, but they should also have their contributions reevaluated slightly: divers are really good at reaching the back line and surviving thereafter, and are thereby more mobile than most tanks, but should likely not be able to ever kill or disrupt enemies so quickly that they'd be better at taking targets out of fights as well as tanks. They should definitely be much better than tanks at dealing damage, and perhaps also enabling damage onto key targets, but there should be a certain point where their lack of persistent CC and top-tier tankiness should really be felt.

I do agree, however, that tanks aren't in a perfect place either, for many of the reasons you mentioned: not only is there a lot of overlap in contributions and gameplay (Amumu and Malphite have very similar teamfight patterns, for example, mostly boiling down to diving in, then pumping out as much point-blank AoE CC and damage as they can), but many tanks mentioned above don't even fully qualify as "real" tanks: many tanky disruptor champions, like Sejuani, Malphite, Singed and Blitzcrank don't really care at all about getting hit or drawing attention to themselves; rather, their tankiness just prevents them from dying too quickly as they do their thing, which isn't really what tanking is about, and many tanks just play like CC-heavy fighters, looking to kill enemies more than to draw their focus away from their allies. While the Juggernaut update set a clear distinction between tanks and tanky DPS bruisers, the definition of what it means to be a tank is still fairly nebulous, and tanking isn't really implemented in the most interesting manner even on several proper tanks (Rammus doesn't even properly attract attention, he just arbitrarily forces champions to hit him). I think Braum and Tahm Kench (bar his current stat-checky issues) are both pretty good examples of how tanking could be implemented well in League: Braum doesn't want to kill anyone, but instead tries to actively put himself in harm's way so that his allies don't have to, and Tahm Kench can constantly take both allies and enemies in and out of fights until he gets dealt with, so there are valid, organic reasons to focus both in a fight, and both are, at their core, focused on disruption and/or protection rather than killing enemies outright (Tahm Kench a little less so, mainly due to his very generous damage). Nautilus feels like a pretty good model of a lockdown tank, Braum's a pretty clear protection tank, and there's probably a niche for AoE disruption tanks that could likely be carved out a little better (Galio, Singed and Zac could probably fit that niche, and Sion likely already fits the bill pretty well), so while the champions you mentioned don't necessarily have to fit 100% along those lines, they would probably benefit from being tweaked along those lines, in addition to the champion-specific changes you mentioned, in order to truly function as tanks.

Hawkefire1 votes

Alright, after reading through your post again while being thoroughly awake, I got a couple caveats with it.

First: Zac is largely fine as he is, the only thing he could really use is a bit of a buff to his passive and maybe some slight damage increases (and I do mean slight, as he already does do a pretty decent amount of damage). His biggest problem right now is the fact that anti-HP is both fairly strong and fairly easy to get. A fair amount of champions in the meta right now do %HP damage, which is the bane of Zac. Although, I do think it would be cool if Riot would give Zac some HP ratios (small ones that is) on his abilities, would give zac a boost of damage as the game goes on, while also not making mage zac too ridiculous.

Chogath : This guy just needs number tweaks if anything. No rework is necessary here at all. If Riot should do anything for him, it would be to either A) Increase the delay on his silence casting and making it a bit more telegraphed (nothing too large here though, as Cho does still need some reliable CC, as his Q is very unreliable).

Rammus : Could probably use a small rework, but personally I also think his kit is largely fine. He is designed to counter champions that primarily autoattack for damage, and he does it very well. The only thing Rammus needs is to have the nerf to his powerball reverted as that nerf was largely unnecessary.

Galio : This guy already is the combo tank. His real problem is tied to his abysmal mana costs and the fact that he has no way to engage on the opponent without flash up. He needs to either get the ability to engage on the opponent without flash (which, I honestly feel would be a bad idea, as Galio's ult is incredibly powerful), or have his mana costs reduced, which I feel would be the much better alternative. Otherwise a full blown kit rework would be necessary, and if that is the case I think they should change his playstyle from the melee ranged caster that pokes you from a decent distance away to one with shorter ranged abilities as right now he feels more like a poke mage than a tank when you are playing him.

Alistar : Personally I always felt it was odd that this guy had no AD ratios on his abilities given how physical his kit is. That and his passive feels quite useless. I'd love it if Riot could rework him into an AD tank, keeping his headbutt and pulverize and changing the rest of his kit, passive included. I would also nerf his headbutts displacement earlygame (in other words, make the displacement scale off the ranks he placed into the ability) to prevent the old insanely powerful jungle alistar from returning (not even towers could save you from his wrath as he headbutted you from under your tower into your lane opponent).

Leona : I strongly agree with you on making her more viable in solo lanes and in giving her a way to proc her own passive (love the idea there btw, pretty neat).

Nautilus : Honestly I think Naut is fine where he is at right now, and is just underplayed. Buffing him would probably only make him overpowered.

Sion : Personally, I think that the nerf to his shield was unnecessary and just made his kit feel clunky (namely the part where they increased the time required to reactivate the ability). If that nerf was reverted I think he would be in a healthy spot.

Singed : I agree, they should change it to flat damage reduction here. His biggest issue though is the huge prevalence of dashes in the game which are pretty much his biggest bane, personally I would say they should give him his tenacity back on his ult that or give him a slow resist here so that he can actually keep up with his vast number of counters.

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